[PATCH v2 2/2] [PATCH v2] man/man2/kill.2: Add Amit Pinhas as a contributer

[PATCH v2 2/2] [PATCH v2] man/man2/kill.2: Add Amit Pinhas as a contributer

[Amit Pinhas]

---
 man/man2/kill.2 | 1 +
 1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)

diff --git a/man/man2/kill.2 b/man/man2/kill.2
index 8bb75545b..3022ae02a 100644
--- a/man/man2/kill.2
+++ b/man/man2/kill.2
@@ -20,6 +20,7 @@
 .\"     Added note on CAP_KILL
 .\" Modified 2004-06-24 by aeb
 .\" Modified, 2004-11-30, after idea from emmanuel.colbus@ensimag.imag.fr
+.\" Modified 2025-02-12, after correction from <amitpinhass@gmail.com>
 .\"
 .TH kill 2 (date) "Linux man-pages (unreleased)"
 .SH NAME
-- 
2.43.0

Re: [PATCH v2 2/2] [PATCH v2] man/man2/kill.2: Add Amit Pinhas as a contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1142 bytes --]

Hi Amit,

On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 09:39:29PM +0200, Amit Pinhas wrote:
> ---
>  man/man2/kill.2 | 1 +
>  1 file changed, 1 insertion(+)
> 
> diff --git a/man/man2/kill.2 b/man/man2/kill.2
> index 8bb75545b..3022ae02a 100644
> --- a/man/man2/kill.2
> +++ b/man/man2/kill.2
> @@ -20,6 +20,7 @@
>  .\"     Added note on CAP_KILL
>  .\" Modified 2004-06-24 by aeb
>  .\" Modified, 2004-11-30, after idea from emmanuel.colbus@ensimag.imag.fr
> +.\" Modified 2025-02-12, after correction from <amitpinhass@gmail.com>

We don't update those anymore.  We now rely on the metadata in git(1).

Every now and then, I consider if I should just remove all of those
lines, to avoid confusing people.  If anyone is interested in the
history before git(1), one can certainly look at those lines in old
versions of the pages.  Anyone reading the mailing list opposes removing
those lines?  (I'll ask again before removing anything, with a proper
subject line.)


Have a lovely night!
Alex

>  .\"
>  .TH kill 2 (date) "Linux man-pages (unreleased)"
>  .SH NAME
> -- 
> 2.43.0
> 

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: [PATCH v2 2/2] [PATCH v2] man/man2/kill.2: Add Amit Pinhas as a contributer

[G. Branden Robinson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1342 bytes --]

Hi Alex,

At 2025-02-12T21:26:20+0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
[...]
> >  .\" Modified 2004-06-24 by aeb
> >  .\" Modified, 2004-11-30, after idea from emmanuel.colbus@ensimag.imag.fr
> > +.\" Modified 2025-02-12, after correction from <amitpinhass@gmail.com>
> 
> We don't update those anymore.  We now rely on the metadata in git(1).
> 
> Every now and then, I consider if I should just remove all of those
> lines, to avoid confusing people.  If anyone is interested in the
> history before git(1), one can certainly look at those lines in old
> versions of the pages.  Anyone reading the mailing list opposes
> removing those lines?  (I'll ask again before removing anything, with
> a proper subject line.)

If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something like:

.\" See the Git revision history at
.\"   $URL
.\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.

That way (1) anyone diffing old and new versions don't see what looks
like an unmotivated erasure of contributor credits; (2) people who
have contributed and been credited don't feel as much of a sting, since
they know records continue to be kept in a publicly available (and
replicated, distributed place) and (3) future contributors know that
they can expect to be treated equitably with past ones.

Regards,
Branden

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3016 bytes --]

Hi Branden,

[Subject reformed to the topic of in-source records of contribution]

On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> Hi Alex,
> 
> At 2025-02-12T21:26:20+0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> [...]
> > >  .\" Modified 2004-06-24 by aeb
> > >  .\" Modified, 2004-11-30, after idea from emmanuel.colbus@ensimag.imag.fr
> > > +.\" Modified 2025-02-12, after correction from <amitpinhass@gmail.com>
> > 
> > We don't update those anymore.  We now rely on the metadata in git(1).
> > 
> > Every now and then, I consider if I should just remove all of those
> > lines, to avoid confusing people.  If anyone is interested in the
> > history before git(1), one can certainly look at those lines in old
> > versions of the pages.  Anyone reading the mailing list opposes
> > removing those lines?  (I'll ask again before removing anything, with
> > a proper subject line.)

Okay, time has come to open this melon.  :)

> If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something like:
> 
> .\" See the Git revision history at
> .\"   $URL
> .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.

Good idea.

