[Buildroot] OT: ideas for embedded computers?

[Buildroot] OT: ideas for embedded computers?

[Kyle Hayes]

Sorry for the off topic post, but this list seems to have a lot of people
who might be able to help me.

We are currently using DMP/ICop's eBox 3300 series of computers.  These are
tiny, fan-less, x86-based systems.  Overall, they are pretty good.  Very low
power (5W) and a nice big metal heat sink as the top part of the case.
Cheap too, US$150 or so.

However, I'm increasingly convinced that there are hardware issues.  The SoC
this is based off of seems to have problems with the EHCI controller and I
have completely unexplained reboots on systems that are on UPS power.  I
have found reference to other hardware problems on various web sites.  While
the drivers are all in the latest Linux kernels, it is clear that the
platform is not supported.  A few weeks ago I posted to the list when I was
trying to get a Buildroot image made for these machines and was having
trouble with OpenSSH.  Debugging did not work and a poster on this list said
that he was unable to use GDB with later kernels.  I was never able to get
OpenSSH running, but Dropbear worked.

I have investigated the SheevaPlug and the GuruPlug parts from Global Scale
Tech.  Unfortunately, it appears that Global Scale does not have good
engineers and is too willing to cut costs.   I have found many reports of
thermal problems with the GuruPlug and reports that the later version of the
SheevaPlug suffer from substandard component quality (power supplies burning
out in less than a year).  The price is nice though: US $99.

Our application is "mild industrial".  Our systems are installed in existing
telephone closets etc. where there is little ventilation but temperatures in
the buildings are kept for human comfort.  Generally the environment is not
above 25C.

We need one Ethernet port (10/100 is all we need) and one USB1 standard
plug.  We need enough CPU to run things like OpenVPN and 8-16MB of RAM after
the OS loads.  We currently use Linux.  Under normal load our current
systems are using around 1% of the CPU time (1GHz i486-class processor).

Does anyone have alternatives that are less than US$250?

We now return you to your normally scheduled program.

Best,
Kyle
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/buildroot/attachments/20110223/be3a168c/attachment.html>

[Buildroot] OT: ideas for embedded computers?

[Charles Krinke]

A shoebox full of BeagleBoards perhaps?

On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Kyle Hayes <kyle@greenmonitor.com> wrote:

> Sorry for the off topic post, but this list seems to have a lot of people
> who might be able to help me.
>
> We are currently using DMP/ICop's eBox 3300 series of computers.  These are
> tiny, fan-less, x86-based systems.  Overall, they are pretty good.  Very low
> power (5W) and a nice big metal heat sink as the top part of the case.
> Cheap too, US$150 or so.
>
> However, I'm increasingly convinced that there are hardware issues.  The
> SoC this is based off of seems to have problems with the EHCI controller and
> I have completely unexplained reboots on systems that are on UPS power.  I
> have found reference to other hardware problems on various web sites.  While
> the drivers are all in the latest Linux kernels, it is clear that the
> platform is not supported.  A few weeks ago I posted to the list when I was
> trying to get a Buildroot image made for these machines and was having
> trouble with OpenSSH.  Debugging did not work and a poster on this list said
> that he was unable to use GDB with later kernels.  I was never able to get
> OpenSSH running, but Dropbear worked.
>
> I have investigated the SheevaPlug and the GuruPlug parts from Global Scale
> Tech.  Unfortunately, it appears that Global Scale does not have good
> engineers and is too willing to cut costs.   I have found many reports of
> thermal problems with the GuruPlug and reports that the later version of the
> SheevaPlug suffer from substandard component quality (power supplies burning
> out in less than a year).  The price is nice though: US $99.
>
> Our application is "mild industrial".  Our systems are installed in
> existing telephone closets etc. where there is little ventilation but
> temperatures in the buildings are kept for human comfort.  Generally the
> environment is not above 25C.
>
> We need one Ethernet port (10/100 is all we need) and one USB1 standard
> plug.  We need enough CPU to run things like OpenVPN and 8-16MB of RAM after
> the OS loads.  We currently use Linux.  Under normal load our current
> systems are using around 1% of the CPU time (1GHz i486-class processor).
>
> Does anyone have alternatives that are less than US$250?
>
> We now return you to your normally scheduled program.
>
> Best,
> Kyle
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> buildroot mailing list
> buildroot at busybox.net
> http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot
>



-- 
Charles Krinke
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/buildroot/attachments/20110223/aca527c9/attachment.html>

[Buildroot] OT: ideas for embedded computers?

[Michael J. Hammel]

On Wed, 2011-02-23 at 15:27 -0800, Charles Krinke wrote:
> A shoebox full of BeagleBoards perhaps?

Be sure its an xM.  The older C4 and earlier don't have the eth port.

Also, BeagleBoard is not intended for production volume so its
suitability depends on the quantities you need. Check with the
BeagleBoard guys.  They have the schematics available if you want to
organize your own production runs.
http://beagleboard.org

-- 
Michael J. Hammel <buildroot@graphics-muse.org>

[Buildroot] OT: ideas for embedded computers?

[Michael S. Zick]

On Wed February 23 2011, Kyle Hayes wrote:
> Our application is "mild industrial". ?Our systems are installed in existing
> telephone closets etc. where there is little ventilation but temperatures in
> the buildings are kept for human comfort. ?Generally the environment is not
> above 25C.
> 

Oops -
That certainly must depend on what part of the world your product is in.

