[alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[Bob Tracy]

Quick background info: I'm having to do a "from scratch" install on my
PWS 433au (miata) due to a SCSI disk failure.

The Debian 9.0 NETINST image (from
"http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/9.0/alpha/iso-cd/") seems to
boot ok from SRM (>>> b dka[device_spec]) and takes me to the usual
"aboot" menu.  Typing "l" to get a list of pre-configured kernels gets
me three items, all of which are designated "n" rather than the expected
"0", "1", "2".  The first kernel seems to be the desired one, as the
other two expect a serial console on ttyS0 and ttyS1 respectively.

Typing "0" at the "aboot" prompt seems to do the right thing as far as
selecting the first item in the list.  The "initrd" loads, and at the
point where a message gets printed out to the effect it's booting the
kernel with the expected options (as listed for the first kernel in the
aboot menu), I get a halt with code 5 (CPU 0 halted), and I'm back at
the SRM prompt.  Completely repeatable.

Before I try the 8.0 NETINST image, if anyone has noticed anything
fundamentally wrong with how I'm trying to boot the 9.0 image, kindly
let me know.

Possibly relevant: I'm using the Radeon video card that was in the
machine when the disk failed.  I have the original TGA video card if the
NETINST kernel can't handle the Radeon, but would rather not have to
swap out the video card if I don't absolutely have to.

Thanks.

--Bob

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[Bob Tracy]

(Dyslexia-related failure on original copy to Michael)

On Fri, Nov 02, 2018 at 01:41:51PM -0500, Bob Tracy wrote:
> Quick background info: I'm having to do a "from scratch" install on my
> PWS 433au (miata) due to a SCSI disk failure.
> 
> The Debian 9.0 NETINST image (from
> "http://cdimage.debian.org/cdimage/ports/9.0/alpha/iso-cd/") seems to
> boot ok from SRM (>>> b dka[device_spec]) and takes me to the usual
> "aboot" menu.  Typing "l" to get a list of pre-configured kernels gets
> me three items, all of which are designated "n" rather than the expected
> "0", "1", "2".  The first kernel seems to be the desired one, as the
> other two expect a serial console on ttyS0 and ttyS1 respectively.
> 
> Typing "0" at the "aboot" prompt seems to do the right thing as far as
> selecting the first item in the list.  The "initrd" loads, and at the
> point where a message gets printed out to the effect it's booting the
> kernel with the expected options (as listed for the first kernel in the
> aboot menu), I get a halt with code 5 (CPU 0 halted), and I'm back at
> the SRM prompt.  Completely repeatable.
> 
> Before I try the 8.0 NETINST image, if anyone has noticed anything
> fundamentally wrong with how I'm trying to boot the 9.0 image, kindly
> let me know.
> 
> Possibly relevant: I'm using the Radeon video card that was in the
> machine when the disk failed.  I have the original TGA video card if the
> NETINST kernel can't handle the Radeon, but would rather not have to
> swap out the video card if I don't absolutely have to.

Additional info...  Frank Scheiner reported similar badness on his PWS
back in March of 2017.  See the "debian-alpha" archive link:

https://lists.debian.org/debian-alpha/2017/03/msg00007.html

Executive summary: SMP 4.x kernels work fine, but the generic Debian
kernel does *not* (or at least didn't at that time).

--Bob

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[Frank Scheiner]

Dear Bob,

sorry, looks like I missed your mails to the debian-alpha list until now.

On 11/2/18 19:56, Bob Tracy wrote:
> Additional info...  Frank Scheiner reported similar badness on his PWS
> back in March of 2017.  See the "debian-alpha" archive link:
> 
> https://lists.debian.org/debian-alpha/2017/03/msg00007.html
> 
> Executive summary: SMP 4.x kernels work fine, but the generic Debian
> kernel does *not* (or at least didn't at that time).

I can confirm this. I don't remember exactly when I tried the Debian 9 
Sid installer image with 4.x generic kernel provided by Adrian, but I 
remember that it produced the same result, i.e.:

```
[...]
halted CPU 0

halt code = 5
HALT instruction executed
[...]
```

I believe since then no newer installer image for Alpha was produced.

****

As a workaround, could it work to netboot the matching stock SMP kernel 
(4.9.0-3) with the netboot installer initrd from [1]? I don't know how 
to extract the initrd from the `netabootwrap`ed image though.

Or could it work to netboot the SMP kernel with the cdrom installer 
initrd from [1] and the installer CDROM in the CDROM drive?