> That way (1) anyone diffing old and new versions don't see what looks
> like an unmotivated erasure of contributor credits; (2) people who
> have contributed and been credited don't feel as much of a sting, since
> they know records continue to be kept in a publicly available (and
> replicated, distributed place) and (3) future contributors know that
> they can expect to be treated equitably with past ones.

How about something like this?

	diff --git i/man/man2/mount.2 w/man/man2/mount.2
	index 178d59b52..f65c3947f 100644
	--- i/man/man2/mount.2
	+++ w/man/man2/mount.2
	@@ -4,18 +4,8 @@
	 .\"
	 .\" SPDX-License-Identifier: Linux-man-pages-copyleft
	 .\"
	-.\" Modified 1996-11-04 by Eric S. Raymond <esr@thyrsus.com>
	-.\" Modified 2001-10-13 by Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
	-.\"    Added note on historical behavior of MS_NOSUID
	-.\" Modified 2002-05-16 by Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
	-.\"    Extensive changes and additions
	-.\" Modified 2002-05-27 by aeb
	-.\" Modified 2002-06-11 by Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
	-.\"    Enhanced descriptions of MS_MOVE, MS_BIND, and MS_REMOUNT
	-.\" Modified 2004-06-17 by Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
	-.\" 2005-05-18, mtk, Added MNT_EXPIRE, plus a few other tidy-ups.
	-.\" 2008-10-06, mtk: move umount*() material into separate umount.2 page.
	-.\" 2008-10-06, mtk: Add discussion of namespaces.
	+.\" See git(1) commit man-pages-6.11^ (2025-02-13, "Remove in-source contribution records")
	+.\" for old records of changes to this file.
	 .\"
	 .TH mount 2 (date) "Linux man-pages (unreleased)"
	 .SH NAME

I would of course make sure to commit this right before the release, to
make sure I don't invalidate the reference.


Have a lovely night!
Alex

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3827 bytes --]

[CC -= Amit]

Hi Branden,

On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > At 2025-02-12T21:26:20+0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > [...]
> > > >  .\" Modified 2004-06-24 by aeb
> > > >  .\" Modified, 2004-11-30, after idea from emmanuel.colbus@ensimag.imag.fr
> > > > +.\" Modified 2025-02-12, after correction from <amitpinhass@gmail.com>
> > > 
> > > We don't update those anymore.  We now rely on the metadata in git(1).
> > > 
> > > Every now and then, I consider if I should just remove all of those
> > > lines, to avoid confusing people.  If anyone is interested in the
> > > history before git(1), one can certainly look at those lines in old
> > > versions of the pages.  Anyone reading the mailing list opposes
> > > removing those lines?  (I'll ask again before removing anything, with
> > > a proper subject line.)
> 
> Okay, time has come to open this melon.  :)
> 
> > If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something like:
> > 
> > .\" See the Git revision history at
> > .\"   $URL
> > .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
> 
> Good idea.

I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to each
page.  People interested in the history of a page will already have a
look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states of a
page, in which they'll find this information.

And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.

I have the commit already pushed to my git development branch:
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/src/alx/linux/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?h=contrib&id=c64b27120c90aad00f6e698bdf758f11196d97ac>


Have a lovely night!
Alex

> > That way (1) anyone diffing old and new versions don't see what looks
> > like an unmotivated erasure of contributor credits; (2) people who
> > have contributed and been credited don't feel as much of a sting, since
> > they know records continue to be kept in a publicly available (and
> > replicated, distributed place) and (3) future contributors know that
> > they can expect to be treated equitably with past ones.
> 
> How about something like this?
> 
> 	diff --git i/man/man2/mount.2 w/man/man2/mount.2
> 	index 178d59b52..f65c3947f 100644
> 	--- i/man/man2/mount.2
> 	+++ w/man/man2/mount.2
> 	@@ -4,18 +4,8 @@
> 	 .\"
> 	 .\" SPDX-License-Identifier: Linux-man-pages-copyleft
> 	 .\"
> 	-.\" Modified 1996-11-04 by Eric S. Raymond <esr@thyrsus.com>
> 	-.\" Modified 2001-10-13 by Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
> 	-.\"    Added note on historical behavior of MS_NOSUID
> 	-.\" Modified 2002-05-16 by Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
> 	-.\"    Extensive changes and additions
> 	-.\" Modified 2002-05-27 by aeb
> 	-.\" Modified 2002-06-11 by Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
> 	-.\"    Enhanced descriptions of MS_MOVE, MS_BIND, and MS_REMOUNT
> 	-.\" Modified 2004-06-17 by Michael Kerrisk <mtk.manpages@gmail.com>
> 	-.\" 2005-05-18, mtk, Added MNT_EXPIRE, plus a few other tidy-ups.
> 	-.\" 2008-10-06, mtk: move umount*() material into separate umount.2 page.
> 	-.\" 2008-10-06, mtk: Add discussion of namespaces.
> 	+.\" See git(1) commit man-pages-6.11^ (2025-02-13, "Remove in-source contribution records")
> 	+.\" for old records of changes to this file.
> 	 .\"
> 	 .TH mount 2 (date) "Linux man-pages (unreleased)"
> 	 .SH NAME
> 
> I would of course make sure to commit this right before the release, to
> make sure I don't invalidate the reference.
> 
> 
> Have a lovely night!
> Alex
> 
> -- 
> <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>



