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From: Herve Codina <herve.codina@bootlin.com>
To: David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au>
Cc: Rob Herring <robh@kernel.org>,
	Krzysztof Kozlowski <krzk@kernel.org>,
	Conor Dooley <conor+dt@kernel.org>,
	Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>,
	David Lechner <dlechner@baylibre.com>,
	Ayush Singh <ayush@beagleboard.org>,
	Geert Uytterhoeven <geert@linux-m68k.org>,
	devicetree-compiler@vger.kernel.org, devicetree@vger.kernel.org,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, devicetree-spec@vger.kernel.org,
	Hui Pu <hui.pu@gehealthcare.com>,
	Ian Ray <ian.ray@gehealthcare.com>,
	Luca Ceresoli <luca.ceresoli@bootlin.com>,
	Thomas Petazzoni <thomas.petazzoni@bootlin.com>,
	Frank Li <Frank.Li@nxp.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 15/15] Introduce v18 dtb version
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2026 15:11:21 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20261019151121.26d99f30@bootlin.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <atGzdxETQZ9ovJFh@gractus.seuss>

Hi David,

On Fri, 16 Oct 2026 16:18:03 +1100
David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 13, 2026 at 07:03:47PM +0200, Herve Codina wrote:
> > Hi David, Rob,
> > 
> > On Tue, 13 Oct 2026 18:10:39 +1100
> > David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au> wrote:
> >   
> > > On Fri, Sep 25, 2026 at 03:21:57PM +0200, Herve Codina wrote:  
> > > > Hi David,
> > > > 
> > > > On Mon, 21 Sep 2026 16:20:02 +1000
> > > > David Gibson <david@gibson.dropbear.id.au> wrote:
> > > >     
> > > > > On Wed, Aug 26, 2026 at 10:31:46AM +0200, Herve Codina wrote:    
> > > > > > This v18 version will add support for
> > > > > >   - Structured tags.
> > > > > >     Those tags value definition will allow "old" libfdt, dtc and other
> > > > > >     tools to skip unknown tags if encountered in future dtb version.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >     libfdt, dtc and other tools implementing version v18 will be able to
> > > > > >     skip unknown tags available in dtbd generated with later version of
> > > > > >     dtc.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >   - dt_flags header field.
> > > > > >     For now this flag field is set to 0. It is a placeholder for future
> > > > > >     dtb version and could be used to store some dtb related information
> > > > > >     such as the kind of dtb. For instance, the future addons format will
> > > > > >     use this field to clearly identify that the dtb is an addon dtb.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > >   - last_comp_version_w header field.
> > > > > >     This field is similar to last_comp_version but for writing.
> > > > > >     It contains the lowest version of the devicetree data structure with
> > > > > >     which the version used can safely perform modifications (taking into
> > > > > >     account following rules related to unknown tags).
> > > > > >     If this lowest version is greater than the last known supported
> > > > > >     version, modification are simply forbidden and lead to a
> > > > > >     FDT_ERR_BADVERSION error.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > For modification, when an unknown tag that can be skipped is involved
> > > > > > and last_comp_version_w allows modifications, the following rules
> > > > > > apply:      
> > > > > 
> > > > > "last_comp_version_w allows modifications" is a bit hard to
