* Dash's web presence @ 2011-03-08 7:23 Dan Muresan 2011-03-08 7:38 ` Jonathan Nieder 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Dan Muresan @ 2011-03-08 7:23 UTC (permalink / raw) To: dash Where is dash's homepage? This is what a reasonably diligent Google investigation turns up: http://gondor.apana.org.au/~herbert/dash/ Does it look like a major project's page? Does the URL even look stable? Going further, where is dash's mailing list? The link on that "homepage" points to a read-only archive. I was eventually able to sign up for this list after extraordinary contortions (including tracking down a list member by their name). Why did I sign up for this list? I wanted to report a bug. By the way, where is dash's bug tracker? For the default Debian /bin/sh, I would expect a more dignified web presence and a more transparent development. -- Dan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Dash's web presence 2011-03-08 7:23 Dash's web presence Dan Muresan @ 2011-03-08 7:38 ` Jonathan Nieder 2011-03-08 8:08 ` Dan Muresan 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Jonathan Nieder @ 2011-03-08 7:38 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dan Muresan; +Cc: dash Hi, Some quick answers. Dan Muresan wrote: > Does it look like a major project's page? Does the URL even look stable? Yes, to me it does. Lots of low-level tools with single maintainers have pages like that --- e.g., http://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.html Was it lacking some information you needed? Do you know someone willing to buy up dash dot org to make it redirect there? > Going further, where is dash's mailing list? The link on that > "homepage" points to a read-only archive. This complaint I agree with. It might be a good idea to let Herbert know so he can change the link to point to http://vger.kernel.org/vger-lists.html#dash > Why did I sign up for this list? I wanted to report a bug. By the way, > where is dash's bug tracker? A bug tracker makes no sense if no one is maintaining it. Do you know someone interested in doing that work? > For the default Debian /bin/sh, Debian has a bug tracker. > I would expect a more dignified web presence Do you know anyone interested in making a new web site? That's how many projects got their fancy pages --- someone had a better idea for what the webpage should look like and the original page was changed to redirect to their page. See for example http://mercurial.selenic.com/thepage/ > and a more transparent development. I haven't noticed development going on behind doors. What does this even mean? Patches get sent to the list, discussed on the list, then committed to the git repository. Hope that clarifies some things. Jonathan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Dash's web presence 2011-03-08 7:38 ` Jonathan Nieder @ 2011-03-08 8:08 ` Dan Muresan 2011-03-08 8:42 ` Jonathan Nieder 2011-03-08 14:48 ` Eric Blake 0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Dan Muresan @ 2011-03-08 8:08 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jonathan Nieder; +Cc: dash > have pages like that --- e.g., > > http://invisible-island.net/xterm/xterm.html xterm is now a niche project used by a small minority. Even I use urxvtcd. Debian's X11 doesn't even require xterm. > Was it lacking some information you needed? Do you know someone Only the most essential things: how to send mail to the list and how to report bugs. > willing to buy up dash dot org to make it redirect there? Sourceforge? Google Code? Berlioz? > A bug tracker makes no sense if no one is maintaining it. Do you know So you admit that the dash community is not up to maintaining a bug tracker... Shall we go over the advantages of a BTS in ensuring bugs aren't forgotten, capturing the lifecycle of a bug, organizing follow-up, offering a template for bug reporters, providing a "big picture" for developers etc? I would be happy to detail these points for anyone who thinks a mailing list is equivalent to a BTS (or just read Joel on Software, he's already done this work). > Debian has a bug tracker. ... and when they do get off the couch and want to push a report upstream, where do they go? To this list, where bug reports can get lost between == discussions, nothing gets filed in an organized manner, and tracking a bug's status means leafing through pages of archives? >> I would expect a more dignified web presence > > Do you know anyone interested in making a new web site? That's how Again, Sourceforge, Google and a myriad of others would be happy to set up a project page, accessible mailing list and BTS for free. >> and a more transparent development. > > I haven't noticed development going on behind doors. What does this > even mean? Patches get sent to the list, discussed on the list, then > committed to the git repository. A read-only mailing list and non-existent BTS is transparent? How can users report bugs? How can they track what happened to a bug? How can they participate in discussions? Oh, you do have a GIT repository. Kudos for that. -- Dan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Dash's web presence 2011-03-08 8:08 ` Dan Muresan @ 2011-03-08 8:42 ` Jonathan Nieder 2011-03-08 9:02 ` Dan Muresan 2011-03-08 14:48 ` Eric Blake 1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Jonathan Nieder @ 2011-03-08 8:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dan Muresan; +Cc: dash Hi again, Dan Muresan wrote: > A read-only mailing list and non-existent BTS is transparent? How can > users report bugs? How can they track what happened to a bug? How can > they participate in discussions? I forgot to mention: thanks for reporting bugs! You may or may not have noticed that there are not as many people hacking on dash as one would like, but it is useful to users and developers alike to learn about existing problems. The word "transparent" has an implied subtext that there is something happening concerning these bugs elsewhere --- perhaps a hidden bugtracker. There isn't. And I should say: I am very new to working on this shell myself. A little while ago I started working on patches to update src/TOUR to more closely match current reality; maybe it's time to send those out and get some review. So thanks for caring. Regards, Jonathan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Dash's web presence 2011-03-08 8:42 ` Jonathan Nieder @ 2011-03-08 9:02 ` Dan Muresan 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Dan Muresan @ 2011-03-08 9:02 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jonathan Nieder; +Cc: dash Hi, > The word "transparent" has an implied subtext that there is something > happening concerning these bugs elsewhere --- perhaps a hidden Sorry, didn't mean anything like that. In fact, most problems seem to originate in the web page: if it simply said "we don't have a bugtracker, please send mail" and "this is where you can send mail", things would be much clearer (though, in my opinion, still in need of improvement). And sorry if I was being a bit abrasive -- I just wanted to make sure people "wake up" and realize that being the default shell brings some responsibilities. Shell programming can be frustrating even without bugs, but when bugs appear, options tend to narrow to using perl / python even when one doesn't want to depend on them. And shell bugs linger in distros for many, many years after they are fixed. -- Dan ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: Dash's web presence 2011-03-08 8:08 ` Dan Muresan 2011-03-08 8:42 ` Jonathan Nieder @ 2011-03-08 14:48 ` Eric Blake 1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Eric Blake @ 2011-03-08 14:48 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dan Muresan; +Cc: Jonathan Nieder, dash [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 378 bytes --] On 03/08/2011 01:08 AM, Dan Muresan wrote: > Oh, you do have a GIT repository. Kudos for that. And when you consider that bash lacks even a public repository, and your only recourse is massive inter-version diffs, dash is already worlds ahead in that regards. -- Eric Blake eblake@redhat.com +1-801-349-2682 Libvirt virtualization library http://libvirt.org [-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --] [-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 619 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2011-03-08 14:48 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 6+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2011-03-08 7:23 Dash's web presence Dan Muresan 2011-03-08 7:38 ` Jonathan Nieder 2011-03-08 8:08 ` Dan Muresan 2011-03-08 8:42 ` Jonathan Nieder 2011-03-08 9:02 ` Dan Muresan 2011-03-08 14:48 ` Eric Blake
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