debugging KISS basics

debugging KISS basics

[Chris Kantarjiev]

Sorry for the n00b questions, but: how do I go about debugging
the basic KISS functionality? As I said, I can talk to my
FTDI-based TNC with minicom and it works to control the radio
and pass packets in CONV mode. But any attempt to use, say,
the call program in KISS mode fails. 

Since it's a USB modem, I really don't have any good way to tap 
into the signal lines going to the TNC (and wouldn't know
how to interpret them). Are there options that I can use
to debug the communications?

And while I'm asking ... what's the typical way of putting
a TNC into KISS mode at boot time, and what do people use
to get things started from /etc/rc? I had sort of expected
to find a prototype /etc/init.d script for ax25d, but didn't...

73 de chris K6DBG

Re: debugging KISS basics

[Ray Wells]

Chris,

Wade through this document http://rose.fpac.free.fr/MINI-HOWTO/

Although it's primarily aimed at fpac, the underlying stuff is valid for 
any ax25 application.

Ray vk2tv

Chris Kantarjiev wrote:
> Sorry for the n00b questions, but: how do I go about debugging
> the basic KISS functionality? As I said, I can talk to my
> FTDI-based TNC with minicom and it works to control the radio
> and pass packets in CONV mode. But any attempt to use, say,
> the call program in KISS mode fails. 
>
> Since it's a USB modem, I really don't have any good way to tap 
> into the signal lines going to the TNC (and wouldn't know
> how to interpret them). Are there options that I can use
> to debug the communications?
>
> And while I'm asking ... what's the typical way of putting
> a TNC into KISS mode at boot time, and what do people use
> to get things started from /etc/rc? I had sort of expected
> to find a prototype /etc/init.d script for ax25d, but didn't...
>
> 73 de chris K6DBG
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hams" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
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>
>   

Re: debugging KISS basics

[Chris Kantarjiev]

> 
> 
> Wade through this document http://rose.fpac.free.fr/MINI-HOWTO/

Thanks, Ray - that was very useful for learning about config
and startup.

I'm still trying to figure out how to debug the fact that
my basic KISS commands won't cause the TNC to do anything...

73 de chris K6DBG

Re: debugging KISS basics

[Pidoux]

Chris,

When TNC is in KISS mode you cannot issue any more command to it.
Every data received are transparently transmitted (except the escape sequence for putting it back into TERMinal mode.)
Thus, you must set the TNC parameters (like the serial port speed, MYCALL, dual port mode if TNC3, and adjust different 
audio TX levels for once) before putting the TNC in kiss mode.
In addition, once AX25 driver is loaded, you cannot converse with TNC using your favorite Linux terminal communication 
program.
My option is to boot Linux system without AX25 drivers, configure TNC parameters, verify that you can listen to AX25 
traffic and connect to a local AX25 station using 1200 or 9600 baud port. Then, when you estimate your TNC is doing 
well, send it the escape sequence command to turn it into KISS mode.
You can leave it in KISS mode forever.
After that you are ready to load AX25 and mkiss drivers and run AX25 applications.
Listen utility will help you verify the TNC can pass through AX25 traffic.

73 de Bernard, f6bvp


Chris Kantarjiev a écrit :
>>
>> Wade through this document http://rose.fpac.free.fr/MINI-HOWTO/
> 
> Thanks, Ray - that was very useful for learning about config
> and startup.
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out how to debug the fact that
> my basic KISS commands won't cause the TNC to do anything...
> 
> 73 de chris K6DBG
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hams" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> 


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Re: debugging KISS basics

[Chris Kantarjiev]

> 
> When TNC is in KISS mode you cannot issue any more command to it.

You missed my point, I think. I wasn't trying to issue "command mode"
commands to it - I was trying to send KISS commands to it, with no
effect.

But I seem to be past that now - I can use "call" and "listen"
and it seems to work. Great progress...

Is there some command I can use from a shell scrip to set the
speed of the TTY, so I can send the KISS initialization script? Right
now, my TNC doesn't seem to preserve KISS mode across power cycles,
so I want to make sure it gets initialized at reboot...

73 de chris K6DBG

Re: debugging KISS basics

[Bill Vodall WA7NWP]

>> When TNC is in KISS mode you cannot issue any more command to it.
>
> You missed my point, I think. I wasn't trying to issue "command mode"
> commands to it - I was trying to send KISS commands to it, with no
> effect.

A new issue is showing up...    Fortunately we're getting new TNC's
that handle KISS..  Examples are the uTNT device Chris is using and
the OpenTracker 2.   Unfortunately these developers aren't following
the KISS specs and they're not completely standard.   Case in point is
the OpenTracker 2 KISS protocol which uses 3 Ctrl-C's to exit and
doesn't respond to any of the default KISS paramater setting commands.
  So the question here may be, does the uTNT follow the standard KISS
commands?

