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* [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd
@ 2004-02-23 21:36 Klaus Holst
  2004-02-23 22:03 ` Marcel Holtmann
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Klaus Holst @ 2004-02-23 21:36 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: bluez-users

I have just installed bluez with partial success. I am using a belkin usb adaptor
and linux 2.4.25 with the latest bluez installed. The adaptor is recognized and 
I am able to connect a Pocket PC (WM2003) to the linux-machine using "Network Access Service". 
However pppd is never started and I am not able to transmit any packets from the PPC.

[syslog message when 'hotplugging' the device]:
Feb 23 18:51:13 mini kernel: usb.c: USB disconnect on device 00:10.0-2 address 3
Feb 23 18:51:15 mini kernel: hub.c: new USB device 00:10.0-2, assigned address 4
Feb 23 18:51:15 mini kernel: usb.c: USB device 4 (vend/prod 0xa5c/0x2033) is not claimed by any active driver.
Feb 23 18:51:19 mini bluefw[5776]: Loading firmware to usb device 0a5c:2033
Feb 23 18:51:19 mini bluefw[5776]: FW loaded

Then I run
/usr/bin/pand --listen --role NAP
/usr/bin/dund --listen --msdun call dun

Starting pand,dund etc:
Feb 23 18:51:28 mini hcid[5972]: HCI daemon ver 2.4 started
Feb 23 18:51:28 mini hcid[5972]: Starting security manager 0
Feb 23 18:51:28 mini bluetooth: hcid startup succeeded
Feb 23 18:51:28 mini sdpd[5978]: sdpd v1.5 started
Feb 23 18:51:28 mini bluetooth: sdpd startup succeeded
Feb 23 18:51:34 mini pand[5986]: PAN daemon ver 1.1
Feb 23 18:51:34 mini pan: pand startup succeeded
Feb 23 18:51:34 mini dund[5990]: DUN daemon ver 1.1
Feb 23 18:51:34 mini pan: dund startup succeeded
Feb 23 18:52:13 mini hcid[5972]: link_key_request (sba=00:03:C9:2E:6C:F6, dba=00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9)
Feb 23 18:52:16 mini pand[5997]: New connection from 00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9 bnep0

And pppd is never started as I suppose it should?



My current setup:
-----------------------------------------------
/etc/ppp/peers/dun:
115200
192.168.1.240:192.168.1.241
local
ms-dns 192.168.1.1
noauth
debug
passive
silent


-----------------------------------------------
/etc/bluetooth/rfcomm:
rfcomm0 {
        bind yes;
        device 00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9;
        channel 1;
        comment "PPC DEVICE";
}

-----------------------------------------------
/etc/bluetooth/hcid.conf:
options {
        autoinit yes;
        security auto;
        pairing multi;
        pin_helper /bin/bluepin;
}

device {
        name "MINI (linux)";
        class 0x100;
        iscan enable; pscan enable;
        lm accept,master;
        lp hold,sniff,park;
        auth enable;
        encrypt enable;
}
-----------------------------------------------



Best regards
Klaus Holst


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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd
  2004-02-23 21:36 [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd Klaus Holst
@ 2004-02-23 22:03 ` Marcel Holtmann
  2004-02-24  8:53   ` Klaus Holst
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-02-23 22:03 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Klaus Holst; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List

