Question about batman for ARM

Question about batman for ARM

[Charles Chien]

Hello developers,



We’re currently trying to install batman-adv on an ARM platform but we
ran into some issues and we would appreciate your help to answer our
questions below:

Is the batman-adv module compatible with an ARM processor (Raspberry PI 4)?



I’m trying to install batman-adv onto an ARM Raspberry PI 4 with a
Debian based Linux distribution (Pop OS). However, when I run
“modprobe batman-adv”, it returns a FATAL error complaining that the
module is not found in the “/lib/modules” directory. Where can I
find/download the “.ko” for batman-adv for the ARM platform?



And if I need to recompile the .ko file for ARM, is there an online
repository where I can find the original source code for the
batman-adv driver?




-- 
Regards,
Charles

Re: Question about batman for ARM

[Sven Eckelmann]

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On Friday, 20 May 2022 08:18:45 CEST Charles Chien wrote:
> We’re currently trying to install batman-adv on an ARM platform but we
> ran into some issues and we would appreciate your help to answer our
> questions below:
> 
> Is the batman-adv module compatible with an ARM processor (Raspberry PI 4)?

There is not just an "ARM" processor. It is a family of various processors.

Anyway, it can be used easily on Raspberry Pi - just make sure that you use a 
good wifi device + driver (+firmware) which actually can communicate over 
IBSS/802.11s (without forwarding enabled) and has no (extreme low) peer limit. 
Unfortunately, you cannot take this for granted.

> I’m trying to install batman-adv onto an ARM Raspberry PI 4 with a
> Debian based Linux distribution (Pop OS). However, when I run
> “modprobe batman-adv”, it returns a FATAL error complaining that the
> module is not found in the “/lib/modules” directory. Where can I
> find/download the “.ko” for batman-adv for the ARM platform?

Ehrm, this is not how this works. You cannot just use a kernel module and hope 
that it works on all kernel (builds) available in the universe. This is also 
why we write following in each batman-adv release news entry: "As the kernel 
module always depends on the Linux kernel it is compiled against, it does not 
make sense to provide binaries on our website. As usual, you will find the 
signed tarballs in our download section:"

Either your distribution has to enable this module in their kernel build or 
you have to get their kernel headers (and build scripts) and then build it 
from scratch. And at least on the default Debian kernel, batman-adv is enabled 
since ages - so no idea why PopOS doesn't ship it

> And if I need to recompile the .ko file for ARM, is there an online
> repository where I can find the original source code for the
> batman-adv driver?

This is mentioned in multiple places on the website. Just to mention a few 
interesting pages:

* https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki
* https://www.open-mesh.org/news/108
* https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki/Download
* https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki/UsingBatmanGit
* https://git.open-mesh.org/
  https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git
* https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/

Kind regards,
	Sven

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RE: Question about batman for ARM

[cchien]

Hi Sven,

Thank you for the quick and informative response.
We will look into your suggestions.

Regards,
Charles
_____________
CreoNex Systems
2625 Townsgate Road, Suite 330
Westlake Village, CA 91320
www.creonexsystems.com
(805) 558-9687
This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly prohibited.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sven Eckelmann <sven@narfation.org> 
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 12:43 AM
To: Charles Chien <cchien@creonexsystems.com>
Cc: b.a.t.m.a.n@lists.open-mesh.org
Subject: Re: Question about batman for ARM

On Friday, 20 May 2022 08:18:45 CEST Charles Chien wrote:
> We’re currently trying to install batman-adv on an ARM platform but we 
> ran into some issues and we would appreciate your help to answer our 
> questions below:
> 
> Is the batman-adv module compatible with an ARM processor (Raspberry PI 4)?

There is not just an "ARM" processor. It is a family of various processors.

Anyway, it can be used easily on Raspberry Pi - just make sure that you use a good wifi device + driver (+firmware) which actually can communicate over IBSS/802.11s (without forwarding enabled) and has no (extreme low) peer limit. 
Unfortunately, you cannot take this for granted.