[1]. 
http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/pool-alpha/main/d/debian-installer/debian-installer-images_20170615_alpha.tar.gz

****

Other approach: as per [2] hppa for example uses two kernels. So could 
we just change [2] for alpha to also include the SMP kernel, with e.g. 
that patch:

```
--- debian/installer/kernel-versions	2018-11-06 13:30:54.152319148 +0100
+++ debian/installer/kernel-versions-new	2018-11-06 13:31:38.992320296 +0100
@@ -1,5 +1,6 @@
  # arch     version flavour       installedname suffix build-depends
  alpha      -       alpha-generic -             y      -
+alpha      -       alpha-smp     -             y      -
  amd64      -       amd64         -             -      -
  arm64      -       arm64         -             -      -
  armel      -       marvell       -             y      -
```

...and the installer images will also include the SMP kernel?

[2]: 
https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/linux/raw/master/debian/installer/kernel-versions

Cheers,
Frank

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[Bob Tracy]

On Tue, Nov 06, 2018 at 01:36:45PM +0100, Frank Scheiner wrote:
> sorry, looks like I missed your mails to the debian-alpha list until now.

Not a problem.  As a temporary workaround, I've got an "amd64" "testing"
distro loaded on a spare i5-based system.  We have time to explore
options and possibly put together a "recent" alpha installer that will work.

> (...) 
> ****
> 
> As a workaround, could it work to netboot the matching stock SMP kernel
> (4.9.0-3) with the netboot installer initrd from [1]? I don't know how to
> extract the initrd from the `netabootwrap`ed image though.

Example:
# mount -t iso9660 debian-9.0-alpha-NETINST-1.iso /mnt/cdrom -o loop,ro

> Or could it work to netboot the SMP kernel with the cdrom installer initrd
> from [1] and the installer CDROM in the CDROM drive?
> 
> [1]. http://ftp.ports.debian.org/debian-ports/pool-alpha/main/d/debian-installer/debian-installer-images_20170615_alpha.tar.gz
> 
> ****
> 
> Other approach: as per [2] hppa for example uses two kernels. So could we
> just change [2] for alpha to also include the SMP kernel, with e.g. that
> patch:
> 
> ```
> --- debian/installer/kernel-versions	2018-11-06 13:30:54.152319148 +0100
> +++ debian/installer/kernel-versions-new	2018-11-06 13:31:38.992320296 +0100
> @@ -1,5 +1,6 @@
>  # arch     version flavour       installedname suffix build-depends
>  alpha      -       alpha-generic -             y      -
> +alpha      -       alpha-smp     -             y      -
>  amd64      -       amd64         -             -      -
>  arm64      -       arm64         -             -      -
>  armel      -       marvell       -             y      -
> ```
> 
> ...and the installer images will also include the SMP kernel?
> 
> [2]: https://salsa.debian.org/kernel-team/linux/raw/master/debian/installer/kernel-versions

I'm not going to be able to look at this too closely for the next few
days, but my thought was to simply replace the generic kernel with the
smp kernel on the existing "netinst" ISO.  The most obvious issue is
finding (or building) the correct version of the smp kernel.  Rebuilding
the ISO image once the kernel binary has been copied into place looks to
be a straightforward procedure: the relevant details are present on the
existing ISO image in the ".disk" directory (the "mkisofs" file).

This isn't the correct fix by any means, but as workarounds go, not too
distasteful because everything else on the installer image remains
unchanged (except for possibly a few file checksums if anything involved
in the actual installation process cares about them).

At the moment, I don't have the necessary infrastructure to build an
alpha kernel.  If someone could build the appropriate 4.9.0-3 smp kernel
and make it available for download, I think I can handle the rest...

I guess while I'm poking around in the existing ISO image, I should look
to see which video drivers are included in the "initrd" image.  A non-
graphical method of installation is perfectly acceptable if that's an
option: for all I know, that *is* the option :-).

As far as thinking outside the box a little bit, it's helpful to
consider what my actual goal(s) might be.  What I really need to be
able to do is (a) partition the hard disk; (b) create file systems;
(c) install the "aboot" boot sector; and (d) copy my backup into place
from an external USB device.  If having USB support on a CD booted in
"rescue" mode is expecting a bit much, the restoration could be
accomplished over a network connection (trivially if NFS support is
built into the mix).  In other words, I don't really need to be able
to do even a minimal Debian installation.  Depending on the "rescue"
feature set available, even an older known-to-work alpha installer
image might be sufficient to accomplish what I want.  With an older
installer image, the main concerns would be support for "ext3/ext4"
file system types, and having the most recent version of "aboot".  The
Debian 8.0 installer might meet those basic requirements: I haven't
checked.

--Bob

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hello!

On 11/6/18 1:36 PM, Frank Scheiner wrote:
> I believe since then no newer installer image for Alpha was produced.
I can unfortunately not build updated installer images for Alpha since I
don't have an Alpha porterbox available where I can build the debian-installer
package for Alpha.

I do have two AlphaStation 233 sitting in the basement at the university now,
but I don't have any time and space to set them up to be used as porterboxes.