Hi Klaus,

> I have just installed bluez with partial success. I am using a belkin usb adaptor
> and linux 2.4.25 with the latest bluez installed. The adaptor is recognized and 
> I am able to connect a Pocket PC (WM2003) to the linux-machine using "Network Access Service". 
> However pppd is never started and I am not able to transmit any packets from the PPC.
> 
> [syslog message when 'hotplugging' the device]:
> Feb 23 18:51:13 mini kernel: usb.c: USB disconnect on device 00:10.0-2 address 3
> Feb 23 18:51:15 mini kernel: hub.c: new USB device 00:10.0-2, assigned address 4
> Feb 23 18:51:15 mini kernel: usb.c: USB device 4 (vend/prod 0xa5c/0x2033) is not claimed by any active driver.
> Feb 23 18:51:19 mini bluefw[5776]: Loading firmware to usb device 0a5c:2033
> Feb 23 18:51:19 mini bluefw[5776]: FW loaded
> 
> Then I run
> /usr/bin/pand --listen --role NAP
> /usr/bin/dund --listen --msdun call dun
> 
> Starting pand,dund etc:
> Feb 23 18:51:28 mini hcid[5972]: HCI daemon ver 2.4 started
> Feb 23 18:51:28 mini hcid[5972]: Starting security manager 0
> Feb 23 18:51:28 mini bluetooth: hcid startup succeeded
> Feb 23 18:51:28 mini sdpd[5978]: sdpd v1.5 started
> Feb 23 18:51:28 mini bluetooth: sdpd startup succeeded
> Feb 23 18:51:34 mini pand[5986]: PAN daemon ver 1.1
> Feb 23 18:51:34 mini pan: pand startup succeeded
> Feb 23 18:51:34 mini dund[5990]: DUN daemon ver 1.1
> Feb 23 18:51:34 mini pan: dund startup succeeded
> Feb 23 18:52:13 mini hcid[5972]: link_key_request (sba=00:03:C9:2E:6C:F6, dba=00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9)
> Feb 23 18:52:16 mini pand[5997]: New connection from 00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9 bnep0
> 
> And pppd is never started as I suppose it should?

your new connection is a PAN connection and so you don't need pppd. Set
up your new bnep0 device with ifconfig etc. and go ahead.

Regards

Marcel




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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd
  2004-02-23 22:03 ` Marcel Holtmann
@ 2004-02-24  8:53   ` Klaus Holst
  2004-02-24 12:14     ` Marcel Holtmann
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Klaus Holst @ 2004-02-24  8:53 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marcel Holtmann; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List

* Marcel Holtmann <marcel@holtmann.org> [2004-02-23 23:03:30 +0100]:

> Hi Klaus,
> 
> > I have just installed bluez with partial success. I am using a belkin usb adaptor
> > and linux 2.4.25 with the latest bluez installed. The adaptor is recognized and 
> > I am able to connect a Pocket PC (WM2003) to the linux-machine using "Network Access Service". 
> > However pppd is never started and I am not able to transmit any packets from the PPC.
> > 
> > Starting pand,dund etc:
> > Feb 23 18:51:28 mini hcid[5972]: HCI daemon ver 2.4 started
> > Feb 23 18:51:28 mini hcid[5972]: Starting security manager 0
> > Feb 23 18:51:28 mini bluetooth: hcid startup succeeded
> > Feb 23 18:51:28 mini sdpd[5978]: sdpd v1.5 started
> > Feb 23 18:51:28 mini bluetooth: sdpd startup succeeded
> > Feb 23 18:51:34 mini pand[5986]: PAN daemon ver 1.1
> > Feb 23 18:51:34 mini pan: pand startup succeeded
> > Feb 23 18:51:34 mini dund[5990]: DUN daemon ver 1.1
> > Feb 23 18:51:34 mini pan: dund startup succeeded
> > Feb 23 18:52:13 mini hcid[5972]: link_key_request (sba=00:03:C9:2E:6C:F6, dba=00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9)
> > Feb 23 18:52:16 mini pand[5997]: New connection from 00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9 bnep0
> > 
> > And pppd is never started as I suppose it should?
> 
> your new connection is a PAN connection and so you don't need pppd. Set
> up your new bnep0 device with ifconfig etc. and go ahead.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Marcel
> 

Thanks for the quick reply. I tried to set up bnep0:
 
bnep0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:03:C9:2E:6C:F6  
          inet addr:192.168.0.1  Bcast:192.168.0.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:14 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:10 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
          RX bytes:2182 (2.1 Kb)  TX bytes:319 (319.0 b)

But I am still not able to ping anything from the pocket pc (using vxUtils). The pocket pc
has been assigned the ip adr:169.254.121.94 and subnet mask: 255.255.0.0 - probably assigned by
itself because of timeout.

I guess I am missing a step or two in the setup-process?

Best regards
Klaus

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd
  2004-02-24  8:53   ` Klaus Holst
@ 2004-02-24 12:14     ` Marcel Holtmann
  2004-02-24 21:54       ` Klaus Holst
  2004-02-25 11:38       ` Klaus Holst
  0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-02-24 12:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Klaus Holst; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List

Hi Klaus,

> Thanks for the quick reply. I tried to set up bnep0:
>  
> bnep0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:03:C9:2E:6C:F6  
>           inet addr:192.168.0.1  Bcast:192.168.0.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
>           UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
>           RX packets:14 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
>           TX packets:10 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
>           collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
>           RX bytes:2182 (2.1 Kb)  TX bytes:319 (319.0 b)
> 
> But I am still not able to ping anything from the pocket pc (using vxUtils). The pocket pc
> has been assigned the ip adr:169.254.121.94 and subnet mask: 255.255.0.0 - probably assigned by
> itself because of timeout.

of course you are not able to ping, because your two devices are in
different IP networks. Configure your PDA to assign manually an IP
number or run a DHCP server for bnep0.

