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* Re: [PATCH v2 0/5] mm/memfd: MFD_NOEXEC for memfd_create
       [not found] <20220805222126.142525-1-jeffxu@google.com>
@ 2022-08-08 17:46 ` Kees Cook
  2022-11-01 23:14   ` Jeff Xu
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Kees Cook @ 2022-08-08 17:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: jeffxu
  Cc: skhan, akpm, dmitry.torokhov, dverkamp, hughd, jorgelo,
	linux-kernel, linux-kselftest, linux-mm, mnissler, jannh, Jeff Xu,
	linux-hardening, Aleksa Sarai, dev, Christian Brauner

On Fri, Aug 05, 2022 at 10:21:21PM +0000, jeffxu@google.com wrote:
> This v2 series MFD_NOEXEC, this series includes:
> 1> address comments in V1
> 2> add sysctl (vm.mfd_noexec) to change the default file permissions
>     of memfd_create to be non-executable.
> 
> Below are cover-level for v1:
> 
> The default file permissions on a memfd include execute bits, which
> means that such a memfd can be filled with a executable and passed to
> the exec() family of functions. This is undesirable on systems where all
> code is verified and all filesystems are intended to be mounted noexec,
> since an attacker may be able to use a memfd to load unverified code and
> execute it.

I would absolutely like to see some kind of protection here. However,
I'd like a more specific threat model. What are the cases where the X
bit has been abused (e.g.[1])? What are the cases where the X bit is
needed (e.g.[2])? With those in mind, it should be possible to draw
a clear line between the two cases. (e.g. we need to avoid a confused
deputy attack where an "unprivileged" user can pass an executable memfd
to a "privileged" user. How those privileges are defined may matter a
lot based on how memfds are being used. For example, can runc's use of
executable memfds be distinguished from an attacker's?)

> Additionally, execution via memfd is a common way to avoid scrutiny for
> malicious code, since it allows execution of a program without a file
> ever appearing on disk. This attack vector is not totally mitigated with
> this new flag, since the default memfd file permissions must remain
> executable to avoid breaking existing legitimate uses, but it should be
> possible to use other security mechanisms to prevent memfd_create calls
> without MFD_NOEXEC on systems where it is known that executable memfds
> are not necessary.

This reminds me of dealing with non-executable stacks. There ended up
being three states:

- requested to be executable (PT_GNU_STACK X)
- requested to be non-executable (PT_GNU_STACK NX)
- undefined (no PT_GNU_STACK)

The first two are clearly defined, but the third needed a lot of special
handling. For a "safe by default" world, the third should be "NX", but
old stuff depended on it being "X".

Here, we have a bit being present or not, so we only have a binary
state. I'd much rather the default be NX (no bit set) instead of making
every future (safe) user of memfd have to specify MFD_NOEXEC.

It's also easier on a filtering side to say "disallow memfd_create with
MFD_EXEC", but how do we deal with the older software?

If the default perms of memfd_create()'s exec bit is controlled by a
sysctl and the sysctl is set to "leave it executable", how does a user
create an NX memfd? (i.e. setting MFD_EXEC means "exec" and not setting
it means "exec" also.) Are two bits needed? Seems wasteful.
MFD_I_KNOW_HOW_TO_SET_EXEC | MFD_EXEC, etc...

For F_SEAL_EXEC, it seems this should imply F_SEAL_WRITE if forced
executable to avoid WX mappings (i.e. provide W^X from the start).

-Kees

[1] https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=type%3Dbug-security%20memfd%20escalation&can=1
[2] https://lwn.net/Articles/781013/

-- 
Kees Cook

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH v2 0/5] mm/memfd: MFD_NOEXEC for memfd_create
  2022-08-08 17:46 ` [PATCH v2 0/5] mm/memfd: MFD_NOEXEC for memfd_create Kees Cook
@ 2022-11-01 23:14   ` Jeff Xu
  2022-11-02  2:45     ` Kees Cook
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Jeff Xu @ 2022-11-01 23:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kees Cook
  Cc: jeffxu, skhan, akpm, dmitry.torokhov, dverkamp, hughd, jorgelo,
	linux-kernel, linux-kselftest, linux-mm, mnissler, jannh,
	linux-hardening, Aleksa Sarai, dev, Christian Brauner

Hi Kees

Sorry for the long overdue reply.