> I’m trying to install batman-adv onto an ARM Raspberry PI 4 with a 
> Debian based Linux distribution (Pop OS). However, when I run 
> “modprobe batman-adv”, it returns a FATAL error complaining that the 
> module is not found in the “/lib/modules” directory. Where can I 
> find/download the “.ko” for batman-adv for the ARM platform?

Ehrm, this is not how this works. You cannot just use a kernel module and hope that it works on all kernel (builds) available in the universe. This is also why we write following in each batman-adv release news entry: "As the kernel module always depends on the Linux kernel it is compiled against, it does not make sense to provide binaries on our website. As usual, you will find the signed tarballs in our download section:"

Either your distribution has to enable this module in their kernel build or you have to get their kernel headers (and build scripts) and then build it from scratch. And at least on the default Debian kernel, batman-adv is enabled since ages - so no idea why PopOS doesn't ship it

> And if I need to recompile the .ko file for ARM, is there an online 
> repository where I can find the original source code for the 
> batman-adv driver?

This is mentioned in multiple places on the website. Just to mention a few interesting pages:

* https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki
* https://www.open-mesh.org/news/108
* https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki/Download
* https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki/UsingBatmanGit
* https://git.open-mesh.org/
  https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git
* https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/

Kind regards,
	Sven

RE: Question about batman for ARM

[cchien]

Hi Sven,

Thanks for the suggestions.
We were able to get Debian to boot up with batman enabled in raspberry-pi.

We would like to use batman with a custom radio and are trying to figure out what part of the source code we may need to modify to allow batman to work with a custom radio.
Custom radio means that the radio is not a commercial radio, such as wi-fi or Bluetooth.

The comments in the source code are limited and so we are wondering if you could suggest any resources and/or documentations that might provide more information to help us in what we are trying to do?

Regards,
Charles
____________
CreoNex Systems
2625 Townsgate Road, Suite 330 
Westlake Village, CA 91361
www.creonexsystems.com
(805) 558-9687
This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly prohibited.

-----Original Message-----
From: cchien@creonexsystems.com <cchien@creonexsystems.com> 
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 8:51 AM
To: 'Sven Eckelmann' <sven@narfation.org>
Cc: b.a.t.m.a.n@lists.open-mesh.org
Subject: RE: Question about batman for ARM


Hi Sven,

Thank you for the quick and informative response.
We will look into your suggestions.

Regards,
Charles
_____________
CreoNex Systems
2625 Townsgate Road, Suite 330
Westlake Village, CA 91320
www.creonexsystems.com
(805) 558-9687
This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly prohibited.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sven Eckelmann <sven@narfation.org>
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2022 12:43 AM
To: Charles Chien <cchien@creonexsystems.com>
Cc: b.a.t.m.a.n@lists.open-mesh.org
Subject: Re: Question about batman for ARM

On Friday, 20 May 2022 08:18:45 CEST Charles Chien wrote:
> We’re currently trying to install batman-adv on an ARM platform but we 
> ran into some issues and we would appreciate your help to answer our 
> questions below:
> 
> Is the batman-adv module compatible with an ARM processor (Raspberry PI 4)?

There is not just an "ARM" processor. It is a family of various processors.

Anyway, it can be used easily on Raspberry Pi - just make sure that you use a good wifi device + driver (+firmware) which actually can communicate over IBSS/802.11s (without forwarding enabled) and has no (extreme low) peer limit. 
Unfortunately, you cannot take this for granted.

> I’m trying to install batman-adv onto an ARM Raspberry PI 4 with a 
> Debian based Linux distribution (Pop OS). However, when I run 
> “modprobe batman-adv”, it returns a FATAL error complaining that the 
> module is not found in the “/lib/modules” directory. Where can I 
> find/download the “.ko” for batman-adv for the ARM platform?

Ehrm, this is not how this works. You cannot just use a kernel module and hope that it works on all kernel (builds) available in the universe. This is also why we write following in each batman-adv release news entry: "As the kernel module always depends on the Linux kernel it is compiled against, it does not make sense to provide binaries on our website. As usual, you will find the signed tarballs in our download section:"

Either your distribution has to enable this module in their kernel build or you have to get their kernel headers (and build scripts) and then build it from scratch. And at least on the default Debian kernel, batman-adv is enabled since ages - so no idea why PopOS doesn't ship it

> And if I need to recompile the .ko file for ARM, is there an online 
> repository where I can find the original source code for the 
> batman-adv driver?