Regards

Marcel




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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd
  2004-02-24 12:14     ` Marcel Holtmann
@ 2004-02-24 21:54       ` Klaus Holst
  2004-02-24 21:59         ` Marcel Holtmann
  2004-02-25 11:38       ` Klaus Holst
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Klaus Holst @ 2004-02-24 21:54 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marcel Holtmann; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List



* Marcel Holtmann <marcel@holtmann.org> [2004-02-24 13:14:36 +0100]:

> > 
> > But I am still not able to ping anything from the pocket pc (using vxUtils). The pocket pc
> > has been assigned the ip adr:169.254.121.94 and subnet mask: 255.255.0.0 - probably assigned by
> > itself because of timeout.
> 
> of course you are not able to ping, because your two devices are in
> different IP networks. Configure your PDA to assign manually an IP
> number or run a DHCP server for bnep0.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Marcel
> 
> 

I manually assigned the ip-number for my PDA and That fixed the problem - Thanks for the help.
However a new problem has appeared :-). The connection is quite slow (maybe 1kb/s) and after at 
most a couple of minutes the connection is dropped and I am unable to detect hci0 from the 
server:

# hciconfig -a
hci0:   Type: USB
        BD Address: 00:03:C9:2E:6C:F6 ACL MTU: 377:10  SCO MTU: 16:0
        UP RUNNING PSCAN ISCAN AUTH ENCRYPT 
        RX bytes:10342 acl:118 sco:0 events:92 errors:0
        TX bytes:33903 acl:148 sco:0 commands:19 errors:0
        Features: 0xff 0xfd 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
        Packet type: DM1 DM3 DM5 DH1 DH3 DH5 HV1 HV2 HV3 
        Link policy: HOLD SNIFF PARK 
        Link mode: ACCEPT MASTER 
Can't read local name on hci0. Connection timed out(110)


A problem with my bluez-modules?

Best regards
Klaus

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd
  2004-02-24 21:54       ` Klaus Holst
@ 2004-02-24 21:59         ` Marcel Holtmann
       [not found]           ` <20040224223520.GA2241@encephalon.dk>
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-02-24 21:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Klaus Holst; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List

Hi Klaus,

> I manually assigned the ip-number for my PDA and That fixed the problem - Thanks for the help.
> However a new problem has appeared :-). The connection is quite slow (maybe 1kb/s) and after at 
> most a couple of minutes the connection is dropped and I am unable to detect hci0 from the 
> server:
> 
> # hciconfig -a
> hci0:   Type: USB
>         BD Address: 00:03:C9:2E:6C:F6 ACL MTU: 377:10  SCO MTU: 16:0
>         UP RUNNING PSCAN ISCAN AUTH ENCRYPT 
>         RX bytes:10342 acl:118 sco:0 events:92 errors:0
>         TX bytes:33903 acl:148 sco:0 commands:19 errors:0
>         Features: 0xff 0xfd 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
>         Packet type: DM1 DM3 DM5 DH1 DH3 DH5 HV1 HV2 HV3 
>         Link policy: HOLD SNIFF PARK 
>         Link mode: ACCEPT MASTER 
> Can't read local name on hci0. Connection timed out(110)

show us "hciconfig -a" after you plugged in the dongle.