Bill - WA7NWP

Re: debugging KISS basics

[Ray Wells]

Pidoux wrote:
> Chris,
>
> When TNC is in KISS mode you cannot issue any more command to it.
> Every data received are transparently transmitted (except the escape 
> sequence for putting it back into TERMinal mode.)
> Thus, you must set the TNC parameters (like the serial port speed, 
> MYCALL, dual port mode if TNC3, and adjust different audio TX levels 
> for once) before putting the TNC in kiss mode.
> In addition, once AX25 driver is loaded, you cannot converse with TNC 
> using your favorite Linux terminal communication program.
> My option is to boot Linux system without AX25 drivers, configure TNC 
> parameters, verify that you can listen to AX25 traffic and connect to 
> a local AX25 station using 1200 or 9600 baud port. Then, when you 
> estimate your TNC is doing well, send it the escape sequence command 
> to turn it into KISS mode.
> You can leave it in KISS mode forever.
> After that you are ready to load AX25 and mkiss drivers and run AX25 
> applications.
> Listen utility will help you verify the TNC can pass through AX25 
> traffic.
>
> 73 de Bernard, f6bvp
>
>
> Chris Kantarjiev a écrit :
>>>
>>> Wade through this document http://rose.fpac.free.fr/MINI-HOWTO/
>>
>> Thanks, Ray - that was very useful for learning about config
>> and startup.
>>
>> I'm still trying to figure out how to debug the fact that
>> my basic KISS commands won't cause the TNC to do anything...
>>
>> 73 de chris K6DBG
>> -- 
>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hams" in
>> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>>
>
>
>
Bernard,

You didn't mention kissparms (man 8), the description of which says ...
"Kissparms is used to dynamically configure KISS TNCs that have been set 
up for AX25 use by kissattach. This program uses the packet interface to 
allow it to communicate with the KISS TNC without interrupting the AX25 
data stream. Therefore the KISS parameters may be set at any time during 
the operation of the AX25 port.

Chris, if your TNC is TNC2 compatible you might consider a KISS only 
EPROM. Then you know it's always in KISS. Also, the KISS implementation 
in a native mode TNC2 EPROM has terrible timing issues (not sending data 
to the radio, and then sending over the top of a received station were 
two significant issues I found. The KISS only unit doesn't have these 
problems.


Ray vk2tv
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Re: debugging KISS basics

[Chris Kantarjiev]

> 
> Chris, if your TNC is TNC2 compatible you might consider a KISS only 
> EPROM. Then you know it's always in KISS.

Thanks - an interesting idea, but it's not TNC2 hardware. This is
the second USB-connected TNC that Elcom Research did...

I'm trying to get them to tell me how via their support email list.
So far, I've got a script that tries to put it into KISS mode at boot.

Re: debugging KISS basics

[Bill Vodall WA7NWP]

Here's KISS chiseled in stone..   Ask Elcom which of the section 4
parameters it supports.   In particular, ask if it supports the
"required" parameters...

  http://www.ka9q.net/papers/kiss.html

On Sun, Nov 30, 2008 at 3:34 PM, Chris Kantarjiev <cak@dimebank.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Chris, if your TNC is TNC2 compatible you might consider a KISS only
>> EPROM. Then you know it's always in KISS.
>
> Thanks - an interesting idea, but it's not TNC2 hardware. This is
> the second USB-connected TNC that Elcom Research did...
>
> I'm trying to get them to tell me how via their support email list.
> So far, I've got a script that tries to put it into KISS mode at boot.

Re: debugging KISS basics

[Ray Wells]

Chris,

I use KISS only EPROMs so can't offer any help re the TNC. You may find 
this HOWTO provides some useful kernel ax25 info.

http://rose.fpac.free.fr/MINI-HOWTO/

Don't be put off by the title.

Ray vk2tv

Chris Kantarjiev wrote:
> Sorry for the n00b questions, but: how do I go about debugging
> the basic KISS functionality? As I said, I can talk to my
> FTDI-based TNC with minicom and it works to control the radio
> and pass packets in CONV mode. But any attempt to use, say,
> the call program in KISS mode fails. 
>
> Since it's a USB modem, I really don't have any good way to tap 
> into the signal lines going to the TNC (and wouldn't know
> how to interpret them). Are there options that I can use
> to debug the communications?
>
> And while I'm asking ... what's the typical way of putting
> a TNC into KISS mode at boot time, and what do people use
> to get things started from /etc/rc? I had sort of expected
> to find a prototype /etc/init.d script for ax25d, but didn't...
>
> 73 de chris K6DBG
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-hams" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>
>   

Re: debugging KISS basics

[Ray Wells]

Bugger, ignore my previous, I just replied to an old message.

We can't all be bright early Sunday morning.

Ray vk2tv

Chris Kantarjiev wrote:
>> Wade through this document http://rose.fpac.free.fr/MINI-HOWTO/
>>     
>
> Thanks, Ray - that was very useful for learning about config
> and startup.
>
> I'm still trying to figure out how to debug the fact that
> my basic KISS commands won't cause the TNC to do anything...
>
> 73 de chris K6DBG
>
>   

Re: debugging KISS basics

[Alan Crosswell]

Chris,

Have you considered using a soundmodem instead of that 1980's  
technology TNC?  With a sound card and parallel or serial port for PTT  
you can get better results than most TNCs.

