m68k chat 21st Aug 2020 - "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on the Amiga"

m68k chat 21st Aug 2020 - "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on the Amiga"

[Carsten Strotmann]

Hi,

the upcoming m68k developers evening chat is on

Friday 21st August 2020, 20:00 H CEST (6:00 PM UTC)

Location <https://meet.m68k.info/m68k> (will be online 30 minutes 
before
the chat starts)

We will have a short demo: "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari 
Software on
the Amiga" and discuss the experiences of running Atari software 
on the
Amiga (might the reverse be possible too --> running AmigaOS 
command
line binaries on TOS?)

The schedule for the m68k chats can be found at 
<https://m68k.info>

CU

Carsten

Re: m68k chat 21st Aug 2020 - "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on the Amiga"

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi Carsten!

On 8/12/20 10:17 AM, Carsten Strotmann wrote:
> the upcoming m68k developers evening chat is on
> 
> Friday 21st August 2020, 20:00 H CEST (6:00 PM UTC)
> 
> Location <https://meet.m68k.info/m68k> (will be online 30 minutes before
> the chat starts)
> 
> We will have a short demo: "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on
> the Amiga" and discuss the experiences of running Atari software on the
> Amiga (might the reverse be possible too --> running AmigaOS command
> line binaries on TOS?)
> 
> The schedule for the m68k chats can be found at <https://m68k.info>

Sounds awesome. Thanks for organizing this. Looking forward.

Adrian

-- 
 .''`.  John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' :  Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
`. `'   Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
  `-    GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546  0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

Re: m68k chat 21st Aug 2020 - "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on the Amiga"

[Geert Uytterhoeven]

Hi Carsten,

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:17 AM Carsten Strotmann <cas@strotmann.de> wrote:
> We will have a short demo: "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari
> Software on
> the Amiga" and discuss the experiences of running Atari software
> on the
> Amiga (might the reverse be possible too --> running AmigaOS
> command
> line binaries on TOS?)

Why not?

There did exist a small AmigaOS emulator for Amiga UNIX, basically
implementing a hunk loader and a few exec.library and dos.library calls.
This was rumored to be sufficient to run e.g. the SAS C compiler.
I tried it once on Linux/m68k, and it could run a simple Hello World.

The only entrypoint you need to provide to run AmigaOS binaries is a
pointer to ExecBase at address 4.  If TOS doesn't use that location for
something else, you can implement AmigaOS support.

Good luck! ;-)

Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

                        Geert

-- 
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
                                -- Linus Torvalds

Re: m68k chat 21st Aug 2020 - "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on the Amiga"

[Karoly Balogh (Charlie/SGR)]

Hi,

On Wed, 12 Aug 2020, Carsten Strotmann wrote:

> Friday 21st August 2020, 20:00 H CEST (6:00 PM UTC)
>
> Location <https://meet.m68k.info/m68k> (will be online 30 minutes before
> the chat starts)
>
> We will have a short demo: "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on
> the Amiga" and discuss the experiences of running Atari software on the
> Amiga (might the reverse might possible too --> running AmigaOS command
> line binaries on TOS?)

Is it possible to run EmuTOS as an AmigaOS "task" already? I know it can
run standalone on various Amiga (and Amiga-related) hardware, but the real
fun - for me anyway - would be to run it alongside AmigaOS. Maybe in a
lightweight VM, like Shapeshifter for MacOS, but course EmuTOS could even
provide such infrastructure for itself. I once even looked at the EmuTOS
code to figure this out, but I never went anywhere with it, because I
realized all the EmuTOS drivers are basically banging the Amiga HW, and
ignore the entire Kickstart.. (Which is understandable from EmuTOS PoV,
but if I want to run it on top of AmigaOS, it means all drivers/etc needs
to be rewritten, which was a much bigger project than I was willing to
take on at that point. Also FIXME, if I was wrong on this.)

I think the main challenge would be sharing the lower 4/8K of RAM, mainly
for TRAP vectors, but exactly for things like Shapeshifter, there's
already a way to handle that. But of course I don't know about various
other Atari-related complications, handling of ST vs. TT RAM, etc.

Overall, I don't know. Just brainstorming. Opinions? :)

Charlie

Re: m68k chat 21st Aug 2020 - "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on the Amiga"

[Geert Uytterhoeven]

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 10:30 AM Geert Uytterhoeven
<geert@linux-m68k.org> wrote:
> There did exist a small AmigaOS emulator for Amiga UNIX, basically
> implementing a hunk loader and a few exec.library and dos.library calls.
> This was rumored to be sufficient to run e.g. the SAS C compiler.
> I tried it once on Linux/m68k, and it could run a simple Hello World.
>
> The only entrypoint you need to provide to run AmigaOS binaries is a
> pointer to ExecBase at address 4.  If TOS doesn't use that location for
> something else, you can implement AmigaOS support.
>
> Good luck! ;-)

FTR:

https://web.archive.org/web/20000304080628/http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~geert/bin/ados_linux.tar.gz


Gr{oetje,eeting}s,

                        Geert

-- 
Geert Uytterhoeven -- There's lots of Linux beyond ia32 -- geert@linux-m68k.org

In personal conversations with technical people, I call myself a hacker. But
when I'm talking to journalists I just say "programmer" or something like that.
                                -- Linus Torvalds

Re: m68k chat 21st Aug 2020 - "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on the Amiga"

[Karoly Balogh (Charlie/SGR)]

Hi,

On Wed, 12 Aug 2020, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:

> > There did exist a small AmigaOS emulator for Amiga UNIX, basically
> > implementing a hunk loader and a few exec.library and dos.library calls.
> > This was rumored to be sufficient to run e.g. the SAS C compiler.
> > I tried it once on Linux/m68k, and it could run a simple Hello World.
> >
> > The only entrypoint you need to provide to run AmigaOS binaries is a
> > pointer to ExecBase at address 4.  If TOS doesn't use that location for
> > something else, you can implement AmigaOS support.
> >
> > Good luck! ;-)
>
> FTR:
>
> https://web.archive.org/web/20000304080628/http://www.cs.kuleuven.ac.be/~geert/bin/ados_linux.tar.gz

There's also vamos, which even sports a 68k emulator (it has Musashi
built in), so you can run SAS/C and similar command line Amiga software on
non-68k hardware.

It's in this repo, mixed up with a bunch of other interesting tools, like
an RDB disk image creator, etc:

https://github.com/cnvogelg/amitools

If I get it right it's somehow written in Python, which sounds scary, but
I've seen it in action and it looked like it's working. Never tried it
myself tho', but I tried other software from the same repo, and they
worked nicely.

Charlie

Re: m68k chat 21st Aug 2020 - "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on the Amiga"

[John Paul Adrian Glaubitz]

Hi!

> On Aug 12, 2020, at 10:18 AM, Carsten Strotmann <cas@strotmann.de> wrote:
> 
> the upcoming m68k developers evening chat is on
> 
> Friday 21st August 2020, 20:00 H CEST (6:00 PM UTC)
> 
> Location <https://meet.m68k.info/m68k> (will be online 30 minutes before
> the chat starts)
> 
> We will have a short demo: "the Amitari - EmuTOS and Atari Software on
> the Amiga" and discuss the experiences of running Atari software on the
> Amiga (might the reverse be possible too --> running AmigaOS command
> line binaries on TOS?)
> 
> The schedule for the m68k chats can be found at <https://m68k.info>

I will be a bit late today as I‘m not home yet.

Adrian