The only porterbox currently currently available to me is Michael Cree's "electro"
but the repositories of the chroots there don't include the debian-installer
component packages, so building d-i fails - at least last time I tried.

Adrian

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[Bob Tracy]

On Wed, Nov 07, 2018 at 04:12:27PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> I can unfortunately not build updated installer images for Alpha since I
> don't have an Alpha porterbox available where I can build the debian-installer
> package for Alpha.
> 
> I do have two AlphaStation 233 sitting in the basement at the university now,
> but I don't have any time and space to set them up to be used as porterboxes.
> 
> The only porterbox currently currently available to me is Michael Cree's "electro"
> but the repositories of the chroots there don't include the debian-installer
> component packages, so building d-i fails - at least last time I tried.

I've carved out a bit of time to deal with getting my PWS back on-line.
The above is the most recent post in the thread, as far as I can tell...

Michael -- is it a relatively easy thing to do to make the d-i component
packages available on "electro"?

Another option: is the SMP version of the 4.9.0-3 kernel available to
substitute into the existing netinst image?  Unless I'm missing something,
rebuilding the ISO with that substitution appears to be a simple task
(assuming the existing initrd image for the generic kernel can be used).
I *did* see further postings indicating that, while the SMP kernel *did*
boot where the generic one wouldn't, there were other issues encountered
subsequent to booting.

I have not yet tried a prior netinst image, so there's a window of
opportunity here are far as me being a willing/motivated tester of the
installer if a working one can be cobbled together.  After all, I'm
currently sitting at the "worst case scenario" state and would lose
nothing but a bit of time by trying a new installer :-).  For that
matter, if "the community" thinks a better thing to do would be to try
out the Gentoo installer, I think I could get to the desired end state
via that route as well.

Opinions welcome.

--Bob

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[Michael Cree]

On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 02:53:30PM -0600, Bob Tracy wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 07, 2018 at 04:12:27PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
> > I can unfortunately not build updated installer images for Alpha since I
> > don't have an Alpha porterbox available where I can build the debian-installer
> > package for Alpha.
> > 
> > I do have two AlphaStation 233 sitting in the basement at the university now,
> > but I don't have any time and space to set them up to be used as porterboxes.
> > 
> > The only porterbox currently currently available to me is Michael Cree's "electro"
> > but the repositories of the chroots there don't include the debian-installer
> > component packages, so building d-i fails - at least last time I tried.
> 
> I've carved out a bit of time to deal with getting my PWS back on-line.
> The above is the most recent post in the thread, as far as I can tell...
> 
> Michael -- is it a relatively easy thing to do to make the d-i component
> packages available on "electro"?

I am not exactly sure what the problem is, but reading between the
lines I am starting to get the impression that Adrian expected the
package cache to be a complete copy of the archive.  It is not and
it is not intended to be. Approx works by caching only those things
that have been previously requested.

If I have surmised correctly then one only needs to issue a download
request to approx for the missing packages (and it should not matter
with that is a .deb or a .udeb) and that should get it into the local
cache.

> Another option: is the SMP version of the 4.9.0-3 kernel available to
> substitute into the existing netinst image? 

That's for Adrian to answer.  I am not familiar with building an
installer image.

Cheers,
Michael.

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[Helge Deller]

Hi Michael,

On 22.11.18 06:34, Michael Cree wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 02:53:30PM -0600, Bob Tracy wrote:
>> On Wed, Nov 07, 2018 at 04:12:27PM +0100, John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
>>> I can unfortunately not build updated installer images for Alpha since I
>>> don't have an Alpha porterbox available where I can build the debian-installer
>>> package for Alpha.
>>>
>>> I do have two AlphaStation 233 sitting in the basement at the university now,
>>> but I don't have any time and space to set them up to be used as porterboxes.
>>>
>>> The only porterbox currently currently available to me is Michael Cree's "electro"
>>> but the repositories of the chroots there don't include the debian-installer
>>> component packages, so building d-i fails - at least last time I tried.
>>
>> I've carved out a bit of time to deal with getting my PWS back on-line.
>> The above is the most recent post in the thread, as far as I can tell...
>>
>> Michael -- is it a relatively easy thing to do to make the d-i component
>> packages available on "electro"?
> 
> I am not exactly sure what the problem is, but reading between the
> lines I am starting to get the impression that Adrian expected the
> package cache to be a complete copy of the archive.

Yes.
This is, because that's the way the installer images are being built
on the original build servers with the unmodified scripts/tools.
If you want the build process to be able to work with caching proxies,
someone needs to do modifications and bring them upstream.
Adrian offered to set up the build process as he has done it for many
of the architectures already. As far as I read his answers, he seems not
to be so much interested to do special work now "just" for alpha....

> It is not and it is not intended to be. Approx works by caching only
> those things that have been previously requested.
Sure, understood.