-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[G. Branden Robinson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1375 bytes --]

Hi Alex,

At 2025-04-08T01:05:02+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something
> > > like:
> > > 
> > > .\" See the Git revision history at
> > > .\"   $URL
> > > .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
> > 
> > Good idea.
> 
> I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to
> each page.  People interested in the history of a page will already
> have a look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states
> of a page, in which they'll find this information.
> 
> And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
> consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.

Acknowledged.  It's been a whole 7 weeks for so, so I don't clearly
remember my reasoning from February, but my suggestion may have been at
attempt to find a "conservative" alteration to file content or the
expressed meaning of the comments.

But, what's conservative in one dimension often is not in another, such
as "labor required".

I also agree that while Git is a complex suite of tools, "git log" is
not among its deeper magicks.  At least not when run without arguments.

Regards,
Branden

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Eugene Syromyatnikov]

On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20 AM Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Branden,
>
> [Subject reformed to the topic of in-source records of contribution]
>
> On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > Hi Alex,
> >
> > At 2025-02-12T21:26:20+0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > [...]
> > > >  .\" Modified 2004-06-24 by aeb
> > > >  .\" Modified, 2004-11-30, after idea from emmanuel.colbus@ensimag.imag.fr
> > > > +.\" Modified 2025-02-12, after correction from <amitpinhass@gmail.com>
> > >
> > > We don't update those anymore.  We now rely on the metadata in git(1).
> > >
> > > Every now and then, I consider if I should just remove all of those
> > > lines, to avoid confusing people.  If anyone is interested in the
> > > history before git(1), one can certainly look at those lines in old
> > > versions of the pages.  Anyone reading the mailing list opposes
> > > removing those lines?  (I'll ask again before removing anything, with
> > > a proper subject line.)
>
> Okay, time has come to open this melon.  :)

In strace, FWIW, we have the following:
 * the copyright notice looks like "Copyright (c) <year>-<year> The
strace developers.";
 * we have a script [1] to consistently add/update those before the release;
 * strace(1) refers to CREDITS for the list of contributors, which is
generated for the dist tarball by [2];
 * dist tarball also has ChangeLog, that is generated from git history by [3].

That way, there's minimal attribution noise in the files, and some
minimum level of attribution is done for the distribution tarball.

[1] https://gitlab.com/strace/strace/-/blob/master/maint/update_copyright_years.sh
[2] https://gitlab.com/strace/strace/-/blob/master/Makefile.am#L112
[3] https://gitlab.com/strace/strace/-/blob/master/Makefile.am#L101

-- 
Eugene Syromyatnikov
mailto:evgsyr@gmail.com
xmpp:esyr@jabber.{ru|org}

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Carlos O'Donell]

On 4/8/25 8:42 AM, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> Hi Alex,
> 
> At 2025-04-08T01:05:02+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
>>>> If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something
>>>> like:
>>>>
>>>> .\" See the Git revision history at
>>>> .\"   $URL
>>>> .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
>>>
>>> Good idea.
>>
>> I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to
>> each page.  People interested in the history of a page will already
>> have a look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states
>> of a page, in which they'll find this information.
>>
>> And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
>> consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.
> 
> Acknowledged.  It's been a whole 7 weeks for so, so I don't clearly
> remember my reasoning from February, but my suggestion may have been at
> attempt to find a "conservative" alteration to file content or the
> expressed meaning of the comments.
> 
> But, what's conservative in one dimension often is not in another, such
> as "labor required".
> 
> I also agree that while Git is a complex suite of tools, "git log" is
> not among its deeper magicks.  At least not when run without arguments.

We did something similar in glibc and created a CONTRIBUTED-BY file at the
top-level and moved all contribution lines out of the respective
files into the top-level file.

e.g.
~~~
The glibc project stopped adding "Contributed by" lines to source files in 2012
in favour of acknowledging contributors in the glibc manual and through the git
log.  The record of existing "Contributed by" lines have now been moved to this
file to acknowledge contributions by these developers to glibc.

argp/argp-test.c:
     Written by Miles Bader <miles@gnu.ai.mit.edu>.

argp/tst-argp1.c:
     Contributed by Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>, 2002.
...
~~~
The top-level CONTRIBUTED-BY has ~3,000 Contributed/Written by lines.

