[Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Frédéric]

Hello,

I'm a new BlueTooth user. I'm working on a nice project [1] which consists =

to turn an astronomic mount into a panoramic head. I hacked the protocol =

between the head and the remote, and made a little serial interface to =

take control from a computer. The protocol is ascii, and the interface =

only consists to adapt levels.

Then, the idea is to plug a BT/serial converter to this interface to drive =

the head from a PDA. So, I bought a AIRcable Serial3 hardware, which is a =

nice product, because it is possible to program it to do higher level =

tasks. But for now, I'm just trying to use it as a simple converter, with =

the default firmeware.

And I need your help to access it from linux/debian. Manuel Naranjo helped =

me a lot, but I still have strange issues. And I would also like to =

understand how Bluetooth is implemented under linux; there seems to have a =

lot of layers, and it is not simple... So, if someone could summarize all =

this for me...

I also need to know how to use the serial protocol to access the Serial3 =

hardware as any other serial port. I tired to use rfcomm, but, again, I'm =

not sure to clearly undertand whait it is supposed to do.

Last thing: I'm a python developper, so I like very much all python =

examples on Bluez wiki ;o)

Thank you very much for you help.

[1]http://www.autopano.net/wiki/action/view/Orion_TeleTrack_altazimuth_trac=
king_mount

There is a link to the french wiki, which is more up-to-date. I didn't take =

the time to translate it...

-- =

   Fr=E9d=E9ric

   http://www.gbiloba.org

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Frédéric]

Le 18/1/2008, "Fr=E9d=E9ric" <fma@gbiloba.org> a =E9crit:

>And I need your help to access it from linux/debian. Manuel Naranjo helped =

>me a lot, but I still have strange issues. And I would also like to =

>understand how Bluetooth is implemented under linux; there seems to have a =

>lot of layers, and it is not simple... So, if someone could summarize all =

>this for me...
>
>I also need to know how to use the serial protocol to access the Serial3 =

>hardware as any other serial port. I tired to use rfcomm, but, again, I'm =

>not sure to clearly undertand whait it is supposed to do.

Nobody to help me? I still can't access corretly to my Serial3 device
under debian. I'm trying to use the passkey-agent, and obexftp client,
but I always get some:

    Connecting...failed: connect
    Still trying to connect

errors.

What am I doing wrong? What is the correct way to use a BT device? What
different phases are need?

--
    Fr=E9d=E9ric

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Manuel Naranjo]

> Nobody to help me? I still can't access corretly to my Serial3 device
> under debian. I'm trying to use the passkey-agent, and obexftp client,
> but I always get some:
>
>     Connecting...failed: connect
>     Still trying to connect
>
> errors.
>
> What am I doing wrong? What is the correct way to use a BT device? What
> different phases are need?
>   
Fredric we can't know if you don't send us the full hcidump -X -V log.

Pairing should only be done once, after that you don't need to pair again.

You should also report which versions of bluez (libs and utils) you
have, which version from openobex (not related to this forum) and which
version of obexftp.

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Frédéric]

Le 22/1/2008, "Manuel Naranjo" <manuel@aircable.net> a =E9crit:

>Fredric we can't know if you don't send us the full hcidump -X -V log.
>
>Pairing should only be done once, after that you don't need to pair again.
>
>You should also report which versions of bluez (libs and utils) you
>have, which version from openobex (not related to this forum) and which
>version of obexftp.

The fact is that I don't understand the blutetooth process, and I'm
missing half of your explanations... I'm still looking for a good
documentation which presents BT.

Bluetooth seems to mix hardware and software layers, and the linux
implementation seems to add more out-of-topic stuffs (dbus, for
exemple). The result is that I'm totally lost...

My goal is not to develop bluetooth, but, as a first step, to use the
Serial3 like I use a USB-to-Serial converter (simply talking to
/dev/ttyUSBxx, like to any other ttySxx). I want my app to be
cross-plateform, and if I have to go so deep in the system on each one,
I think I made a mistake choosing bluetooth!

