* [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
@ 2004-10-07 17:07 Kyle Rose
2004-10-07 21:39 ` Marcel Holtmann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Rose @ 2004-10-07 17:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: bluez-users
On my AMD64 system (Tyan K8W, dual Opteron 244, logitech MX 900 mouse
and bluetooth cradle, linux-2.6.8.1 with patch-2.6.8-mh2), I have to
switch to VT, do "hidd --search", and hit both buttons (on the mouse
and on the cradle) every time I either reboot the machine or let it
sit for a while. Needless to say, this is pretty irritating.
What really bugs me is that this exact same hardware configuration
works in IA32 mode: when I reboot, I just hit the button on the mouse
and a few seconds later the mouse comes alive; and when I leave it sit
for a while, I just move it or hit a button and a few seconds later
the mouse comes back.
I've confirmed I've got hidd --server running.
Any insight?
Cheers,
Kyle
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-07 17:07 [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing Kyle Rose
@ 2004-10-07 21:39 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-07 21:49 ` Kyle Rose
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-10-07 21:39 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kyle Rose; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
Hi Kyle,
> On my AMD64 system (Tyan K8W, dual Opteron 244, logitech MX 900 mouse
> and bluetooth cradle, linux-2.6.8.1 with patch-2.6.8-mh2), I have to
> switch to VT, do "hidd --search", and hit both buttons (on the mouse
> and on the cradle) every time I either reboot the machine or let it
> sit for a while. Needless to say, this is pretty irritating.
>
> What really bugs me is that this exact same hardware configuration
> works in IA32 mode: when I reboot, I just hit the button on the mouse
> and a few seconds later the mouse comes alive; and when I leave it sit
> for a while, I just move it or hit a button and a few seconds later
> the mouse comes back.
this looks very weird. Especially the switching to the VT. Please try to
reproduce it with a 2.6.9-rc3-bk7 kernel.
Is the cradle in HID or in HCI mode? Do you see any other errors on
AMD64. I fixed some 64 bit bugs, but I can't remember that any of them
where in the HID stuff.
Run "hcidump -X" as root whenever possible so we can see if there are
wrong things.
Regards
Marcel
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-07 21:39 ` Marcel Holtmann
@ 2004-10-07 21:49 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-07 21:58 ` Marcel Holtmann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Rose @ 2004-10-07 21:49 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marcel Holtmann; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
Marcel Holtmann <marcel@holtmann.org> writes:
> this looks very weird. Especially the switching to the VT.
I guess I wasn't very specific here. I switch to VT because I can't
get to a terminal without a working mouse. :) It has nothing to do
with executing hidd --search from a VT vs. a pty.
> Please try to reproduce it with a 2.6.9-rc3-bk7 kernel.
Will do.
> Is the cradle in HID or in HCI mode?
Uh... this isn't something I've dealt with before. When I installed
bluez on the 32 bit system several months ago, I just turned on HIDP
support and it simply "worked." I didn't realize there were different
modes here. How do I switch the mode? Different module?
FWIW, "hcitool dev" gives "hci0 ...", suggesting it is in hci mode,
which probably isn't right.
> Run "hcidump -X" as root whenever possible so we can see if there are
> wrong things.
My hcidump doesn't recognize -X. This is a new option maybe? I'm
using the one from the Debian AMD64 alioth repository (1.10).
Cheers,
Kyle
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-07 21:49 ` Kyle Rose
@ 2004-10-07 21:58 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-07 22:07 ` Kyle Rose
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-10-07 21:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kyle Rose; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
Hi Kyle,
> > this looks very weird. Especially the switching to the VT.
>
> I guess I wasn't very specific here. I switch to VT because I can't
> get to a terminal without a working mouse. :) It has nothing to do
> with executing hidd --search from a VT vs. a pty.
this are good news, because otherwise the input subsystem may be broken.
> > Is the cradle in HID or in HCI mode?
