Linux cryptographic layer development
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From: "George Spelvin" <linux@horizon.com>
To: linux@horizon.com, nhorman@tuxdriver.com
Cc: herbert@gondor.apana.org.au, jarod@redhat.com,
	linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org, stephan.mueller@atsec.com
Subject: Re: Is ansi_cprng.c supposed to be an implmentation of X9.31?
Date: 29 Nov 2014 14:32:05 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20141129193205.28874.qmail@ns.horizon.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20141129175856.GB15743@localhost.localdomain>

>> Other than enough implementation stupidities to make me scream
>> (particularly the "rand_data_valid" variable name which is actually a

> Its actually a counter of the number of valid random data bytes in the buffer
> being returned to a caller, as well as an index into the internal buffer from
> which to draw fresh random data.  Sorry if you don't get that, but it seems
> pretty clear.

As you can see, I ended up choosing less abrasive wording in the version I
*thought* was public; this got launched into the void while in draft form.
Sorry about that.

Oh, its use as an index into the read_data array is clear enough;
it's just that the fact that the number of valid bytes in that
array is DEFAULT_BLOCK_SZ - ctx->rand_data_valid seems "obviously
backward" to me.

You'd think "ctx->rand_data_valid = 0" would mean "no data is valid;
force update cycle next access", but nope...

> is that this is definitely NOT conformant with the X9.17/X9.31 spec.
 
> This is the document it was based of off:
> http://csrc.nist.gov/groups/STM/cavp/documents/rng/931rngext.pdf

Ah, I actually read that, but I didn't remember that the "Based on"
wording is a direct quote.

If you go to the original ANSI specs (which I've read in the past,
but din't have a web-accessible copy to link to), they're a bit
more explicit on the point.

> Please read more closely, the header clearly states this is a PRNG
> implementation, and a quick google search of the terms in the header bring up
> the document referenced above, with which this cprng is in compliance with.

Yes, it was quite clear that a strict reading of the comments said that
it was a PRNG, but I lost track of the fact that "Random Number Generator
Based on ANSI X9.31 Appendix A.2.4" was NIST's wording that was being
quoted, and was left with the impression that compliance to the ANSI spec
(which *does* call for a high resolution timestamp) was being implied.

I either wanted to provide the implied compliance or clarify the
absence of it.

> Sure, knock yourself out.  I don't consider it more or less valid to do so,
> but patches are welcome.

Coming right up!

> Definately keep the ability to support external setting of DT, as you
> can't pass any validation tests without it.

Yes, I've already figured that out when studying the impact of such a
change.  Since there's already special-case handling of with/without
a DT vector, that seemed the obvious thing to hook into.

The two changes that affected callers, which I didn't feel very confident
about my understanding of, were:
1. Changing the recommended seed size, and
2. Using actual random seed material.

The other one, which I have to think *very* hard about, is whether
using the same seed material as /dev/random in this much weaker
cryptographic construction will introduce a flaw in *it*.

  reply	other threads:[~2014-11-29 19:32 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 13+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2014-11-28 23:23 Is ansi_cprng.c supposed to be an implmentation of X9.31? George Spelvin
2014-11-29 17:58 ` Neil Horman
2014-11-29 19:32   ` George Spelvin [this message]
2014-11-30  1:16     ` Neil Horman
2014-11-30 14:36     ` Stephan Mueller
2014-12-02  4:55       ` George Spelvin
2014-12-02 13:22         ` Neil Horman
2014-12-02 17:56           ` George Spelvin
2014-11-30 14:31   ` Stephan Mueller
2014-11-30 14:26 ` Stephan Mueller
2014-12-02  5:39   ` George Spelvin
2014-12-02 13:44     ` Neil Horman
2014-12-02 19:43       ` George Spelvin

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