Sme of the authors predated the use of git and so it was simpler to keep the
lines somewhere as part of the transition away from "Contributed by"-style
lines.

-- 
Cheers,
Carlos.

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1749 bytes --]

Hi Eugene,

On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 08:00:19PM +0200, Eugene Syromyatnikov wrote:
> > > > Every now and then, I consider if I should just remove all of those
> > > > lines, to avoid confusing people.  If anyone is interested in the
> > > > history before git(1), one can certainly look at those lines in old
> > > > versions of the pages.  Anyone reading the mailing list opposes
> > > > removing those lines?  (I'll ask again before removing anything, with
> > > > a proper subject line.)
> >
> > Okay, time has come to open this melon.  :)
> 
> In strace, FWIW, we have the following:
>  * the copyright notice looks like "Copyright (c) <year>-<year> The
> strace developers.";

Hmmm, interesting.  And actually, it's more accurate than the usual
copyright lines.

I guess we could change the copyright lines to something like that, and
then have a CREDITS list of contributors.

Thanks for the ideas!


Have a lovely night!
Alex

>  * we have a script [1] to consistently add/update those before the release;
>  * strace(1) refers to CREDITS for the list of contributors, which is
> generated for the dist tarball by [2];
>  * dist tarball also has ChangeLog, that is generated from git history by [3].
> 
> That way, there's minimal attribution noise in the files, and some
> minimum level of attribution is done for the distribution tarball.
> 
> [1] https://gitlab.com/strace/strace/-/blob/master/maint/update_copyright_years.sh
> [2] https://gitlab.com/strace/strace/-/blob/master/Makefile.am#L112
> [3] https://gitlab.com/strace/strace/-/blob/master/Makefile.am#L101
> 
> -- 
> Eugene Syromyatnikov
> mailto:evgsyr@gmail.com
> xmpp:esyr@jabber.{ru|org}

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3125 bytes --]

Hi Carlos,

On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 04:18:35PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> On 4/8/25 8:42 AM, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > Hi Alex,
> > 
> > At 2025-04-08T01:05:02+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > > If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something
> > > > > like:
> > > > > 
> > > > > .\" See the Git revision history at
> > > > > .\"   $URL
> > > > > .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
> > > > 
> > > > Good idea.
> > > 
> > > I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to
> > > each page.  People interested in the history of a page will already
> > > have a look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states
> > > of a page, in which they'll find this information.
> > > 
> > > And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
> > > consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.
> > 
> > Acknowledged.  It's been a whole 7 weeks for so, so I don't clearly
> > remember my reasoning from February, but my suggestion may have been at
> > attempt to find a "conservative" alteration to file content or the
> > expressed meaning of the comments.
> > 
> > But, what's conservative in one dimension often is not in another, such
> > as "labor required".
> > 
> > I also agree that while Git is a complex suite of tools, "git log" is
> > not among its deeper magicks.  At least not when run without arguments.
> 
> We did something similar in glibc and created a CONTRIBUTED-BY file at the
> top-level and moved all contribution lines out of the respective
> files into the top-level file.

Yep, a CREDITS file would be interesting.  I wouldn't keep info about
which specific files were written by each contributor.  That seems
something more appripriate for git-log(1).  The pre-git contributions
will be visible in old versions of the pages (i.e., if one sees
Jane Random Developer in CREDITS and wonders which pages she contributed
to, they can `git log -S 'Jane Random Developer'` and similar commands
to find out.

Thanks!


Have a lovely night!
Alex

> 
> e.g.
> ~~~
> The glibc project stopped adding "Contributed by" lines to source files in 2012
> in favour of acknowledging contributors in the glibc manual and through the git
> log.  The record of existing "Contributed by" lines have now been moved to this
> file to acknowledge contributions by these developers to glibc.
> 
> argp/argp-test.c:
>     Written by Miles Bader <miles@gnu.ai.mit.edu>.
> 
> argp/tst-argp1.c:
>     Contributed by Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>, 2002.
> ...
> ~~~
> The top-level CONTRIBUTED-BY has ~3,000 Contributed/Written by lines.
> 
> Sme of the authors predated the use of git and so it was simpler to keep the
> lines somewhere as part of the transition away from "Contributed by"-style
> lines.
> 
> -- 
> Cheers,
> Carlos.
> 
> 

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Carlos O'Donell]

On 4/8/25 5:25 PM, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Hi Eugene,
> 
> On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 08:00:19PM +0200, Eugene Syromyatnikov wrote:
>>>>> Every now and then, I consider if I should just remove all of those
>>>>> lines, to avoid confusing people.  If anyone is interested in the
>>>>> history before git(1), one can certainly look at those lines in old
>>>>> versions of the pages.  Anyone reading the mailing list opposes
>>>>> removing those lines?  (I'll ask again before removing anything, with
>>>>> a proper subject line.)
>>>
>>> Okay, time has come to open this melon.  :)
>>
>> In strace, FWIW, we have the following:
>>   * the copyright notice looks like "Copyright (c) <year>-<year> The
>> strace developers.";
> 
> Hmmm, interesting.  And actually, it's more accurate than the usual
> copyright lines.