>
> Uh... this isn't something I've dealt with before. When I installed
> bluez on the 32 bit system several months ago, I just turned on HIDP
> support and it simply "worked." I didn't realize there were different
> modes here. How do I switch the mode? Different module?
>
> FWIW, "hcitool dev" gives "hci0 ...", suggesting it is in hci mode,
> which probably isn't right.
If this is a Debian system then hid2hci will normaly run a boot time and
switch it from HID to HCI mode.
> > Run "hcidump -X" as root whenever possible so we can see if there are
> > wrong things.
>
> My hcidump doesn't recognize -X. This is a new option maybe? I'm
> using the one from the Debian AMD64 alioth repository (1.10).
Then use "-x". I think the "-X" option was introduced with 1.11 or so
and the Debian packages are a little bit behind.
Regards
Marcel
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-07 21:58 ` Marcel Holtmann
@ 2004-10-07 22:07 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-09 15:04 ` Kyle Rose
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Rose @ 2004-10-07 22:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marcel Holtmann; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
Marcel Holtmann <marcel@holtmann.org> writes:
> If this is a Debian system then hid2hci will normaly run a boot time and
> switch it from HID to HCI mode.
You are correct, and this is being run at boot time. However, I don't
think this does anything interesting in my case since I have USB
legacy support disabled in my BIOS as I have only a bluetooth mouse
and not a bluetooth keyboard, the former of which I don't need until
after Linux boots.
> Then use "-x". I think the "-X" option was introduced with 1.11 or so
> and the Debian packages are a little bit behind.
I'll have to do this when I get home, so I can move the mouse around
and see what I get.
Thanks,
Kyle
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-07 22:07 ` Kyle Rose
@ 2004-10-09 15:04 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-09 17:21 ` Marcel Holtmann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Rose @ 2004-10-09 15:04 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marcel Holtmann; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
>> Then use "-x". I think the "-X" option was introduced with 1.11 or so
>> and the Debian packages are a little bit behind.
>
> I'll have to do this when I get home, so I can move the mouse around
> and see what I get.
OK, so I'm now using 2.6.9-rc3-bk8, and I get the following when
moving the mouse around after the connection times out:
> HCI Event: Connect Request (0x04) plen 10
19 C4 14 61 07 00 80 25 00 01
< HCI Command: Accept Connection Request (0x01|0x0009) plen 7
19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> HCI Event: Command Status (0x0f) plen 4
00 01 09 04
> HCI Event: Link Key Request (0x17) plen 6
19 C4 14 61 07 00
< HCI Command: Link Key Request Negative Reply (0x01|0x000c) plen 6
19 C4 14 61 07 00
> HCI Event: Role Change (0x12) plen 8
00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> HCI Event: Command Complete (0x0e) plen 10
01 0C 04 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> HCI Event: PIN Code Request (0x16) plen 6
19 C4 14 61 07 00
< HCI Command: PIN Code Request Reply (0x01|0x000d) plen 23
19 C4 14 61 07 00 04 36 30 35 38 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00
> HCI Event: Command Complete (0x0e) plen 10
01 0D 04 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> HCI Event: Connect Complete (0x03) plen 11
18 2A 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 01 00
> HCI Event: Connect Request (0x04) plen 10
19 C4 14 61 07 00 80 25 00 01
< HCI Command: Accept Connection Request (0x01|0x0009) plen 7
19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> HCI Event: Command Status (0x0f) plen 4
00 01 09 04
> HCI Event: Role Change (0x12) plen 8
00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> HCI Event: Connect Complete (0x03) plen 11
17 2B 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 01 00
> HCI Event: Connect Request (0x04) plen 10
19 C4 14 61 07 00 80 25 00 01
< HCI Command: Accept Connection Request (0x01|0x0009) plen 7
19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> HCI Event: Command Status (0x0f) plen 4
00 01 09 04
> HCI Event: Link Key Request (0x17) plen 6
19 C4 14 61 07 00
< HCI Command: Link Key Request Negative Reply (0x01|0x000c) plen 6
19 C4 14 61 07 00
> HCI Event: Role Change (0x12) plen 8
00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> HCI Event: Command Complete (0x0e) plen 10
01 0C 04 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> HCI Event: PIN Code Request (0x16) plen 6
19 C4 14 61 07 00
< HCI Command: PIN Code Request Reply (0x01|0x000d) plen 23
19 C4 14 61 07 00 04 36 30 35 38 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00
> HCI Event: Command Complete (0x0e) plen 10
01 0D 04 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> HCI Event: Connect Complete (0x03) plen 11
18 2C 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 01 00
> HCI Event: Connect Request (0x04) plen 10
19 C4 14 61 07 00 80 25 00 01
< HCI Command: Accept Connection Request (0x01|0x0009) plen 7