This is mentioned in multiple places on the website. Just to mention a few interesting pages:

* https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki
* https://www.open-mesh.org/news/108
* https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki/Download
* https://www.open-mesh.org/projects/open-mesh/wiki/UsingBatmanGit
* https://git.open-mesh.org/
  https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git
* https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/

Kind regards,
	Sven

Re: Question about batman for ARM

[Sven Eckelmann]

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On Friday, 17 June 2022 10:41:46 CEST cchien@creonexsystems.com wrote:
[...]
> We would like to use batman with a custom radio and are trying to figure out what part of the source code we may need to modify to allow batman to work with a custom radio.
> Custom radio means that the radio is not a commercial radio, such as wi-fi or Bluetooth.

batman-adv (especially with the B.A.T.M.A.N. IV algo) only requires that the 
device itself can transport ethernet frames (with proper unicast and broadcast 
behavior). If you need something else then you either need a virtual interface 
which does the translation from $whatever to ethernet (and back) - or you need 
to reimplement the B.A.T.M.A.N. IV/V algorithms yourself.

Kind regards,
	Sven

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Re: Question about batman for ARM

[Simon Wunderlich]

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On Friday, June 17, 2022 10:45:48 AM CEST Sven Eckelmann wrote:
> On Friday, 17 June 2022 10:41:46 CEST cchien@creonexsystems.com wrote:
> [...]
> 
> > We would like to use batman with a custom radio and are trying to figure
> > out what part of the source code we may need to modify to allow batman to
> > work with a custom radio. Custom radio means that the radio is not a
> > commercial radio, such as wi-fi or Bluetooth.
> batman-adv (especially with the B.A.T.M.A.N. IV algo) only requires that the
> device itself can transport ethernet frames (with proper unicast and
> broadcast behavior). If you need something else then you either need a
> virtual interface which does the translation from $whatever to ethernet
> (and back) - or you need to reimplement the B.A.T.M.A.N. IV/V algorithms
> yourself.

In other words, if your radio comes up as a regular Ethernet interface in 
Linux (like WiFi, for example), then you can easily run batman-adv on top of 
it. If that's not the case, then you can write a driver to present a (virtual) 
interface to the system like Sven suggested.

Cheers,
       Simon

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RE: Question about batman for ARM

[cchien]

Hi Sven,

Thank you for the insight.
We definitely do not want to reimplement BATMAN.
Does BATMAN ADV interfaces with the radio via the network driver or does
BATMAN include the network driver?
Can you provide some guidance on where the network driver or interface to
network driver is located within BATMAN?

Regards,
Charles

-----Original Message-----
From: Sven Eckelmann <sven@narfation.org> 
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 1:46 AM
To: cchien@creonexsystems.com
Cc: b.a.t.m.a.n@lists.open-mesh.org
Subject: Re: Question about batman for ARM

On Friday, 17 June 2022 10:41:46 CEST cchien@creonexsystems.com wrote:
[...]
> We would like to use batman with a custom radio and are trying to figure
out what part of the source code we may need to modify to allow batman to
work with a custom radio.
> Custom radio means that the radio is not a commercial radio, such as wi-fi
or Bluetooth.

batman-adv (especially with the B.A.T.M.A.N. IV algo) only requires that the
device itself can transport ethernet frames (with proper unicast and
broadcast behavior). If you need something else then you either need a
virtual interface which does the translation from $whatever to ethernet (and
back) - or you need to reimplement the B.A.T.M.A.N. IV/V algorithms
yourself.

Kind regards,
	Sven

Re: Question about batman for ARM

[Sven Eckelmann]

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On Monday, 20 June 2022 12:20:19 CEST cchien@creonexsystems.com wrote:
> Does BATMAN ADV interfaces with the radio via the network driver or does
> BATMAN include the network driver?