Regards

Marcel




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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd
       [not found]           ` <20040224223520.GA2241@encephalon.dk>
@ 2004-02-24 22:41             ` Marcel Holtmann
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-02-24 22:41 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Klaus Holst; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List

Hi Klaus,

> > show us "hciconfig -a" after you plugged in the dongle.
> > 
> 
> hci0:   Type: USB
>         BD Address: 00:03:C9:2E:6C:F6 ACL MTU: 377:10  SCO MTU: 16:0
>         UP RUNNING PSCAN ISCAN AUTH ENCRYPT 
>         RX bytes:647 acl:0 sco:0 events:18 errors:0
>         TX bytes:314 acl:0 sco:0 commands:18 errors:0
>         Features: 0xff 0xfd 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
>         Packet type: DM1 DM3 DM5 DH1 DH3 DH5 HV1 HV2 HV3 
>         Link policy: HOLD SNIFF PARK 
>         Link mode: ACCEPT MASTER 
>         Name: 'MINI (linux)'
>         Class: 0x000100
>         Service Classes: Unspecified
>         Device Class: Computer, Uncategorized
>         HCI Ver: 1.1 (0x1) HCI Rev: 0x2 LMP Ver: 1.1 (0x1) LMP Subver: 0x1007
>         Manufacturer: Broadcom Corporation (15)

and what Bluetooth chip is in your PDA? Use "hcitool info <bdaddr>".

Do you have any other Bluetooth dongle to test this with? Maybe the
Broadcom dongle is problematic.

Regards

Marcel




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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd
  2004-02-24 12:14     ` Marcel Holtmann
  2004-02-24 21:54       ` Klaus Holst
@ 2004-02-25 11:38       ` Klaus Holst
  2004-02-25 13:34         ` Marcel Holtmann
  1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Klaus Holst @ 2004-02-25 11:38 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marcel Holtmann; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List


> > > show us "hciconfig -a" after you plugged in the dongle.
> > >
> >
> > hci0:   Type: USB
> >         BD Address: 00:03:C9:2E:6C:F6 ACL MTU: 377:10  SCO MTU: 16:0
> >         UP RUNNING PSCAN ISCAN AUTH ENCRYPT
> >         RX bytes:647 acl:0 sco:0 events:18 errors:0
> >         TX bytes:314 acl:0 sco:0 commands:18 errors:0
> >         Features: 0xff 0xfd 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
> >         Packet type: DM1 DM3 DM5 DH1 DH3 DH5 HV1 HV2 HV3
> >         Link policy: HOLD SNIFF PARK
> >         Link mode: ACCEPT MASTER
> >         Name: 'MINI (linux)'
> >         Class: 0x000100
> >         Service Classes: Unspecified
> >         Device Class: Computer, Uncategorized
> >         HCI Ver: 1.1 (0x1) HCI Rev: 0x2 LMP Ver: 1.1 (0x1) LMP Subver: 0x1007
> >         Manufacturer: Broadcom Corporation (15)
>
> and what Bluetooth chip is in your PDA? Use "hcitool info <bdaddr>".
> 
> Do you have any other Bluetooth dongle to test this with? Maybe the
> Broadcom dongle is problematic.

> Regards

> Marcel

Here is the info from the PDA:

# hcitool info 00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9
Requesting information ...
        BD Address:  00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9
        Device Name: Pocket_PC
        LMP Version: 1.1 (0x1) LMP Subversion: 0x8d
        Manufacturer: Telencomm Inc. (18)
        Features: 0xff 0xff 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
                <3-slot packets> <5-slot packets> <encryption> <slot offset> 
                <timing accuracy> <role switch> <hold mode> <sniff mode> 
                <park state> <RSSI> <channel quality> <SCO link> 
                <HV2 packets> <HV3 packets> <u-law log> <A-law log> 
                <CVSD> <power control> 


Actually the dongle (Belkin F8T001) is listed as supported in
http://www.holtmann.org/linux/bluetooth/devices.html.

However in case I should try to find another dongle, can anyone recommend one 
which is properly supported by linux/bluez and has a reasonable range?

Best regards
Klaus

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd
  2004-02-25 11:38       ` Klaus Holst
@ 2004-02-25 13:34         ` Marcel Holtmann
  2004-02-25 18:00           ` Klaus Holst
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-02-25 13:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Klaus Holst; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List

Hi Klaus,

> Here is the info from the PDA:
> 
> # hcitool info 00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9
> Requesting information ...
>         BD Address:  00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9
>         Device Name: Pocket_PC
>         LMP Version: 1.1 (0x1) LMP Subversion: 0x8d
>         Manufacturer: Telencomm Inc. (18)
>         Features: 0xff 0xff 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
>                 <3-slot packets> <5-slot packets> <encryption> <slot offset> 
>                 <timing accuracy> <role switch> <hold mode> <sniff mode> 
>                 <park state> <RSSI> <channel quality> <SCO link> 
>                 <HV2 packets> <HV3 packets> <u-law log> <A-law log> 
>                 <CVSD> <power control> 

what iPAQ is this?