> > > > > understand.  What exactly is the version number against which we're
> > > > > comparing that value?    
> > > > 
> > > > We had one last_comp_version.
> > > > 
> > > > Now we have two last_comp_version, one for reading and one for writing.
> > > > We compare again the dtb version supported by our libfdt version.
> > > > 
> > > > This comes from the discussion [1]
> > > > 
> > > > [1] https://lore.kernel.org/all/CAL_JsqLRrbZje_gGZPBDni6StFa+6rdiECtk49on8VfkP7CDvw@mail.gmail.com/    
> > > 
> > > Ok, I now see that the logic is you simply fail to proceed with writes
> > > if the library's latest understood version is < last_comp_version_w.
> > > 
> > > As I said elsewhere, this approach doesn't particularly make sense to
> > > me.  If lib_version >= last_comp_version you *can* write, even if it
> > > means stripping everything that's not understood at lib_version.
> > > 
> > > So the real question here is how do we know, for any given structured
> > > tag, what write operations require the version to be downgraded (which
> > > might in turn require this and/or other structured tags to be stripped
> > > entirely).  
> > 
> > The rules is well known.  
> 
> I really don't think they are.  You've proposed one set of rules (as
> code) - although I don't think they quite make sense.  I've proposed
> another.  Other variants are possible.
> 
> > An old libfdt version will strip the tag and
> > downgrade the version. If, when we define a new tags this rules cannot be
> > follow by olf libfdt version, last_comp_version_w will be set to protect
> > against modification.
> > 
> > Maybe the problem is just downgrading the version.
> > 
> > Instead of downgrading it could be better if we mark the dtb "one or more
> > 'unknown' tags have been removed due to a write by an old libfdt version" ?
> > 
> > We have a dt_flags header field. We can dedicate one bit for this marker.
> > 
> > Could it make sense ?  
> 
> I really dislike this idea.  It means we effectively have at least two
> variants of every version which strikes me as pretty confusing.
> 
> > > This is related to (though not the same as) the question of whether
> > > introducing a new structured tags requires a bump to the dtb version
> > > (though not to last_comp_version, of course).
> > > 
> > > Here's the simplest model I can think of.  It's what I'd suggest,
> > > unless one of it's limitations is a showstopper for what you have in mind:
> > > 
> > >  - version and last_comp_version retain their meanings.  No new header
> > >    version.
> > >  - New structured tags *do* require a new version.  If a dtb wants to
> > >    include a specific tag, it must label itself with a version that
> > >    defines that tag.  To enforce that:
> > >     - For read operations, if we encounter a (known) tag that
> > >       doesn't belong in the header version, we throw an error (either
> > >       BADSTRUCTURE, or a new error for the purpose).
> > >        - If version <= FDT_LAST_SUPPORTED_VERSION and we encounter an
> > >          unknown tag that also trips the error (since if it was
> > > 	 defined in this version, we should know about it).
> > >     - For write operations (including in-place), we always error if
> > >       version > FDT_LAST_SUPPORTED_VERSION (done in fdt_rw_probe_()).
> > >     - fdt_open_into() _is_ permitted if version > FDT_LAST_SUPPORTED_VERSION.
> > >       It will strip all unknown structured tags from the entire tree
> > >       and downgrade the version to FDT_LAST_SUPPORTED_VERSION.
> > > 