The value of the line "Copyright (c) The Foo Developers" is to indicate
that the works are copyrighted, and it avoids anyone who infringes from
arguing they "didn't know." It is in itself not a copyright statement.

What value is there in maintaining the year?

Note:
Copyright Notices in Open Source Software Projects (Steve Winslow)
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/blog/copyright-notices-in-open-source-software-projects

-- 
Cheers,
Carlos.

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1089 bytes --]

Hi Carlos,

On Wed, Apr 09, 2025 at 05:15:21PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > > In strace, FWIW, we have the following:
> > >   * the copyright notice looks like "Copyright (c) <year>-<year> The
> > > strace developers.";
> > 
> > Hmmm, interesting.  And actually, it's more accurate than the usual
> > copyright lines.
> 
> The value of the line "Copyright (c) The Foo Developers" is to indicate
> that the works are copyrighted, and it avoids anyone who infringes from
> arguing they "didn't know." It is in itself not a copyright statement.

Hmmm.

> What value is there in maintaining the year?

A copyright notice requires the year AFAIK, although if this is not a
formal copyright statement, I guess we can remove it.  That means
significantly less maintenance work, which is good.

> Note:
> Copyright Notices in Open Source Software Projects (Steve Winslow)
> https://www.linuxfoundation.org/blog/blog/copyright-notices-in-open-source-software-projects

Thanks for the link!


Have a lovely night!
Alex

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2858 bytes --]

Hi all,

I've moved all contribution credits to a new CREDITS file, and changed
all copyright notices to claim

	Copyright, The contributors to the Linux man-pages project

(I've kept only a few copyright notices, which are not from contributors
 of this project, but from projects from which we've imported pages.  I
 may have made some mistakes while doing this, but they would be
 unintentional.  If anyone spots a mistake, please let me know and I'll
 fix it.)

$ grep -rh '^\.\\".*Copyright' man/ \
| sort \
| uniq -c \
| sort
      1 .\" Copyright (C) All BPF authors and contributors from 2014 to present.
      1 .\" Copyright 1980-1991, The Regents of the University of California.
      1 .\" Copyright 1980-1993, The Regents of the University of California.
      1 .\" Copyright 1983-1987, The Regents of the University of California.
      1 .\" Copyright 1983-1991, Regents of the University of California.
      1 .\" Copyright 1986, The Regents of the University of California.
      1 .\" Copyright 1987-1993, The Regents of the University of California.
      1 .\" Copyright 1989-1994, The Regents of the University of California.
      1 .\" Copyright 1990-1991, Regents of the University of California.
      1 .\" Copyright 1991-1992, Free Software Foundation
      1 .\" Copyright 1992-1994, The Regents of the University of California.
      1 .\" Copyright 1996, Joerg Wunsch
      1 .\" Copyright 1998, The Internet Society.
      1 .\" Copyright, OpenBSD Group
      2 .\" Copyright 1983, The Regents of the University of California.
      2 .\" Copyright 1983-1993, The Regents of the University of California.
      2 .\" Copyright 1989-1993, The Regents of the University of California.
      2 .\" Copyright 1991, The Regents of the University of California.
      2 .\" Copyright, Free Software Foundation
      4 .\" Copyright 1996, Free Software Foundation, Inc.
      5 .\" Copyright 1980-1991, Regents of the University of California.
      5 .\" Copyright 1990-1993, The Regents of the University of California.
      6 .\" Copyright 2003, Free Software Foundation, Inc.
      8 .\" Copyright 1993, The Regents of the University of California.
     10 .\" Copyright 1990-1991, The Regents of the University of California.
     13 .\" Copyright 1983-1991, The Regents of the University of California.
   1359 .\" Copyright, The contributors to the Linux man-pages project

These changes will be for a few days in my personal branch (to allow
amending any mistakes), and then I'll push to <git.kernel.org>.
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/src/alx/linux/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?h=contrib&id=e007a866ef60913bedf710caf8512cd401407062>

BTW, I plan to release a new version in a week or so.