A (telephone) equipment closet is rarely serviced by the building's HVAC
and in the USA the design point used in the telephone industry is 140F (60C).

Plus, in areas where energy conservation is a concern, HVAC systems are turned
off or set to minimum outside of "office hours" (like weekends).

Since the lifetime of a silicon device is halved by every 10C increase in
operating temperature. . . .
Save yourself a lot of product grief by setting your maximum temperature
design point higher, a lot higher than 25C.

Mike
PS: If you keep your off-site backups on CD in a bank vault -
It is rare that bank vaults have HVAC - your CDs are probably melting
every summer weekend.

[Buildroot] OT: ideas for embedded computers?

[bruce bushby]

There is also Pandaboard (http://pandaboard.org/)



On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 12:26 PM, Michael S. Zick <minimod@morethan.org>wrote:

> On Wed February 23 2011, Kyle Hayes wrote:
> > Our application is "mild industrial".  Our systems are installed in
> existing
> > telephone closets etc. where there is little ventilation but temperatures
> in
> > the buildings are kept for human comfort.  Generally the environment is
> not
> > above 25C.
> >
>
> Oops -
> That certainly must depend on what part of the world your product is in.
>
> A (telephone) equipment closet is rarely serviced by the building's HVAC
> and in the USA the design point used in the telephone industry is 140F
> (60C).
>
> Plus, in areas where energy conservation is a concern, HVAC systems are
> turned
> off or set to minimum outside of "office hours" (like weekends).
>
> Since the lifetime of a silicon device is halved by every 10C increase in
> operating temperature. . . .
> Save yourself a lot of product grief by setting your maximum temperature
> design point higher, a lot higher than 25C.
>
> Mike
> PS: If you keep your off-site backups on CD in a bank vault -
> It is rare that bank vaults have HVAC - your CDs are probably melting
> every summer weekend.
> _______________________________________________
> buildroot mailing list
> buildroot at busybox.net
> http://lists.busybox.net/mailman/listinfo/buildroot
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.busybox.net/pipermail/buildroot/attachments/20110224/a726a63a/attachment.html>

[Buildroot] OT: ideas for embedded computers?

[Kyle Hayes]

See below.

On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 4:26 AM, Michael S. Zick <minimod@morethan.org> wrote:
> On Wed February 23 2011, Kyle Hayes wrote:
>> Our application is "mild industrial". ?Our systems are installed in existing
>> telephone closets etc. where there is little ventilation but temperatures in
>> the buildings are kept for human comfort. ?Generally the environment is not
>> above 25C.
>>
>
> Oops -
> That certainly must depend on what part of the world your product is in.
>
> A (telephone) equipment closet is rarely serviced by the building's HVAC
> and in the USA the design point used in the telephone industry is 140F (60C).
>
> Plus, in areas where energy conservation is a concern, HVAC systems are turned
> off or set to minimum outside of "office hours" (like weekends).

It is in hotels and they usually have a telephone closet that is
somewhat ventilated or they are so low-tech that the telephone switch
etc. is in the basement storage room which is often a stable
temperature.  The worst situation we had was a installation where the
system was put in the laundry room right over the industrial dryer.
We moved it :-)

Our biggest problems are power stability.  Luckily a cheap UPS costs
very little and will drive our system for hours.  Most hotels have
very overloaded power systems.

> Since the lifetime of a silicon device is halved by every 10C increase in
> operating temperature. . . .
> Save yourself a lot of product grief by setting your maximum temperature
> design point higher, a lot higher than 25C.

It isn't a design point, it is what we've measured as being our
highest general temperature in most cases.

All data is pushed out remotely to several servers in a couple
different hosting locations that are nicely cooled and separately
backed up.  We do not have any problems with data loss.  Our current
problems are too much data :-)  We get a lot of telemetry.

Best,
Kyle

[Buildroot] OT: ideas for embedded computers?

[Kyle Hayes]

In order to keep the OT traffic low, here is a synopsis of the systems
that were recommended by posters on the list and from other sources:

Torbj?rn:
VIA ARTiGO -based systems that his company sells, they look nice!

Charles/Micheal:
BeagleBoard (newer, not older)

Bruce:
Pandaboard (http://pandaboard.org/)

Mike:
http://www.aaeon.com.tw/ENS_Newsletter_eNews_260_20218_TW.html

From other sources I got:

Medallion/Techsol (http://medallionsystem.com/computers/index.html)

Technologic Systems (http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/arm-sbc.php)

The last one came with solid recommendations about pricing,
flexibility and their policy of never sunsetting products unless it is
not avoidable.

All these systems look pretty good.  Now the problem is figuring out
which ones to sample and playing with them for while!

I am fairly surprised that there are no reasonably priced Intel Atom
or AMD Brazos systems.  It seems like those chips would do well in
lower power environments.  I found some Mini-ITX boards, but they were
not competitive with the ARM boards for power and form factor.  There
were a few MIPS systems, mostly Loongson-based MIPS clones out of
various Chinese companies.  Support and reliability information for
those is either non-existent or extremely hard to find.  Since ARM is
so dominant in cell phones and tablets, I think it will push MIPS out.
 However, the Chinese have the political will to force their MIPS
clones on their own companies and Loongson is a pretty nice chip.  It
does not look like they have achieved the same level of integration
that the ARM systems have though.

Thanks for all your help!

Best,
Kyle