Those questions are really helpful  to understand the usage of memfd_create,
I will try to answer them, please see below inline.

On Mon, Aug 8, 2022 at 10:46 AM Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Aug 05, 2022 at 10:21:21PM +0000, jeffxu@google.com wrote:
> > This v2 series MFD_NOEXEC, this series includes:
> > 1> address comments in V1
> > 2> add sysctl (vm.mfd_noexec) to change the default file permissions
> >     of memfd_create to be non-executable.
> >
> > Below are cover-level for v1:
> >
> > The default file permissions on a memfd include execute bits, which
> > means that such a memfd can be filled with a executable and passed to
> > the exec() family of functions. This is undesirable on systems where all
> > code is verified and all filesystems are intended to be mounted noexec,
> > since an attacker may be able to use a memfd to load unverified code and
> > execute it.
>
> I would absolutely like to see some kind of protection here. However,
> I'd like a more specific threat model. What are the cases where the X
> bit has been abused (e.g.[1])? What are the cases where the X bit is
> needed (e.g.[2])? With those in mind, it should be possible to draw
> a clear line between the two cases. (e.g. we need to avoid a confused
> deputy attack where an "unprivileged" user can pass an executable memfd
> to a "privileged" user. How those privileges are defined may matter a
> lot based on how memfds are being used. For example, can runc's use of
> executable memfds be distinguished from an attacker's?)
>
runc needs memfd to be executable, so the host with runc need to be able to
create both non-executable memfd and executable memfd.
memfd_create API itself can't enforce the security of how it is being used.

> > Additionally, execution via memfd is a common way to avoid scrutiny for
> > malicious code, since it allows execution of a program without a file
> > ever appearing on disk. This attack vector is not totally mitigated with
> > this new flag, since the default memfd file permissions must remain
> > executable to avoid breaking existing legitimate uses, but it should be
> > possible to use other security mechanisms to prevent memfd_create calls
> > without MFD_NOEXEC on systems where it is known that executable memfds
> > are not necessary.
>
> This reminds me of dealing with non-executable stacks. There ended up
> being three states:
>
> - requested to be executable (PT_GNU_STACK X)
> - requested to be non-executable (PT_GNU_STACK NX)
> - undefined (no PT_GNU_STACK)
>
> The first two are clearly defined, but the third needed a lot of special
> handling. For a "safe by default" world, the third should be "NX", but
> old stuff depended on it being "X".
>
> Here, we have a bit being present or not, so we only have a binary
> state. I'd much rather the default be NX (no bit set) instead of making
> every future (safe) user of memfd have to specify MFD_NOEXEC.
>
> It's also easier on a filtering side to say "disallow memfd_create with
> MFD_EXEC", but how do we deal with the older software?
>
> If the default perms of memfd_create()'s exec bit is controlled by a
> sysctl and the sysctl is set to "leave it executable", how does a user
> create an NX memfd? (i.e. setting MFD_EXEC means "exec" and not setting
> it means "exec" also.) Are two bits needed? Seems wasteful.
> MFD_I_KNOW_HOW_TO_SET_EXEC | MFD_EXEC, etc...
>
Great points,  with those questions and usages in mind, I m thinking below:

1> memfd_create:
Add two flags:
#define MFD_EXEC                      0x0008
#define MFD_NOEXEC _SEAL    0x0010
This lets application to set executable bit explicitly.
(If application set both, it will be rejected)