Have a lovely night!
Alex

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Eugene Syromyatnikov]

On Wed, Apr 9, 2025 at 11:15 PM Carlos O'Donell <carlos@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> On 4/8/25 5:25 PM, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > Hi Eugene,
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 08:00:19PM +0200, Eugene Syromyatnikov wrote:
[...]
> >> In strace, FWIW, we have the following:
> >>   * the copyright notice looks like "Copyright (c) <year>-<year> The
> >> strace developers.";
> >
> > Hmmm, interesting.  And actually, it's more accurate than the usual
> > copyright lines.
>
> The value of the line "Copyright (c) The Foo Developers" is to indicate
> that the works are copyrighted, and it avoids anyone who infringes from
> arguing they "didn't know." It is in itself not a copyright statement.
>
> What value is there in maintaining the year?

There isn't much, but since we have automation in place that ensures
that the files that are touched since the last release have their
copyright notices, it has been implemented in a way to provide the
years as well, to have the same format as the existing few historic
copyright notices (that we tend to keep, as a tradition, and not for
some technical/legal reasons).

-- 
Eugene Syromyatnikov
mailto:evgsyr@gmail.com
xmpp:esyr@jabber.{ru|org}

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4316 bytes --]

Hi all,

I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
(those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
found here:
<https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>

Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
<https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
in what affects you?

I've generated the BCC with

	$ git show 9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657 -- man \
	| grep '^-[^-]' \
	| grep @ \
	| grep -o '[^     ]*@[^ ]*' \
	| sed 's/,//g' \
	| sed 's/\.$//' \
	| sed 's/.*(//' \
	| sed 's/<//' \
	| sed 's/>//' \
	| sed 's/\.)//' \
	| sed 's/)//' \
	| sort \
	| uniq \
	| sed 's/^/Bcc: /';


Have a lovely day!
Alex

On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 11:28:29PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Hi Carlos,
> 
> On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 04:18:35PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > On 4/8/25 8:42 AM, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > Hi Alex,
> > > 
> > > At 2025-04-08T01:05:02+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > > > If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something
> > > > > > like:
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > .\" See the Git revision history at
> > > > > > .\"   $URL
> > > > > > .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Good idea.
> > > > 
> > > > I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to
> > > > each page.  People interested in the history of a page will already
> > > > have a look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states
> > > > of a page, in which they'll find this information.
> > > > 
> > > > And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
> > > > consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.
> > > 
> > > Acknowledged.  It's been a whole 7 weeks for so, so I don't clearly
> > > remember my reasoning from February, but my suggestion may have been at
> > > attempt to find a "conservative" alteration to file content or the
> > > expressed meaning of the comments.
> > > 
> > > But, what's conservative in one dimension often is not in another, such
> > > as "labor required".
> > > 
> > > I also agree that while Git is a complex suite of tools, "git log" is
> > > not among its deeper magicks.  At least not when run without arguments.
> > 
> > We did something similar in glibc and created a CONTRIBUTED-BY file at the
> > top-level and moved all contribution lines out of the respective
> > files into the top-level file.
> 
> Yep, a CREDITS file would be interesting.  I wouldn't keep info about
> which specific files were written by each contributor.  That seems
> something more appripriate for git-log(1).  The pre-git contributions
> will be visible in old versions of the pages (i.e., if one sees
> Jane Random Developer in CREDITS and wonders which pages she contributed
> to, they can `git log -S 'Jane Random Developer'` and similar commands
> to find out.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> Have a lovely night!
> Alex
> 
> > 
> > e.g.
> > ~~~
> > The glibc project stopped adding "Contributed by" lines to source files in 2012
> > in favour of acknowledging contributors in the glibc manual and through the git
> > log.  The record of existing "Contributed by" lines have now been moved to this
> > file to acknowledge contributions by these developers to glibc.
> > 
> > argp/argp-test.c:
> >     Written by Miles Bader <miles@gnu.ai.mit.edu>.
> > 
> > argp/tst-argp1.c:
> >     Contributed by Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>, 2002.
> > ...
> > ~~~
> > The top-level CONTRIBUTED-BY has ~3,000 Contributed/Written by lines.
> > 
> > Sme of the authors predated the use of git and so it was simpler to keep the
> > lines somewhere as part of the transition away from "Contributed by"-style
> > lines.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Cheers,
> > Carlos.
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>



-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Stephen Kitt]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 692 bytes --]

Hi Alex,

On Fri, 9 May 2025 14:54:31 +0200, Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org> wrote:
> I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> found here:
> <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> 
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?

That’s fine by me, I approve.

Regards,

Stephen

[-- Attachment #2: OpenPGP digital signature --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Mathieu Desnoyers]

On 2025-05-09 08:54, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> found here:
> <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> 
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?

