[Buildroot] Virtual/online Buildroot Developers meeting ?

[Buildroot] Virtual/online Buildroot Developers meeting ?

[Thomas Petazzoni]

Hello all,

I hope everyone in the Buildroot community has been going (so far at
least) through the COVID crisis without problems.

We had our last Buildroot Developers Meeting in February, but it is now
becoming pretty clear that the next physical Buildroot Developers
Meeting is not going to happen in the near future. The traditional
"Buildroot summer camp" organized by the core maintainers/developers is
not going to happen this year. And the Buildroot Developers Meeting
that traditionally takes place before ELC-E will not happen either, as
ELC-E 2020 will be a virtual event.

The issue I see with this is that those meetings have always been very
useful in making progress through the backlog of patches, especially by
having discussions on some of complex topics and taking decisions.

As all those physical things (work, conferences, meetings) are now
replaced by virtual/online ones, I'm wondering if we should do the same
for the Buildroot Developers Meeting.

Questions are:

 - Who would be interested ?

 - What format should it take ? One full day once in a while ? Just a
   few hours here and there ? Multiple days in a row ?

 - What technical solution do we use ? Is it just about agreeing to all
   be on IRC at the same time ? Or do we need a video conferencing
   solution ? Most of our meetings are multiple side discussions taking
   place at the same time, which doesn't really map well with a single
   video conference.

Let me know what you think.

Thomas
-- 
Thomas Petazzoni, CTO, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
https://bootlin.com

[Buildroot] Virtual/online Buildroot Developers meeting ?

[Yann E. MORIN]

Thomas, All,

On 2020-07-11 16:53 +0200, Thomas Petazzoni spake thusly:
> We had our last Buildroot Developers Meeting in February, but it is now
> becoming pretty clear that the next physical Buildroot Developers
> Meeting is not going to happen in the near future. The traditional
> "Buildroot summer camp" organized by the core maintainers/developers is
> not going to happen this year. And the Buildroot Developers Meeting
> that traditionally takes place before ELC-E will not happen either, as
> ELC-E 2020 will be a virtual event.

Yes, this whole situation is sad.

> The issue I see with this is that those meetings have always been very
> useful in making progress through the backlog of patches, especially by
> having discussions on some of complex topics and taking decisions.
> 
> As all those physical things (work, conferences, meetings) are now
> replaced by virtual/online ones, I'm wondering if we should do the same
> for the Buildroot Developers Meeting.
> 
> Questions are:
>  - Who would be interested ?

I would.

>  - What format should it take ? One full day once in a while ? Just a
>    few hours here and there ? Multiple days in a row ?

My preference would be to block two or more days in a row. Sun-Mon ro
Sun-Tue would be ideal for me, but I can adapt.

>  - What technical solution do we use ? Is it just about agreeing to all
>    be on IRC at the same time ? Or do we need a video conferencing
>    solution ? Most of our meetings are multiple side discussions taking
>    place at the same time, which doesn't really map well with a single
>    video conference.

This is indeed very tricky. We will probably have to adapt depending on
how many of us are attending.

Also, maybe just audio would be enough (I find video to not be that
interesting in the end, when all we need is discussion).

However, a way to share one's desktop (or an application) would be most
important. A white board too, maybe...

Regards,
Yann E. MORIN.

-- 
.-----------------.--------------------.------------------.--------------------.
|  Yann E. MORIN  | Real-Time Embedded | /"\ ASCII RIBBON | Erics' conspiracy: |
| +33 662 376 056 | Software  Designer | \ / CAMPAIGN     |  ___               |
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'------------------------------^-------^------------------^--------------------'

[Buildroot] Virtual/online Buildroot Developers meeting ?

[Arnout Vandecappelle]

 Hi all,

 [Yes, I'm still alive :-) ]

 Mostly +1 to everything here.

On 11/07/2020 18:56, Yann E. MORIN wrote:
> Thomas, All,
> 
> On 2020-07-11 16:53 +0200, Thomas Petazzoni spake thusly:
[snip]
>> Questions are:
>>  - Who would be interested ?
> 
> I would.

 +1

>>  - What format should it take ? One full day once in a while ? Just a
>>    few hours here and there ? Multiple days in a row ?
> 
> My preference would be to block two or more days in a row. Sun-Mon ro
> Sun-Tue would be ideal for me, but I can adapt.

 I also think it's easier to organise at least one and maybe several days in a
row. For that, you clear your calendar, while if it's just for a couple of hours
you tend not to do the effort.


>>  - What technical solution do we use ? Is it just about agreeing to all
>>    be on IRC at the same time ? Or do we need a video conferencing
>>    solution ? Most of our meetings are multiple side discussions taking
>>    place at the same time, which doesn't really map well with a single
>>    video conference.
> 
> This is indeed very tricky. We will probably have to adapt depending on
> how many of us are attending.

 Not so tricky at all. Zoom has breakout rooms, and in the other technologies
you can easily create a new room and switch to it. I have even done two meetings
in parallel once, but that eats away CPU like there's no tomorrow.


> Also, maybe just audio would be enough (I find video to not be that
> interesting in the end, when all we need is discussion).

 +1. I don't mind the video, but I don't feel it's really necessary. The only
advantage is that people can see when you go away for a minute and you don't
need to announce it.


> However, a way to share one's desktop (or an application) would be most
> important. A white board too, maybe...

 Shared desktop is absolutely required. But all meeting software supports that.


 Here are the candidates that I've used and think are suitable (in no particular
order):

- jitsi
- zoom
- Google meet
- discord
- whereby


 Regards,
 Arnout

[Buildroot] Virtual/online Buildroot Developers meeting ?