2> For old application that doesn't set executable bit:
Add a pid name-spaced sysctl.kernel.pid_mfd_noexec, with:
value = 0: Default_EXEC
     Honor MFD_EXEC and MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL
     When none is set, will fall back to original behavior (EXEC)
value = 1: Default_NOEXEC_SEAL
      Honor MFD_EXEC and MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL
      When none is set, will default to MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL

3> Add a pid name-spaced sysctl kernel.pid_mfd_noexec_enforced: with:
value = 0: default, not enforced.
value = 1: enforce NOEXEC_SEAL (overwrite everything)

Then we can use and secure memfd at host and container as below:
At host level:
Case A> In secure by default system where doesn't allow executable memfd:
sysctl.kernel.pid_mfd_noexec_enforced = 1
LSM to block creation of executable memfd  system wide.
This requires a new hook: secure_memfd_create

Case B> In system that need both (runc case),
use sysctl kernel.pid_mfd_noexec = 0/1 during converting application to new API.
SELINUX or landlock to sandbox the process.(requires work).

At container level:
It would be nice for container to control creation of executable memfd too.
This is through  sysctl kernel.pid_mfd_noexec_enforced
This lets runc to create two type of contains:
one with ability to create executable memfd, one without.

The sysctl.kernel.pid_mfd_noexec sets the default value, it is helpful
during  applications are being migrated to set the executable bit.
 Alternatively, we can have a new syscall: memfd_create2, where it is mandatary
to set executable bit (or default to NOEXEC_SEAL),  then
sysctl.kernel.pid_mfd_noexec
is not needed.

> For F_SEAL_EXEC, it seems this should imply F_SEAL_WRITE if forced
> executable to avoid WX mappings (i.e. provide W^X from the start).
>
Yes. I agree.

Thanks!
Best regards,
Jeff Xu


> -Kees
>
> [1] https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/list?q=type%3Dbug-security%20memfd%20escalation&can=1
> [2] https://lwn.net/Articles/781013/
>
> --
> Kees Cook

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH v2 0/5] mm/memfd: MFD_NOEXEC for memfd_create
  2022-11-01 23:14   ` Jeff Xu
@ 2022-11-02  2:45     ` Kees Cook
  2022-11-02 17:18       ` Jeff Xu
  0 siblings, 1 reply; 4+ messages in thread
From: Kees Cook @ 2022-11-02  2:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Jeff Xu
  Cc: jeffxu, skhan, akpm, dmitry.torokhov, dverkamp, hughd, jorgelo,
	linux-kernel, linux-kselftest, linux-mm, mnissler, jannh,
	linux-hardening, Aleksa Sarai, dev, Christian Brauner

On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 04:14:39PM -0700, Jeff Xu wrote:
> Sorry for the long overdue reply.

No worries! I am a fan of thread necromancy. :)

> [...]
> 1> memfd_create:
> Add two flags:
> #define MFD_EXEC                      0x0008
> #define MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL    0x0010
> This lets application to set executable bit explicitly.
> (If application set both, it will be rejected)

So no MFD_NOEXEC without seal? (I'm fine with that.)

> 2> For old application that doesn't set executable bit:
> Add a pid name-spaced sysctl.kernel.pid_mfd_noexec, with:

bikeshed: vm.memfd_noexec
(doesn't belong in "kernel", and seems better suited to "vm" than "fs")

> value = 0: Default_EXEC
>      Honor MFD_EXEC and MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL
>      When none is set, will fall back to original behavior (EXEC)

Yeah. Rephrasing for myself to understand more clearly:

"memfd_create() without MFD_EXEC nor MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL act like MFD_EXEC
was set."

> value = 1: Default_NOEXEC_SEAL
>       Honor MFD_EXEC and MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL
>       When none is set, will default to MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL

"memfd_create() without MFD_EXEC nor MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL act like
MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL was set."

Also, I think there should be a pr_warn_ratelimited() when
memfd_create() is used without either bit, so that there is some
pressure to please adjust their API calls to explicitly set a bit.