I was not sure if I should reply to all (including the mailing list).
Please clarify for others.

This change is OK as far as I am concerned. I'm always happy to
help lessen the maintenance burden. Eliminating redundant,
copyright information appears to be a good way to it.

The git history holds detailed information about the
line-by-line modifications to each file anyway.

Thanks,

Mathieu

> 
> I've generated the BCC with
> 
> 	$ git show 9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657 -- man \
> 	| grep '^-[^-]' \
> 	| grep @ \
> 	| grep -o '[^     ]*@[^ ]*' \
> 	| sed 's/,//g' \
> 	| sed 's/\.$//' \
> 	| sed 's/.*(//' \
> 	| sed 's/<//' \
> 	| sed 's/>//' \
> 	| sed 's/\.)//' \
> 	| sed 's/)//' \
> 	| sort \
> 	| uniq \
> 	| sed 's/^/Bcc: /';
> 
> 
> Have a lovely day!
> Alex
> 
> On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 11:28:29PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
>> Hi Carlos,
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 04:18:35PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
>>> On 4/8/25 8:42 AM, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
>>>> Hi Alex,
>>>>
>>>> At 2025-04-08T01:05:02+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
>>>>>>> If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something
>>>>>>> like:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> .\" See the Git revision history at
>>>>>>> .\"   $URL
>>>>>>> .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Good idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to
>>>>> each page.  People interested in the history of a page will already
>>>>> have a look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states
>>>>> of a page, in which they'll find this information.
>>>>>
>>>>> And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
>>>>> consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.
>>>>
>>>> Acknowledged.  It's been a whole 7 weeks for so, so I don't clearly
>>>> remember my reasoning from February, but my suggestion may have been at
>>>> attempt to find a "conservative" alteration to file content or the
>>>> expressed meaning of the comments.
>>>>
>>>> But, what's conservative in one dimension often is not in another, such
>>>> as "labor required".
>>>>
>>>> I also agree that while Git is a complex suite of tools, "git log" is
>>>> not among its deeper magicks.  At least not when run without arguments.
>>>
>>> We did something similar in glibc and created a CONTRIBUTED-BY file at the
>>> top-level and moved all contribution lines out of the respective
>>> files into the top-level file.
>>
>> Yep, a CREDITS file would be interesting.  I wouldn't keep info about
>> which specific files were written by each contributor.  That seems
>> something more appripriate for git-log(1).  The pre-git contributions
>> will be visible in old versions of the pages (i.e., if one sees
>> Jane Random Developer in CREDITS and wonders which pages she contributed
>> to, they can `git log -S 'Jane Random Developer'` and similar commands
>> to find out.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>> Have a lovely night!
>> Alex
>>
>>>
>>> e.g.
>>> ~~~
>>> The glibc project stopped adding "Contributed by" lines to source files in 2012
>>> in favour of acknowledging contributors in the glibc manual and through the git
>>> log.  The record of existing "Contributed by" lines have now been moved to this
>>> file to acknowledge contributions by these developers to glibc.
>>>
>>> argp/argp-test.c:
>>>      Written by Miles Bader <miles@gnu.ai.mit.edu>.
>>>
>>> argp/tst-argp1.c:
>>>      Contributed by Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>, 2002.
>>> ...
>>> ~~~
>>> The top-level CONTRIBUTED-BY has ~3,000 Contributed/Written by lines.
>>>
>>> Sme of the authors predated the use of git and so it was simpler to keep the
>>> lines somewhere as part of the transition away from "Contributed by"-style
>>> lines.
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Carlos.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> -- 
>> <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
> 
> 
> 


-- 
Mathieu Desnoyers
EfficiOS Inc.
https://www.efficios.com

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Carlos O'Donell]

On 5/9/25 9:05 AM, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> On 2025-05-09 08:54, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
>> (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
>> found here:
>> <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
>>
>> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
>> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
>> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
>> in what affects you?
> 
> I was not sure if I should reply to all (including the mailing list).
> Please clarify for others.
> 
> This change is OK as far as I am concerned. I'm always happy to
> help lessen the maintenance burden. Eliminating redundant,
> copyright information appears to be a good way to it.
> 
> The git history holds detailed information about the
> line-by-line modifications to each file anyway.

100% agree with Mathieu here.

This is OK for me and something we already did in glibc to lessen the
maintenance burden.

-- 
Cheers,
Carlos.

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1808 bytes --]

Hi Mathieu,

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 09:14:56AM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> On 5/9/25 9:05 AM, Mathieu Desnoyers wrote:
> > On 2025-05-09 08:54, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> > > (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> > > found here:
> > > <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> > > 
> > > Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> > > notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> > > <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> > > in what affects you?
> > 
> > I was not sure if I should reply to all (including the mailing list).
> > Please clarify for others.

