Gui criticism

Gui criticism

[Ram Rachum]

Hello!

This is my first time on this list. I'm a Python developer who's been using git 
for about a year. I generally like it, but I have several gripes about the GUI. 
(My development machine is on Windows XP.) Would specifying these criticisms be 
helpful to you?

Best Wishes,
Ram Rachum.

Re: Gui criticism

[Michael J Gruber]

Ram Rachum venit, vidit, dixit 05.12.2009 19:51:
> Hello!
> 
> This is my first time on this list. I'm a Python developer who's been using git 
> for about a year. I generally like it, but I have several gripes about the GUI. 
> (My development machine is on Windows XP.) Would specifying these criticisms be 
> helpful to you?

No, unless they are specific bug reports.

The main problem is that we have too many GUIs, and the "main" ones are
in tcl/tk which not many people write. So there's a small developer base
for the standard GUI, and the rest prefers to split up and each do their
own GUI rather than work on a coordinated project. (I've tried to change
that before.)

Michael

Re: Gui criticism

[Felipe Contreras]

Hello Ram,

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Ram Rachum <cool-rr@cool-rr.com> wrote:
> This is my first time on this list. I'm a Python developer who's been using git
> for about a year. I generally like it, but I have several gripes about the GUI.
> (My development machine is on Windows XP.) Would specifying these criticisms be
> helpful to you?

I don't think the mailing list is the best place for this, that's why
I just started a project in SourceForge, so that users can post these
kinds of issues in the ideatorrent:
https://sourceforge.net/apps/ideatorrent/git-ux/ideatorrent/

I haven't made the announcement yet, but soon :)

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: Gui criticism

[Martin Langhoff]

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Felipe Contreras
<felipe.contreras@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think the mailing list is the best place for this

Mailing lists and face to face events are _the_ best places.

> I just started a project in SourceForge

A new project is for code. And the existing GUIs need help, your help,
in the already existing mailing lists and codebases they have.

>, so that users can post these
> kinds of issues

In a safe place where developers won't read?

> I haven't made the announcement yet, but soon :)

How about picking an existing git GUI project you're prepared to help,
and... just... help? Code, documentation, screen mockups, graphic art?
Is it too... normal? Maybe too... productive?



m
-- 
 martin.langhoff@gmail.com
 martin@laptop.org -- School Server Architect
 - ask interesting questions
 - don't get distracted with shiny stuff  - working code first
 - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff

Re: Gui criticism

[Junio C Hamano]

Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com> writes:

> I don't think the mailing list is the best place for this, that's why
> I just started a project in SourceForge, so that users can post these
> kinds of issues in the ideatorrent:
> https://sourceforge.net/apps/ideatorrent/git-ux/ideatorrent/

Two issues and a half offhand after entering one:

 - I found the experience of adding an "idea" too clunky and slow.
   Writing a well thought out e-mail can be done in the same time.

 - Although enforcing a minimum structure of "idea" description is a good
   thing to do, I found the current structure presented by that web page
   lacks focus.  It has problem description and a rather broad and vague
   "idea", and it feels to me that it is promoting entering any garbage
   without discussing feasibility, "pros-and-cons" or necessary steps to
   achieve a particular goal.

 - The largest issue of this kind of system is who will be moderating and
   how capable they are.

Re: Gui criticism

[Felipe Contreras]

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 10:14 PM, Junio C Hamano <gitster@pobox.com> wrote:
> Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> I don't think the mailing list is the best place for this, that's why
>> I just started a project in SourceForge, so that users can post these
>> kinds of issues in the ideatorrent:
>> https://sourceforge.net/apps/ideatorrent/git-ux/ideatorrent/
>
> Two issues and a half offhand after entering one:
>
>  - I found the experience of adding an "idea" too clunky and slow.
>   Writing a well thought out e-mail can be done in the same time.

Yeah, I agree; it's too slow right now, but it's the only way I've
found to host some kind of ideastorm.

The difference with e-mails is that ideas get votes, which helps to
find out what users really want:
http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/

Also, the main action to do in this system should be "vote", that's
the action that should be fast.

>  - Although enforcing a minimum structure of "idea" description is a good
>   thing to do, I found the current structure presented by that web page
>   lacks focus.  It has problem description and a rather broad and vague
>   "idea", and it feels to me that it is promoting entering any garbage
>   without discussing feasibility, "pros-and-cons" or necessary steps to
>   achieve a particular goal.

That's why ideas go to a sandbox, and then maintainers approve or reject them.

>  - The largest issue of this kind of system is who will be moderating and
>   how capable they are.

Indeed, that's one issue, but also, it needs a large inflow of votes,
and when popular ideas are identified, then it needs people to
actually implement them.

-- 
Felipe Contreras

Re: Gui criticism

[Junio C Hamano]

Felipe Contreras <felipe.contreras@gmail.com> writes:

> Also, the main action to do in this system should be "vote", that's
> the action that should be fast.

Actually I do not think you would want that, especially as a moderator (I
am assuming that you would be self-appointing to be one).  What will you
do to help a "broad, vague, and infeasible idea" forward when it gets many
votes?

That is why I prefer a system that requires substance when voicing an
opinion ("Yes I like the solution because in addition to the original
problem description it will also help this use case"), and it also is the
reason I tend to ignore e-mails that only say "+1" on this list.

In other words, this is not a democracy, and you do not necessarily want a
democracy that is prone to populism.

Re: Gui criticism

[Marco Costalba]

On Sat, Dec 5, 2009 at 19:51, Ram Rachum <cool-rr@cool-rr.com> wrote:
> Hello!
>
> This is my first time on this list. I'm a Python developer who's been using git
> for about a year. I generally like it, but I have several gripes about the GUI.
> (My development machine is on Windows XP.) Would specifying these criticisms be
> helpful to you?
>

Wrong approach. First do then ask. Is not so polite but is how it
works in real word.  :-)