Debian is maybe also the wrong plateform to use BT, as I seem to have
more troubles than you, under Mandriva...

Last, I didn't understand what exactly starts and ends bluez project...

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    Fr=E9d=E9ric

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Manuel Naranjo]

> The fact is that I don't understand the blutetooth process, and I'm
> missing half of your explanations... I'm still looking for a good
> documentation which presents BT.
>   
The process is simple, when you start a connection there's an initial
phase where both devices authenticate, for this they exchange something
called link key it's something similar to the way ssh works. If the link
keys aren't generated yet then they exchange a PIN code, this is what
the passkey agent does.

After the authentication has been done then the connection is possible.
> Bluetooth seems to mix hardware and software layers, and the linux
> implementation seems to add more out-of-topic stuffs (dbus, for
> exemple). The result is that I'm totally lost...
>   
Indeed bluetooth specifies both software and hardware, bluez is the
Bluetooth stack for Linux, a sort of firmware if you want to understand
it like that.

> My goal is not to develop bluetooth, but, as a first step, to use the
> Serial3 like I use a USB-to-Serial converter (simply talking to
> /dev/ttyUSBxx, like to any other ttySxx). I want my app to be
> cross-plateform, and if I have to go so deep in the system on each one,
> I think I made a mistake choosing bluetooth!
>   
The fast and easy way to do it, it's using the old rfcomm tool from the
bluez-utils package then you do:
rfcomm connect rfcomm# ADDR [CHANNEL]

For SPP you generally use channel 1 (the Serial3 is one of those cases)

# is a number of a valid and available rfcomm node, you will need to
create it, check the web for the mayor number of the rfcomm node.

> Debian is maybe also the wrong plateform to use BT, as I seem to have
> more troubles than you, under Mandriva...
>   
Thing is that I have them solved :D, not that I didn't have those in the
past.
> Last, I didn't understand what exactly starts and ends bluez project...
>   
Again BlueZ is the stack, without it you can't do any bluetooth work
under linux. D-Bus layer is used to make the programmers life easier as
it hides all the bluez lib complexity (trust me you don't want to get
much deeply into it, it requires serious bluetooth understanding)

Hope this clarifies your ides,
Anyway, and again, without a full hcidump trace, we can't tell you
what's wrong, and guide you through this stuff.

Cheers,
Manuel

PS: BTW slackware has some patches in common with debian, they have a
folder called /etc/bluetooth/passkeys there you can store files for
default passkeys, you can have one called default and it uses for a
default pin code, not the most secure way, but it works some how.

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Frédéric]

Le 22/1/2008, "Manuel Naranjo" <manuel@aircable.net> a =E9crit:

>The process is simple, when you start a connection there's an initial
>phase where both devices authenticate, for this they exchange something
>called link key it's something similar to the way ssh works. If the link
>keys aren't generated yet then they exchange a PIN code, this is what
>the passkey agent does.
>
>After the authentication has been done then the connection is possible.

Ok, I got it. But how and where do I generate link keys?

>The fast and easy way to do it, it's using the old rfcomm tool from the
>bluez-utils package then you do:
>rfcomm connect rfcomm# ADDR [CHANNEL]
>
>For SPP you generally use channel 1 (the Serial3 is one of those cases)
>
># is a number of a valid and available rfcomm node, you will need to
>create it, check the web for the mayor number of the rfcomm node.

So, after I connect the BT device to the rfcomm channel, I can read/write
to it using the /dev/rfcomm entry, like if I'm using a /dev/ttySxx ?

If I understand correctly, rfcomm is not supported anymore? If it is the
old way, what is the new way?