> 3> Add a pid name-spaced sysctl kernel.pid_mfd_noexec_enforced: with:
> value = 0: default, not enforced.
> value = 1: enforce NOEXEC_SEAL (overwrite everything)

How about making this just mode "value 2" for the first sysctl?
"memfd_create() without MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL will be rejected."

-Kees

-- 
Kees Cook

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

* Re: [PATCH v2 0/5] mm/memfd: MFD_NOEXEC for memfd_create
  2022-11-02  2:45     ` Kees Cook
@ 2022-11-02 17:18       ` Jeff Xu
  0 siblings, 0 replies; 4+ messages in thread
From: Jeff Xu @ 2022-11-02 17:18 UTC (permalink / raw)
  To: Kees Cook
  Cc: jeffxu, skhan, akpm, dmitry.torokhov, dverkamp, hughd, jorgelo,
	linux-kernel, linux-kselftest, linux-mm, mnissler, jannh,
	linux-hardening, Aleksa Sarai, dev, Christian Brauner

On Tue, Nov 1, 2022 at 7:45 PM Kees Cook <keescook@chromium.org> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 01, 2022 at 04:14:39PM -0700, Jeff Xu wrote:
> > Sorry for the long overdue reply.
>
> No worries! I am a fan of thread necromancy. :)
>
> > [...]
> > 1> memfd_create:
> > Add two flags:
> > #define MFD_EXEC                      0x0008
> > #define MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL    0x0010
> > This lets application to set executable bit explicitly.
> > (If application set both, it will be rejected)
>
> So no MFD_NOEXEC without seal? (I'm fine with that.)
>
no MFD_NOEXEC because memfd can be chmod to add x after creation,
it is not secure.

no MFD_EXEC_SEAL because it is better to apply both w and x seal
within the same function call, and w seal can't be applied at creation time.

> > 2> For old application that doesn't set executable bit:
> > Add a pid name-spaced sysctl.kernel.pid_mfd_noexec, with:
>
> bikeshed: vm.memfd_noexec
> (doesn't belong in "kernel", and seems better suited to "vm" than "fs")
>
SG, will use vm.memfd_noexec

> > value = 0: Default_EXEC
> >      Honor MFD_EXEC and MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL
> >      When none is set, will fall back to original behavior (EXEC)
>
> Yeah. Rephrasing for myself to understand more clearly:
>
> "memfd_create() without MFD_EXEC nor MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL act like MFD_EXEC
> was set."
>
> > value = 1: Default_NOEXEC_SEAL
> >       Honor MFD_EXEC and MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL
> >       When none is set, will default to MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL
>
> "memfd_create() without MFD_EXEC nor MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL act like
> MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL was set."
>
Copy, this is clearer. Thanks.

> Also, I think there should be a pr_warn_ratelimited() when
> memfd_create() is used without either bit, so that there is some
> pressure to please adjust their API calls to explicitly set a bit.
>
Sure

> > 3> Add a pid name-spaced sysctl kernel.pid_mfd_noexec_enforced: with:
> > value = 0: default, not enforced.
> > value = 1: enforce NOEXEC_SEAL (overwrite everything)
>
> How about making this just mode "value 2" for the first sysctl?
> "memfd_create() without MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL will be rejected."
>
Good point. Kernel overwriting  might not be a good practice.
I will add to vm.mfd_noexec.
value = 2: "memfd_create() without MFD_NOEXEC_SEAL will be rejected."

Thanks!
Jeff

> -Kees
>
> --
> Kees Cook

^ permalink raw reply	[flat|nested] 4+ messages in thread

end of thread, other threads:[~2022-11-02 17:18 UTC | newest]

Thread overview: 4+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed
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     [not found] <20220805222126.142525-1-jeffxu@google.com>
2022-08-08 17:46 ` [PATCH v2 0/5] mm/memfd: MFD_NOEXEC for memfd_create Kees Cook
2022-11-01 23:14   ` Jeff Xu
2022-11-02  2:45     ` Kees Cook
2022-11-02 17:18       ` Jeff Xu

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