I run 3, soon to be 4 digipeaters 7x24 with both PCI and USB sound  
cards.
/a


On Aug 29, 2009, at 6:25 PM, Ray Wells <vk2tv@exemail.com.au> wrote:

> Chris,
>
> I use KISS only EPROMs so can't offer any help re the TNC. You may  
> find this HOWTO provides some useful kernel ax25 info.
>
> http://rose.fpac.free.fr/MINI-HOWTO/
>
> Don't be put off by the title.
>
> Ray vk2tv
>
> Chris Kantarjiev wrote:
>> Sorry for the n00b questions, but: how do I go about debugging
>> the basic KISS functionality? As I said, I can talk to my
>> FTDI-based TNC with minicom and it works to control the radio
>> and pass packets in CONV mode. But any attempt to use, say,
>> the call program in KISS mode fails.
>> Since it's a USB modem, I really don't have any good way to tap  
>> into the signal lines going to the TNC (and wouldn't know
>> how to interpret them). Are there options that I can use
>> to debug the communications?
>>
>> And while I'm asking ... what's the typical way of putting
>> a TNC into KISS mode at boot time, and what do people use
>> to get things started from /etc/rc? I had sort of expected
>> to find a prototype /etc/init.d script for ax25d, but didn't...
>>
>> 73 de chris K6DBG
>> --
>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux- 
>> hams" in
>> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>>
>>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux- 
> hams" in
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>
>

Re: debugging KISS basics

[Frank Smith]

Have you tried using 'strace' to see what data is being sent to and  
received from the TNC?

On 2009-08-29, at 7:25 PM, Ray Wells <vk2tv@exemail.com.au> wrote:

> Chris,
>
> I use KISS only EPROMs so can't offer any help re the TNC. You may  
> find this HOWTO provides some useful kernel ax25 info.
>
> http://rose.fpac.free.fr/MINI-HOWTO/
>
> Don't be put off by the title.
>
> Ray vk2tv
>
> Chris Kantarjiev wrote:
>> Sorry for the n00b questions, but: how do I go about debugging
>> the basic KISS functionality? As I said, I can talk to my
>> FTDI-based TNC with minicom and it works to control the radio
>> and pass packets in CONV mode. But any attempt to use, say,
>> the call program in KISS mode fails.
>> Since it's a USB modem, I really don't have any good way to tap  
>> into the signal lines going to the TNC (and wouldn't know
>> how to interpret them). Are there options that I can use
>> to debug the communications?
>>
>> And while I'm asking ... what's the typical way of putting
>> a TNC into KISS mode at boot time, and what do people use
>> to get things started from /etc/rc? I had sort of expected
>> to find a prototype /etc/init.d script for ax25d, but didn't...
>>
>> 73 de chris K6DBG
>> --
>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux- 
>> hams" in
>> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>>
>>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux- 
> hams" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
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Re: debugging KISS basics

[Frank Smith]

I second that. I like the USB audio dongles in particular. My current  
project is to get soundmodem running on an Asus router (one with a USB  
port).

On 2009-08-29, at 8:11 PM, Alan Crosswell <alan@columbia.edu> wrote:

> Chris,
>
> Have you considered using a soundmodem instead of that 1980's  
> technology TNC?  With a sound card and parallel or serial port for  
> PTT you can get better results than most TNCs.
>
> I run 3, soon to be 4 digipeaters 7x24 with both PCI and USB sound  
> cards.
> /a
>
>
> On Aug 29, 2009, at 6:25 PM, Ray Wells <vk2tv@exemail.com.au> wrote:
>
>> Chris,
>>
>> I use KISS only EPROMs so can't offer any help re the TNC. You may  
>> find this HOWTO provides some useful kernel ax25 info.
>>
>> http://rose.fpac.free.fr/MINI-HOWTO/
>>
>> Don't be put off by the title.
>>
>> Ray vk2tv
>>
>> Chris Kantarjiev wrote:
>>> Sorry for the n00b questions, but: how do I go about debugging
>>> the basic KISS functionality? As I said, I can talk to my
>>> FTDI-based TNC with minicom and it works to control the radio
>>> and pass packets in CONV mode. But any attempt to use, say,
>>> the call program in KISS mode fails.
>>> Since it's a USB modem, I really don't have any good way to tap  
>>> into the signal lines going to the TNC (and wouldn't know
>>> how to interpret them). Are there options that I can use
>>> to debug the communications?
>>>
>>> And while I'm asking ... what's the typical way of putting
>>> a TNC into KISS mode at boot time, and what do people use
>>> to get things started from /etc/rc? I had sort of expected
>>> to find a prototype /etc/init.d script for ax25d, but didn't...
>>>
>>> 73 de chris K6DBG
>>> --
>>> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux- 
>>> hams" in
>>> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>>> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
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>> hams" in
>> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
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>>
>>
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