>Again BlueZ is the stack, without it you can't do any bluetooth work
>under linux. D-Bus layer is used to make the programmers life easier as
>it hides all the bluez lib complexity (trust me you don't want to get
>much deeply into it, it requires serious bluetooth understanding)

I certainly don't want to deep inside d-bus, but the fact is that python
examples on bluez wiki use d-bus module :o/

>Anyway, and again, without a full hcidump trace, we can't tell you
>what's wrong, and guide you through this stuff.

I attached it.

>PS: BTW slackware has some patches in common with debian, they have a
>folder called /etc/bluetooth/passkeys there you can store files for
>default passkeys, you can have one called default and it uses for a
>default pin code, not the most secure way, but it works some how.

Ok.

--
    Fr=E9d=E9ric

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Manuel Naranjo]

> Ok, I got it. But how and where do I generate link keys?
>   
You don't after the PIN transaction has completed successfully the
stacks handle the link generation. Links are stored under
/var/lib/bluetooth/<hci address>/linkkeys take into account that if you
switch from windows into linux, or if you plug your bluetooth dongle to
another pc, you will need to remove the linkkey from the file or it will
never work. It's like when RSA keys changes for a server.

> So, after I connect the BT device to the rfcomm channel, I can read/write
> to it using the /dev/rfcomm entry, like if I'm using a /dev/ttySxx ?
>   
Exactly.

> If I understand correctly, rfcomm is not supported anymore? If it is the
> old way, what is the new way?
>   
rfcomm as a tool isn't supported any more, rfcomm as technology is and
is the base for most of the bluetooth services. The new way is using the
dbus serial service. Which will also generate the rfcomm node, in a more
simple way, but if your distro is not well configured, it can be a
headhacke to get it to work.

> I certainly don't want to deep inside d-bus, but the fact is that python
> examples on bluez wiki use d-bus module :o/
>   
You WANT to get deep into bluez dbus api, not into the old hci lib api ;).

> I attached it.
>   
Where? I don't think this list can take attached files.


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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Frédéric]

Le 22/1/2008, "Manuel Naranjo" <manuel@aircable.net> a =E9crit:

>> Ok, I got it. But how and where do I generate link keys?
>>
>You don't after the PIN transaction has completed successfully the
>stacks handle the link generation. Links are stored under
>/var/lib/bluetooth/<hci address>/linkkeys take into account that if you
>switch from windows into linux, or if you plug your bluetooth dongle to
>another pc, you will need to remove the linkkey from the file or it will
>never work. It's like when RSA keys changes for a server.

That's a precious information! I found that I had a:

    /var/lib/bluetooth/00:11:E0:02:FA:85/

directory. 00:11:E0:02:FA:85 is my BT adapter address. I deleted this
dir, and tried again: it now works :o) Don't know what happened first
time I tried to connect. I should have done something wrong, and lock
the entire process...

>> So, after I connect the BT device to the rfcomm channel, I can read/write
>> to it using the /dev/rfcomm entry, like if I'm using a /dev/ttySxx ?
>>
>Exactly.

Good :o) I tried, and it seems to wok. At least, the /dev/rfcomm0 entry
is created, and I can open it from my python software. I can't
communicate yet, but I think there is something I don't understand
about the Serial3. I will post another question on the AIRcable ML...

>> If I understand correctly, rfcomm is not supported anymore? If it is the
>> old way, what is the new way?
>>
>rfcomm as a tool isn't supported any more, rfcomm as technology is and
>is the base for most of the bluetooth services. The new way is using the
>dbus serial service. Which will also generate the rfcomm node, in a more
>simple way, but if your distro is not well configured, it can be a
>headhacke to get it to work.

Hope I will find why it does not work as it should under debian.

>> I certainly don't want to deep inside d-bus, but the fact is that python
>> examples on bluez wiki use d-bus module :o/
>>
>You WANT to get deep into bluez dbus api, not into the old hci lib api ;).

Ok. If examples could work, I guess it could be easy to understand.

>> I attached it.
>>
>Where? I don't think this list can take attached files.