As said before, it is interfacing with the generic ethernet netdev layer of 
the kernel. For example in:

* https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b890252a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/hard-interface.c#l727
* https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b890252a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/send.c#l108
* https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b890252a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/hard-interface.c#l185

There are a lot of other places when it uses the abstraction interfaces of the 
kernels for ethernet related communication.

For B.A.T.M.A.N. V, it is also trying to get throughput information via 
various generic kernel functionality:

* https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b890252a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/bat_v_elp.c#l67

There is also one detection for wifi interfaces to decide whether broadcast 
messages should be repeated or not:

* https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b890252a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/hard-interface.c#l877


> Can you provide some guidance on where the network driver or interface to
> network driver is located within BATMAN?

It is not talking directly to the driver. It is always using abstraction 
layers. Either the normal network core, ethernet or cfg80211 abstraction 
interfaces. But these don't abstract the requirement for ethernet 
compatibility away - the underlying device must provide this either directly 
or via a wrapper. Just perform a `git grep -e ETH_ -e eth_ -e ethhdr` to
see that it is build around the concept of ethernet packets.

Also things like originators and the complete translation table only works 
with ethernet addresses.

Kind regards,
	Sven

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RE: Question about batman for ARM

[cchien]

Hi Sven,

Thank you for your past suggestions.
We are now looking into getting BATMAN working on a Zynq-7000 Xilinx FPGA.
This FPGA hosts dual-arm A9 cores. We have successfully loaded up Ubuntu on
this platform and it is running
Linux version 4.19.0-xilinx-v2019.2 (oe-user@oe-host) (gcc version 8.2.0
(GCC))

The above line is from cat /proc/version.

Can you point me to a BATMAN installation for this OS and platform? I could
not find any resources online for this.
The way suggested by BATMAN home page does not work for some reason.

Thank you for your help.

Regards,
Charles
_____________
CreoNex Systems
2625 Townsgate Road, Suite 330
Westlake Village, CA 91320
www.creonexsystems.com
(805) 558-9687
This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use
only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally
privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and
is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please
immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any
hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or
distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly prohibited.


-----Original Message-----
From: Sven Eckelmann <sven@narfation.org> 
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 5:51 AM
To: cchien@creonexsystems.com
Cc: b.a.t.m.a.n@lists.open-mesh.org
Subject: Re: Question about batman for ARM

On Monday, 20 June 2022 12:20:19 CEST cchien@creonexsystems.com wrote:
> Does BATMAN ADV interfaces with the radio via the network driver or 
> does BATMAN include the network driver?

As said before, it is interfacing with the generic ethernet netdev layer of
the kernel. For example in:

*
https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b89025
2a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/hard-interface.c#l727
*
https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b89025
2a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/send.c#l108
*
https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b89025
2a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/hard-interface.c#l185

There are a lot of other places when it uses the abstraction interfaces of
the kernels for ethernet related communication.

For B.A.T.M.A.N. V, it is also trying to get throughput information via
various generic kernel functionality:

*
https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b89025
2a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/bat_v_elp.c#l67

There is also one detection for wifi interfaces to decide whether broadcast
messages should be repeated or not:

*
https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b89025
2a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/hard-interface.c#l877


> Can you provide some guidance on where the network driver or interface 
> to network driver is located within BATMAN?

It is not talking directly to the driver. It is always using abstraction
layers. Either the normal network core, ethernet or cfg80211 abstraction
interfaces. But these don't abstract the requirement for ethernet
compatibility away - the underlying device must provide this either directly
or via a wrapper. Just perform a `git grep -e ETH_ -e eth_ -e ethhdr` to see
that it is build around the concept of ethernet packets.

Also things like originators and the complete translation table only works
with ethernet addresses.

Kind regards,
	Sven

Re: Question about batman for ARM

[Moritz Warning]

Hi Charles,

batman-adv is part of the Linux kernel. So it might very well be present on your system already.
But you might need to install batctl package to enable and configure it.