> Actually the dongle (Belkin F8T001) is listed as supported in
> http://www.holtmann.org/linux/bluetooth/devices.html.

It is fully supported, but there can be problems with the firmware you
are using or with the interop to some other chips. We can't test this,
because we have no access to the link manager. From the HCI layer
onwards the Broadcom BCM2033 is fully supported.

> However in case I should try to find another dongle, can anyone recommend one 
> which is properly supported by linux/bluez and has a reasonable range?

I had the best results with a Bluetooth chip from CSR.

Regards

Marcel




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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd
  2004-02-25 13:34         ` Marcel Holtmann
@ 2004-02-25 18:00           ` Klaus Holst
  2004-02-25 18:37             ` Marcel Holtmann
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread
From: Klaus Holst @ 2004-02-25 18:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Marcel Holtmann; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List


Hi Marcel,

* Marcel Holtmann <marcel@holtmann.org> [2004-02-25 14:34:49 +0100]:

> Hi Klaus,
> 
> > Here is the info from the PDA:
> > 
> > # hcitool info 00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9
> > Requesting information ...
> >         BD Address:  00:04:3E:A2:2D:C9
> >         Device Name: Pocket_PC
> >         LMP Version: 1.1 (0x1) LMP Subversion: 0x8d
> >         Manufacturer: Telencomm Inc. (18)
> >         Features: 0xff 0xff 0x05 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
> >                 <3-slot packets> <5-slot packets> <encryption> <slot offset> 
> >                 <timing accuracy> <role switch> <hold mode> <sniff mode> 
> >                 <park state> <RSSI> <channel quality> <SCO link> 
> >                 <HV2 packets> <HV3 packets> <u-law log> <A-law log> 
> >                 <CVSD> <power control> 
> 
> what iPAQ is this?


It is an Ipaq 2210.

> 
> > Actually the dongle (Belkin F8T001) is listed as supported in
> > http://www.holtmann.org/linux/bluetooth/devices.html.
> 
> It is fully supported, but there can be problems with the firmware you
> are using or with the interop to some other chips. We can't test this,
> because we have no access to the link manager. From the HCI layer
> onwards the Broadcom BCM2033 is fully supported.
> 
> > However in case I should try to find another dongle, can anyone recommend one 
> > which is properly supported by linux/bluez and has a reasonable range?
> 
> I had the best results with a Bluetooth chip from CSR.
> 

I went out to the store where I bought the dongle and returned it. Instead I
picked up a Belkin F8T003 dongle and now everything works flawlessly :-)!!!

Thanks for all the help.

Best regards
Klaus

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

* Re: [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd
  2004-02-25 18:00           ` Klaus Holst
@ 2004-02-25 18:37             ` Marcel Holtmann
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-02-25 18:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Klaus Holst; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List

Hi Klaus,

> > > Actually the dongle (Belkin F8T001) is listed as supported in
> > > http://www.holtmann.org/linux/bluetooth/devices.html.
> > 
> > It is fully supported, but there can be problems with the firmware you
> > are using or with the interop to some other chips. We can't test this,
> > because we have no access to the link manager. From the HCI layer
> > onwards the Broadcom BCM2033 is fully supported.
> > 
> > > However in case I should try to find another dongle, can anyone recommend one 
> > > which is properly supported by linux/bluez and has a reasonable range?
> > 
> > I had the best results with a Bluetooth chip from CSR. 
> 
> I went out to the store where I bought the dongle and returned it. Instead I
> picked up a Belkin F8T003 dongle and now everything works flawlessly :-)!!!

this is another bad story with a Broadcom dongle :(

Regards

Marcel




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^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2004-02-25 18:37 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2004-02-23 21:36 [Bluez-users] dund never activates pppd Klaus Holst
2004-02-23 22:03 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-02-24  8:53   ` Klaus Holst
2004-02-24 12:14     ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-02-24 21:54       ` Klaus Holst
2004-02-24 21:59         ` Marcel Holtmann
     [not found]           ` <20040224223520.GA2241@encephalon.dk>
2004-02-24 22:41             ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-02-25 11:38       ` Klaus Holst
2004-02-25 13:34         ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-02-25 18:00           ` Klaus Holst
2004-02-25 18:37             ` Marcel Holtmann

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