I forgot to attached it, anyway! As it now works, I don't need to send
it.

Thanks you very much, Manuel!

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    Fr=E9d=E9ric

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Frédéric]

Le 22/1/2008, "Fr=E9d=E9ric" <fma@gbiloba.org> a =E9crit:

>Good :o) I tried, and it seems to wok. At least, the /dev/rfcomm0 entry
>is created, and I can open it from my python software. I can't
>communicate yet, but I think there is something I don't understand
>about the Serial3. I will post another question on the AIRcable ML...

Well, in fact, it works! I had to restart minicom after restarting the
Serial3 (from cli).

Great :o))))

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Miguel]

Hi,
what frederic want to do it's something like:

rfcomm connect 0 00:1E:3A:1E:9F:F6 

in this moment the link keys are exchanged.
if it's the first time a pin code will be required in the other side.
After exchanging PIN code, the link key is stored
in /var/lib/bluetooth/<mac>

this is called the pairing phase.

After that you will see a new device in the /dev/rfcomm0

You can send command to this serial port using minicom program.

but How do you do the same using dbus serial??


I 'm using ubuntu feisty with this packages:

ii  bluez-btsco                                0.50-0ubuntu2
Bluez Bluetooth SCO tool
ii  bluez-cups                                 3.9-0ubuntu4
Bluetooth printer driver for CUPS
ii  bluez-gnome                                0.6-1ubuntu3
Bluetooth utilities for GNOME
ii  bluez-hcidump                              1.33-0ubuntu1
Analyses Bluetooth HCI packets
ii  bluez-pin                                  0.30-2.1ubuntu3
Bluetooth PIN helper with D-BUS support
ii  bluez-utils                                3.9-0ubuntu4 

but no all of them are necessary.



On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 12:13 -0200, Manuel Naranjo wrote:
> bus api, not into the old hci lib api ;)


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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Manuel Naranjo]

> but How do you do the same using dbus serial??
>
>   

Like this http://wiki.bluez.org/wiki/HOWTO/SerialConnections

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Miguel]

and is it possible to access to a mobile profile bluetooth?

Is it possible to do via Java? (access to the mobile agenda, read
sms, ...)



On Tue, 2008-01-22 at 12:48 -0200, Manuel Naranjo wrote:
> > but How do you do the same using dbus serial??
> >
> >   
> 
> Like this http://wiki.bluez.org/wiki/HOWTO/SerialConnections
> 
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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Manuel Naranjo]

Miguel escribi=F3:
> and is it possible to access to a mobile profile bluetooth?
>   =

I'm not sure about it, it just opens an RFCOMM connection, I would say so.
> Is it possible to do via Java? (access to the mobile agenda, read
> sms, ...)
>   =

You might need to implement the a service of RFCOMM, or use any of the
dbus services that do it for you, there's a dbus binding for java.

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Frédéric]

Le 22/1/2008, "Manuel Naranjo" <manuel@aircable.net> a =E9crit:

>> but How do you do the same using dbus serial??
>
>Like this http://wiki.bluez.org/wiki/HOWTO/SerialConnections

It should do the same as the rfcomm connect command, if I understood
correctly Manuel. This is where I get an error, under debian. Miguel,
let me know if it works for you under ubuntu...

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Miguel]

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Re: [Bluez-users] Newbie needs help to start

[Frédéric]

Le 22/1/2008, "Miguel" <mc354@tid.es> a =E9crit:

>it works under ubuntu but I m getting several errors

Ok, so I'll have a look how it is configured under ubuntu...

>I m trying to connect a mobile phone from a laptop initializing the
>connection from the laptop as i have commented.
>
>It works with several mobile phones (maybe old ones) but with the N95 I
>get "disconnected" , I dont know why ...
>
>any Ideas??

I'm afraid I can't help you on this point :o/

--
    Fr=E9d=E9ric

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