[Thomas Petazzoni]

On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 09:45:43 +0200
Arnout Vandecappelle <arnout@mind.be> wrote:

>  [Yes, I'm still alive :-) ]

Awesome, some of us were wondering ! :-)

> >>  - What format should it take ? One full day once in a while ? Just a
> >>    few hours here and there ? Multiple days in a row ?  
> > 
> > My preference would be to block two or more days in a row. Sun-Mon ro
> > Sun-Tue would be ideal for me, but I can adapt.  
> 
>  I also think it's easier to organise at least one and maybe several days in a
> row. For that, you clear your calendar, while if it's just for a couple of hours
> you tend not to do the effort.

On my side, I agree that doing full days is going to be easier than
just a few hours here and there. It also allows to focus on something a
bit more complex than what can be done in just 2-3 hours.

However, the question is whether we want a few full days spread over
time, or grouped together. Or perhaps just have 2 meetings of 2 days
each, a few weeks apart ?

> > This is indeed very tricky. We will probably have to adapt depending on
> > how many of us are attending.  
> 
>  Not so tricky at all. Zoom has breakout rooms, and in the other technologies
> you can easily create a new room and switch to it. I have even done two meetings
> in parallel once, but that eats away CPU like there's no tomorrow.

Indeed, you can always switch to a different meeting room, but it's
then really separate. Unlike in a real room where it's possible to have
side discussions while still having everyone "hear" those discussions,
with the ability to jump in.

But anyway, there's no way we will be able to fully emulate a physical
meeting.

Maybe one thing we should do is prepare the meeting a bit better,
especially with a list of topics / patch series to discuss. We then
spent some time discussing each topic to take a bunch of decisions,
assign each topic to someone, go back to our keyboards and get the work
done ?

>  Shared desktop is absolutely required. But all meeting software supports that.
> 
>  Here are the candidates that I've used and think are suitable (in no particular
> order):
> 
> - jitsi
> - zoom
> - Google meet
> - discord
> - whereby

If that's needed, Bootlin has its own Jitsi installation, which we can
use. We've used it successfully to deliver 4 hours training courses,
over several days, and it works fine.

Thomas
-- 
Thomas Petazzoni, CTO, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
https://bootlin.com

[Buildroot] Virtual/online Buildroot Developers meeting ?

[Peter Korsgaard]

>>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Petazzoni <thomas.petazzoni@bootlin.com> writes:

 > On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 09:45:43 +0200
 > Arnout Vandecappelle <arnout@mind.be> wrote:

 >> [Yes, I'm still alive :-) ]

 > Awesome, some of us were wondering ! :-)

So am I, sorry about the slow response.


 >> >>  - What format should it take ? One full day once in a while ? Just a
 >> >>    few hours here and there ? Multiple days in a row ?  
 >> > 
 >> > My preference would be to block two or more days in a row. Sun-Mon ro
 >> > Sun-Tue would be ideal for me, but I can adapt.  
 >> 
 >> I also think it's easier to organise at least one and maybe several days in a
 >> row. For that, you clear your calendar, while if it's just for a couple of hours
 >> you tend not to do the effort.

 > On my side, I agree that doing full days is going to be easier than
 > just a few hours here and there. It also allows to focus on something a
 > bit more complex than what can be done in just 2-3 hours.

Indeed.

 > However, the question is whether we want a few full days spread over
 > time, or grouped together. Or perhaps just have 2 meetings of 2 days
 > each, a few weeks apart ?

I think 1, max 2 days is easiest to plan in. I have some free time late
next week / early the week after, and will be away on holiday from 30/7
to 14/8.

 >> Here are the candidates that I've used and think are suitable (in no particular
 >> order):
 >> 
 >> - jitsi
 >> - zoom
 >> - Google meet
 >> - discord
 >> - whereby

 > If that's needed, Bootlin has its own Jitsi installation, which we can
 > use. We've used it successfully to deliver 4 hours training courses,
 > over several days, and it works fine.

I don't really have any preferences.

-- 
Bye, Peter Korsgaard

[Buildroot] Virtual/online Buildroot Developers meeting ?

[Matthew Weber]

On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 2:25 PM Peter Korsgaard <peter@korsgaard.com> wrote:
>
> >>>>> "Thomas" == Thomas Petazzoni <thomas.petazzoni@bootlin.com> writes:
>
>  > On Mon, 13 Jul 2020 09:45:43 +0200
>  > Arnout Vandecappelle <arnout@mind.be> wrote:
>
>  >> [Yes, I'm still alive :-) ]
>
>  > Awesome, some of us were wondering ! :-)
>
> So am I, sorry about the slow response.
>
>
>  >> >>  - What format should it take ? One full day once in a while ? Just a
>  >> >>    few hours here and there ? Multiple days in a row ?
>  >> >
>  >> > My preference would be to block two or more days in a row. Sun-Mon ro
>  >> > Sun-Tue would be ideal for me, but I can adapt.
>  >>
>  >> I also think it's easier to organise at least one and maybe several days in a
>  >> row. For that, you clear your calendar, while if it's just for a couple of hours
>  >> you tend not to do the effort.
>
>  > On my side, I agree that doing full days is going to be easier than
>  > just a few hours here and there. It also allows to focus on something a
>  > bit more complex than what can be done in just 2-3 hours.
>
> Indeed.
>
>  > However, the question is whether we want a few full days spread over
>  > time, or grouped together. Or perhaps just have 2 meetings of 2 days
>  > each, a few weeks apart ?
>
> I think 1, max 2 days is easiest to plan in. I have some free time late
> next week / early the week after, and will be away on holiday from 30/7
> to 14/8.

Thanks Yann for setting up a framadate  (copied over from IRC)

https://framadate.org/QHX1utJxbZyOnlC7