19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> HCI Event: Command Status (0x0f) plen 4
00 01 09 04
> HCI Event: Role Change (0x12) plen 8
00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> HCI Event: Connect Complete (0x03) plen 11
17 2D 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 01 00
> HCI Event: Connect Request (0x04) plen 10
19 C4 14 61 07 00 80 25 00 01
< HCI Command: Accept Connection Request (0x01|0x0009) plen 7
19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> HCI Event: Command Status (0x0f) plen 4
00 01 09 04
> HCI Event: Role Change (0x12) plen 8
00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> HCI Event: Connect Complete (0x03) plen 11
17 2E 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 01 00
Cheers,
Kyle
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-09 15:04 ` Kyle Rose
@ 2004-10-09 17:21 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-09 19:45 ` Kyle Rose
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-10-09 17:21 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kyle Rose; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
Hi Kyle,
> OK, so I'm now using 2.6.9-rc3-bk8, and I get the following when
> moving the mouse around after the connection times out:
>
> > HCI Event: Connect Request (0x04) plen 10
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 80 25 00 01
> < HCI Command: Accept Connection Request (0x01|0x0009) plen 7
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> > HCI Event: Command Status (0x0f) plen 4
> 00 01 09 04
> > HCI Event: Link Key Request (0x17) plen 6
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> < HCI Command: Link Key Request Negative Reply (0x01|0x000c) plen 6
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> > HCI Event: Role Change (0x12) plen 8
> 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> > HCI Event: Command Complete (0x0e) plen 10
> 01 0C 04 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> > HCI Event: PIN Code Request (0x16) plen 6
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> < HCI Command: PIN Code Request Reply (0x01|0x000d) plen 23
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 04 36 30 35 38 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00
> > HCI Event: Command Complete (0x0e) plen 10
> 01 0D 04 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> > HCI Event: Connect Complete (0x03) plen 11
> 18 2A 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 01 00
> > HCI Event: Connect Request (0x04) plen 10
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 80 25 00 01
> < HCI Command: Accept Connection Request (0x01|0x0009) plen 7
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> > HCI Event: Command Status (0x0f) plen 4
> 00 01 09 04
> > HCI Event: Role Change (0x12) plen 8
> 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> > HCI Event: Connect Complete (0x03) plen 11
> 17 2B 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 01 00
> > HCI Event: Connect Request (0x04) plen 10
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 80 25 00 01
> < HCI Command: Accept Connection Request (0x01|0x0009) plen 7
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> > HCI Event: Command Status (0x0f) plen 4
> 00 01 09 04
> > HCI Event: Link Key Request (0x17) plen 6
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> < HCI Command: Link Key Request Negative Reply (0x01|0x000c) plen 6
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> > HCI Event: Role Change (0x12) plen 8
> 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> > HCI Event: Command Complete (0x0e) plen 10
> 01 0C 04 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> > HCI Event: PIN Code Request (0x16) plen 6
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> < HCI Command: PIN Code Request Reply (0x01|0x000d) plen 23
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 04 36 30 35 38 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
> 00 00 00
> > HCI Event: Command Complete (0x0e) plen 10
> 01 0D 04 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00
> > HCI Event: Connect Complete (0x03) plen 11
> 18 2C 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 01 00
> > HCI Event: Connect Request (0x04) plen 10
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 80 25 00 01
> < HCI Command: Accept Connection Request (0x01|0x0009) plen 7
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> > HCI Event: Command Status (0x0f) plen 4
> 00 01 09 04
> > HCI Event: Role Change (0x12) plen 8
> 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> > HCI Event: Connect Complete (0x03) plen 11
> 17 2D 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 01 00
> > HCI Event: Connect Request (0x04) plen 10
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 80 25 00 01
> < HCI Command: Accept Connection Request (0x01|0x0009) plen 7
> 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> > HCI Event: Command Status (0x0f) plen 4
> 00 01 09 04
> > HCI Event: Role Change (0x12) plen 8
> 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 00
> > HCI Event: Connect Complete (0x03) plen 11
> 17 2E 00 19 C4 14 61 07 00 01 00
are you sure that your settings are the same on both machine. Show us
the output of "hciconfig -a".