On 11/1/22 19:49, cchien@creonexsystems.com wrote:
> Hi Sven,
>
> Thank you for your past suggestions.
> We are now looking into getting BATMAN working on a Zynq-7000 Xilinx FPGA.
> This FPGA hosts dual-arm A9 cores. We have successfully loaded up Ubuntu on
> this platform and it is running
> Linux version 4.19.0-xilinx-v2019.2 (oe-user@oe-host) (gcc version 8.2.0
> (GCC))
>
> The above line is from cat /proc/version.
>
> Can you point me to a BATMAN installation for this OS and platform? I could
> not find any resources online for this.
> The way suggested by BATMAN home page does not work for some reason.
>
> Thank you for your help.
>
> Regards,
> Charles
> _____________
> CreoNex Systems
> 2625 Townsgate Road, Suite 330
> Westlake Village, CA 91320
> www.creonexsystems.com
> (805) 558-9687
> This message (including any attachments) is for the named addressee(s)'s use
> only. It may contain sensitive, confidential, private proprietary or legally
> privileged information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and
> is protected by law. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> immediately delete it and all copies of it from your system, destroy any
> hard copies of it and notify the sender. Any use, disclosure, copying, or
> distribution of this message and/or any attachments is strictly prohibited.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sven Eckelmann <sven@narfation.org>
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 5:51 AM
> To: cchien@creonexsystems.com
> Cc: b.a.t.m.a.n@lists.open-mesh.org
> Subject: Re: Question about batman for ARM
>
> On Monday, 20 June 2022 12:20:19 CEST cchien@creonexsystems.com wrote:
>> Does BATMAN ADV interfaces with the radio via the network driver or
>> does BATMAN include the network driver?
>
> As said before, it is interfacing with the generic ethernet netdev layer of
> the kernel. For example in:
>
> *
> https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b89025
> 2a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/hard-interface.c#l727
> *
> https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b89025
> 2a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/send.c#l108
> *
> https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b89025
> 2a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/hard-interface.c#l185
>
> There are a lot of other places when it uses the abstraction interfaces of
> the kernels for ethernet related communication.
>
> For B.A.T.M.A.N. V, it is also trying to get throughput information via
> various generic kernel functionality:
>
> *
> https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b89025
> 2a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/bat_v_elp.c#l67
>
> There is also one detection for wifi interfaces to decide whether broadcast
> messages should be repeated or not:
>
> *
> https://git.open-mesh.org/batman-adv.git/blob/caa1eb0cf7bf8ebfe43bba06b89025
> 2a865efa91:/net/batman-adv/hard-interface.c#l877
>
>
>> Can you provide some guidance on where the network driver or interface
>> to network driver is located within BATMAN?
>
> It is not talking directly to the driver. It is always using abstraction
> layers. Either the normal network core, ethernet or cfg80211 abstraction
> interfaces. But these don't abstract the requirement for ethernet
> compatibility away - the underlying device must provide this either directly
> or via a wrapper. Just perform a `git grep -e ETH_ -e eth_ -e ethhdr` to see
> that it is build around the concept of ethernet packets.
>
> Also things like originators and the complete translation table only works
> with ethernet addresses.
>
> Kind regards,
> 	Sven

Re: Question about batman for ARM

[Sven Eckelmann]

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On Tuesday, 1 November 2022 19:49:54 CET cchien@creonexsystems.com wrote:
> We are now looking into getting BATMAN working on a Zynq-7000 Xilinx FPGA.
> This FPGA hosts dual-arm A9 cores. We have successfully loaded up Ubuntu on
> this platform and it is running
> Linux version 4.19.0-xilinx-v2019.2 (oe-user@oe-host) (gcc version 8.2.0
> (GCC))

I don't know what this should be. It is not an ubuntu kernel (more like an 
openembedded kernel). So you might have to get in contact with whoever 
provided you with this kernel and ask them how to build externel kernel 
modules against this kernel. They hopefully have some linux-headers package 
which you can install and then build some kernel modules against it.

And if it is openembedded (with yocto) then you can either try to update
these recipes (which are using ancient batman-adv versions):

https://github.com/jhaws1982/meta-batman

Or simply enable CONFIG_BATMAN_ADV (and related symbols) in your kernel 
configuration which you are using to build this kernel. It will not be
the most recent batman-adv version but better than nothing.

Kind regards,
	Sven

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