Ok, my proposal seems to be a no-go and so I will follow your proposal given
above.

Just to clarify, correct me if I am wrong.

When read if we encountered a skippable unknown tag (this is possible if
version > FDT_LAST_SUPPORTED_VERSION), we just skip the tag without any
error.

For write, "we always error if version > FDT_LAST_SUPPORTED_VERSION".
If fdt_open_into() has been called before the write operation, this will
not happen. Indeed, we have downgraded the version to FDT_LAST_SUPPORTED_VERSION
and removed all unknown skippable tags.

Also, during this downgrade process (downgrade version + remove skippable
unknown tags), if a unknown tag that cannot be skipped is found, the downgrade
process fails an return an error.

Best regards,
Hervé

  reply	other threads:[~2026-10-19 13:11 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-08-26  8:31 [PATCH v3 00/15] Add support for structured tags and v18 dtb version Herve Codina
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 01/15] fdtget: Use libfdt iterators instead of open coded loops Herve Codina
2026-08-27  3:55   ` David Gibson
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 02/15] libfdt: Don't assume the root node is available at offset 0 Herve Codina
2026-08-30  3:21   ` David Gibson
2026-08-31 12:01     ` Herve Codina
2026-09-01  7:42       ` David Gibson
2026-09-01 12:18         ` Herve Codina
2026-09-02  7:06           ` David Gibson
2026-09-07 16:46             ` Herve Codina
2026-09-08  6:41               ` David Gibson
2026-09-08  8:08                 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-09  6:18                   ` David Gibson
2026-09-09  6:58                     ` Herve Codina
2026-09-09  7:02                       ` David Gibson
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 03/15] tests: " Herve Codina
2026-09-01  8:03   ` David Gibson
2026-09-01 13:36     ` Herve Codina
2026-09-02  8:56       ` David Gibson
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 04/15] tests/nopulate: Add a FDT_NOP before the root node Herve Codina
2026-09-01  8:05   ` David Gibson
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 05/15] tests: treegen: Introduce emit_fdt_header_vers() Herve Codina
2026-09-09  6:38   ` David Gibson
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 06/15] Introduce structured tag value definition Herve Codina
2026-09-10  4:51   ` David Gibson
     [not found]     ` <20260910094126.4bf4cae6@bootlin.com>
2026-09-10  9:32       ` David Gibson
2026-09-11  7:16         ` Herve Codina
2026-09-12  2:34           ` David Gibson
2026-09-14 10:19             ` Herve Codina
2026-09-16  5:21               ` David Gibson
2026-09-17  7:04                 ` Herve Codina
2026-09-18  4:41                   ` David Gibson
2026-09-18  8:16                     ` Herve Codina
2026-09-19  4:22                       ` David Gibson
2026-09-22  6:41                         ` Herve Codina
2026-09-24  3:49                           ` David Gibson
2026-09-25 10:48                             ` Herve Codina
2026-09-26  1:49                               ` David Gibson
2026-09-10  5:33   ` David Gibson
2026-09-10  7:58     ` Herve Codina
2026-09-10  9:41       ` David Gibson
2026-09-11  7:53         ` Herve Codina
2026-09-12  2:35           ` David Gibson
2026-09-17  8:56             ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 07/15] fdtdump: Handle unknown tags Herve Codina
2026-09-10  5:25   ` David Gibson
2026-09-10  8:27     ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 08/15] flattree: " Herve Codina
2026-09-14  8:23   ` David Gibson
2026-09-15 10:16     ` Herve Codina
2026-09-15 11:52       ` David Gibson
2026-09-16  6:31         ` Herve Codina
2026-09-16  8:27           ` David Gibson
2026-09-17  7:11             ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 09/15] libfdt: Handle unknown tags in fdt_next_tag() Herve Codina
2026-09-16  9:10   ` David Gibson
2026-09-17  8:34     ` Herve Codina
2026-09-17  9:36       ` David Gibson
2026-09-17 17:28         ` Herve Codina
2026-09-19  4:46           ` David Gibson
2026-09-30 16:47             ` Herve Codina
2026-10-01  3:07               ` David Gibson
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 10/15] libfdt: Introduce fdt_ptr_offset_() Herve Codina
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 11/15] libfdt: Introduce fdt_getprop_by_offset_w() Herve Codina
2026-09-16  9:56   ` David Gibson
2026-09-16 10:42     ` Herve Codina
2026-09-17  4:52       ` David Gibson
2026-09-17  8:43         ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 12/15] libfdt: Introduce fdt_getprop_offset_namelen() Herve Codina
2026-09-21  6:07   ` David Gibson
2026-09-22 16:25     ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 13/15] tests: Add wip_func utility Herve Codina
2026-09-16 10:00   ` David Gibson
2026-09-16 17:27     ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 14/15] libfdt: Handle unknown tags on dtb modifications Herve Codina
2026-09-21  6:06   ` David Gibson
2026-09-25 12:40     ` Herve Codina
2026-09-28  4:39       ` David Gibson
2026-09-28 14:54         ` Herve Codina
2026-08-26  8:31 ` [PATCH v3 15/15] Introduce v18 dtb version Herve Codina
2026-09-21  6:20   ` David Gibson
2026-09-25 13:21     ` Herve Codina
2026-10-13  7:10       ` David Gibson
2026-10-13 17:03         ` Herve Codina
2026-10-16  5:18           ` David Gibson
2026-10-19 13:11             ` Herve Codina [this message]
2026-10-13 17:04         ` Ayush Singh
2026-10-13 17:23           ` Herve Codina
2026-10-13 19:49             ` Ayush Singh

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