Regards
Marcel
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-09 17:21 ` Marcel Holtmann
@ 2004-10-09 19:45 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-09 22:12 ` Marcel Holtmann
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Rose @ 2004-10-09 19:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marcel Holtmann; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
> are you sure that your settings are the same on both machine. Show us
> the output of "hciconfig -a".
I did the diff between the 64-bit install and a different machine
running the 32-bit install to keep me from having to reboot. Here's
the diff:
--- /tmp/32.txt 2004-10-09 15:43:24.475967740 -0400
+++ /tmp/64.txt 2004-10-09 15:43:17.187060956 -0400
@@ -1,13 +1,13 @@
hci0: Type: USB
- BD Address: 00:07:61:07:2B:41 ACL MTU: 192:8 SCO MTU: 64:8
+ BD Address: 00:07:61:15:3C:79 ACL MTU: 192:8 SCO MTU: 64:8
UP RUNNING PSCAN ISCAN AUTH ENCRYPT
- RX bytes:683597 acl:41770 sco:0 events:1153 errors:0
- TX bytes:3189 acl:116 sco:0 commands:31 errors:0
+ RX bytes:516464 acl:36254 sco:0 events:733 errors:0
+ TX bytes:6111 acl:155 sco:0 commands:181 errors:0
Features: 0xff 0xff 0x0f 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
Packet type: DM1 DM3 DM5 DH1 DH3 DH5 HV1 HV2 HV3
Link policy: RSWITCH HOLD SNIFF PARK
Link mode: SLAVE ACCEPT
- Name: 'san-0'
+ Name: 'nausicaa-0'
Class: 0x000100
Service Classes: Unspecified
Device Class: Computer, Uncategorized
Only differences are where I would expect them (node name, status, and
bluetooth address).
Cheers,
Kyle
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-09 19:45 ` Kyle Rose
@ 2004-10-09 22:12 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-10 2:19 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-10 4:00 ` Kyle Rose
0 siblings, 2 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-10-09 22:12 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kyle Rose; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
Hi Kyle,
> > are you sure that your settings are the same on both machine. Show us
> > the output of "hciconfig -a".
>
> I did the diff between the 64-bit install and a different machine
> running the 32-bit install to keep me from having to reboot. Here's
> the diff:
>
> --- /tmp/32.txt 2004-10-09 15:43:24.475967740 -0400
> +++ /tmp/64.txt 2004-10-09 15:43:17.187060956 -0400
> @@ -1,13 +1,13 @@
> hci0: Type: USB
> - BD Address: 00:07:61:07:2B:41 ACL MTU: 192:8 SCO MTU: 64:8
> + BD Address: 00:07:61:15:3C:79 ACL MTU: 192:8 SCO MTU: 64:8
> UP RUNNING PSCAN ISCAN AUTH ENCRYPT
> - RX bytes:683597 acl:41770 sco:0 events:1153 errors:0
> - TX bytes:3189 acl:116 sco:0 commands:31 errors:0
> + RX bytes:516464 acl:36254 sco:0 events:733 errors:0
> + TX bytes:6111 acl:155 sco:0 commands:181 errors:0
> Features: 0xff 0xff 0x0f 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00
> Packet type: DM1 DM3 DM5 DH1 DH3 DH5 HV1 HV2 HV3
> Link policy: RSWITCH HOLD SNIFF PARK
> Link mode: SLAVE ACCEPT
> - Name: 'san-0'
> + Name: 'nausicaa-0'
> Class: 0x000100
> Service Classes: Unspecified
> Device Class: Computer, Uncategorized
>
> Only differences are where I would expect them (node name, status, and
> bluetooth address).