> If I have surmised correctly then one only needs to issue a download
> request to approx for the missing packages (and it should not matter
> with that is a .deb or a .udeb) and that should get it into the local
> cache.

Someone has to do it then...

What's the problem of having a complete copy of the archive on electro?

Helge

>> Another option: is the SMP version of the 4.9.0-3 kernel available to
>> substitute into the existing netinst image?
> 
> That's for Adrian to answer.  I am not familiar with building an
> installer image.
> 
> Cheers,
> Michael.
> 

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 11/22/18 8:58 AM, Helge Deller wrote:
> This is, because that's the way the installer images are being built
> on the original build servers with the unmodified scripts/tools.
> If you want the build process to be able to work with caching proxies,
> someone needs to do modifications and bring them upstream.
> Adrian offered to set up the build process as he has done it for many
> of the architectures already. As far as I read his answers, he seems not
> to be so much interested to do special work now "just" for alpha....
I didn't follow the whole thread so I don't remember what the actual problem
is/was. But what I need is a Debian/Alpha porterbox which has a proper
Debian Ports archive mirror in its sources.list such that the Debian Installer
packages are being mirrored.

Once I have that, I can manually build the debian-installer package on Alpha,
then build fresh images on casulana, the Debian CD build server which has
a full mirror of the Debian Ports archive. The debian-installer package needs
to be built natively, it cannot be cross-built, as far as I know.

I would use qemu-user, but so far trying to build debian-installer with qemu-user
emulating Alpha didn't work. For m68k and sh4, for example, this works fine.

Adrian

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[Bob Tracy]

Just a quick update, and hopefully there's a Gentoo advocate/developer
reading this...

Trying the 20181120 minimal installation CD fails due to the firmware
for the Qlogic ISP1020 (1040.bin) SCSI adapter not being present, either
as built-in to the kernel or as a standalone file.  No firmware means no
hard disks detected means "full stop" -- can't get there from here.

--Bob

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

On 11/23/18 8:41 PM, Bob Tracy wrote:
> Just a quick update, and hopefully there's a Gentoo advocate/developer
> reading this...

Not sure whether Gentoo folk is reading the Debian mailing lists,
but you can get in touch with them on #debian-ports on OFTC IRC as
some of them hang around there.

Any chance someone can get me full access to an Alpha box so I don't
have to hurl my AlphaStations out of the basement?

Adrian

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[Michael Cree]

On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 01:41:17PM -0600, Bob Tracy wrote:
> Trying the 20181120 minimal installation CD fails due to the firmware
> for the Qlogic ISP1020 (1040.bin) SCSI adapter not being present, either
> as built-in to the kernel or as a standalone file.  No firmware means no
> hard disks detected means "full stop" -- can't get there from here.

Yeah, that's a problem.  I think the Qlogic firmware is in the 
firmware-linux-nonfree package.  You will need to get that separately
from the main repo.  Do you have a floppy drive?  The installer gives
the option to scan extra disks for firmware; not sure if it would
scan a floppy disk but it should scan a CD for firmware so you might
be able to write another disk with the firmware. (One would normally
put the firmware on a USB stick but I an guessing that is not an
option for you.)

Cheers,
Michael.

Re: [alpha] Debian 9.0 NETINST fails

[Bob Tracy]

On Sat, Nov 24, 2018 at 09:07:09AM +1300, Michael Cree wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 23, 2018 at 01:41:17PM -0600, Bob Tracy wrote:
> > Trying the 20181120 minimal installation CD fails due to the firmware
> > for the Qlogic ISP1020 (1040.bin) SCSI adapter not being present, either
> > as built-in to the kernel or as a standalone file.  No firmware means no
> > hard disks detected means "full stop" -- can't get there from here.
> 
> Yeah, that's a problem.

(Missing context: I was trying the Gentoo "install-alpha-minimal" CD
when I ran into the missing firmware issue.  Their CD is based on a
later kernel than Debian's, and boots/runs ok other than the missing
firmware issue.  Yes, I'm keeping "debian-alpha" in the list, because
our community is small enough to make keeping maximal eyes on Alpha
installation issues a good thing.)

Submitted a bug report via Gentoo's bugzilla page to get the ball
rolling on that side of the fence.  Doesn't help as far as fixing the
problems with the Debian installer though...

Other architectures officially supported by Debian have moved to a later
kernel for their installation CDs, and we should do likewise.  There are
known issues with 4.9.X which prompted the move to, I think, 4.12.X for
other Debian install CDs.  We (Debian) ran into a Qlogic firmware issue
about a year ago when the 4.14 kernel was current, because that was
around the time firmware was removed from the kernel source tree.  I
mention that as a reminder in case we decide to use a later kernel than
the other architectures.

--Bob