why do you enabled auth and encrypt? This is security mode 3. Disable it
and try again.
Regards
Marcel
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-09 22:12 ` Marcel Holtmann
@ 2004-10-10 2:19 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-10 7:57 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-10 4:00 ` Kyle Rose
1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Rose @ 2004-10-10 2:19 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marcel Holtmann; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
> why do you enabled auth and encrypt? This is security mode 3. Disable it
> and try again.
I guess my rebuttal is, "Why shouldn't it work with auth and encrypt
in 64 bit mode only?" :)
But, for sake of completeness I will try this with both turned off.
Cheers,
Kyle
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-10 2:19 ` Kyle Rose
@ 2004-10-10 7:57 ` Marcel Holtmann
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-10-10 7:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kyle Rose; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
Hi Kyle,
> > why do you enabled auth and encrypt? This is security mode 3. Disable it
> > and try again.
>
> I guess my rebuttal is, "Why shouldn't it work with auth and encrypt
> in 64 bit mode only?" :)
the security mode 3 can have some weird effects. You shouldn't use it
unless you really know what you are doing. I repeated this so often, but
actually it seems no one is really believing me.
Regards
Marcel
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-09 22:12 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-10 2:19 ` Kyle Rose
@ 2004-10-10 4:00 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-10 7:58 ` Marcel Holtmann
1 sibling, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Rose @ 2004-10-10 4:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marcel Holtmann; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
> why do you enabled auth and encrypt? This is security mode 3. Disable it
> and try again.
I just tried this with no auth or encrypt, and the same behavior
ensues.
Cheers,
Kyle
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-10 4:00 ` Kyle Rose
@ 2004-10-10 7:58 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-10 22:05 ` Kyle Rose
0 siblings, 1 reply; 14+ messages in thread
From: Marcel Holtmann @ 2004-10-10 7:58 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Kyle Rose; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
Hi Kyle,
> > why do you enabled auth and encrypt? This is security mode 3. Disable it
> > and try again.
>
> I just tried this with no auth or encrypt, and the same behavior
> ensues.
I never heard of a 64 bit bug in the HID support, but it seems that
there is one. I don't know if it is in the kernel or in the user space.
Do you tried the bluez-utils from CVS?
Regards
Marcel
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^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 14+ messages in thread
* Re: [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing
2004-10-10 7:58 ` Marcel Holtmann
@ 2004-10-10 22:05 ` Kyle Rose
0 siblings, 0 replies; 14+ messages in thread
From: Kyle Rose @ 2004-10-10 22:05 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Marcel Holtmann; +Cc: BlueZ Mailing List
Marcel Holtmann <marcel@holtmann.org> writes:
> Do you tried the bluez-utils from CVS?
Well, I'll be a sonofabitch. With the CVS bluez-utils, it works
fine. I'd be interested in figuring out what made the difference. I
may just try recompiling Debian's source package with gcc-3.4 to see
if the compiler makes the difference.
Thanks, Marcel.
Cheers,
Kyle
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2004-10-07 17:07 [Bluez-users] AMD64 HID pairing Kyle Rose
2004-10-07 21:39 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-07 21:49 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-07 21:58 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-07 22:07 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-09 15:04 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-09 17:21 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-09 19:45 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-09 22:12 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-10 2:19 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-10 7:57 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-10 4:00 ` Kyle Rose
2004-10-10 7:58 ` Marcel Holtmann
2004-10-10 22:05 ` Kyle Rose
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