One person has replied in private, but all others in public.  I prefer
if people reply in public, because then we have the list archives as a
record of the statement, which may have legal consequences.

I only used BCC, because having 100+ recipients is problematic.
Please reply on-list (but if someone prefers to reply off-list, that's
okay too).

> > 
> > This change is OK as far as I am concerned. I'm always happy to
> > help lessen the maintenance burden. Eliminating redundant,
> > copyright information appears to be a good way to it.
> > 
> > The git history holds detailed information about the
> > line-by-line modifications to each file anyway.
> 
> 100% agree with Mathieu here.
> 
> This is OK for me and something we already did in glibc to lessen the
> maintenance burden.

+1.

Thank you all!


Have a lovely day!
Alex

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Josef Bacik]

On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 8:55 AM Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> found here:
> <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
>
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?

My only concern is that we aren't lawyers (well at least I'm not), so
as long as we're following LF guidelines I'm fine with this.  Thanks,

Josef

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[наб]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 336 bytes --]

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:54:31PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?
Yes

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Michael Haardt]

Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org> wrote:
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?

Approved. Amazing how long ago that was.

Michael

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Dave Martin]

Hi,

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:54:31PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> found here:
> <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> 
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?


Should the one-line replacement statement in each file refer back to
the CREDITS file?

Also, nothing seems to say that anyone listed in CREDITS actually
contributed copyrightable material to the project (as opposed to, say,
review effort, moral support or free pizza).

Renaming the CREDITS file to AUTHORS and/or clarifying this in a brief
top-level LICENSE / COPYING file might make the meaning clearer?


Either way, ack for the changes affecting me.

[...]

Cheers
---Dave

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Heinrich Schuchardt]

Am 9. Mai 2025 14:54:31 MESZ schrieb Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org>:
>Hi all,
>
>I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
>(those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
>found here:
><https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
>
>Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
>notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
><https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
>in what affects you?

Fine for me.

Best regards 

Heinrich 


>
>I've generated the BCC with
>
>	$ git show 9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657 -- man \
>	| grep '^-[^-]' \
>	| grep @ \
>	| grep -o '[^     ]*@[^ ]*' \
>	| sed 's/,//g' \
>	| sed 's/\.$//' \
>	| sed 's/.*(//' \
>	| sed 's/<//' \
>	| sed 's/>//' \
>	| sed 's/\.)//' \
>	| sed 's/)//' \
>	| sort \
>	| uniq \
>	| sed 's/^/Bcc: /';
>
>
>Have a lovely day!
>Alex
>
>On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 11:28:29PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
>> Hi Carlos,
>> 
>> On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 04:18:35PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
>> > On 4/8/25 8:42 AM, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
>> > > Hi Alex,
>> > > 
>> > > At 2025-04-08T01:05:02+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
>> > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
>> > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
>> > > > > > If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something
>> > > > > > like:
>> > > > > > 
>> > > > > > .\" See the Git revision history at
>> > > > > > .\"   $URL
>> > > > > > .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
>> > > > > 
>> > > > > Good idea.
>> > > > 
>> > > > I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to
>> > > > each page.  People interested in the history of a page will already
>> > > > have a look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states
>> > > > of a page, in which they'll find this information.
>> > > > 
>> > > > And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
>> > > > consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.
>> > > 
>> > > Acknowledged.  It's been a whole 7 weeks for so, so I don't clearly
>> > > remember my reasoning from February, but my suggestion may have been at
>> > > attempt to find a "conservative" alteration to file content or the
>> > > expressed meaning of the comments.
>> > > 
>> > > But, what's conservative in one dimension often is not in another, such
>> > > as "labor required".
>> > > 
>> > > I also agree that while Git is a complex suite of tools, "git log" is
>> > > not among its deeper magicks.  At least not when run without arguments.
>> > 
>> > We did something similar in glibc and created a CONTRIBUTED-BY file at the
>> > top-level and moved all contribution lines out of the respective
>> > files into the top-level file.
>> 
>> Yep, a CREDITS file would be interesting.  I wouldn't keep info about
>> which specific files were written by each contributor.  That seems
>> something more appripriate for git-log(1).  The pre-git contributions
>> will be visible in old versions of the pages (i.e., if one sees
>> Jane Random Developer in CREDITS and wonders which pages she contributed
>> to, they can `git log -S 'Jane Random Developer'` and similar commands
>> to find out.
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> 
>> Have a lovely night!
>> Alex
>> 
>> > 
>> > e.g.
>> > ~~~
>> > The glibc project stopped adding "Contributed by" lines to source files in 2012
>> > in favour of acknowledging contributors in the glibc manual and through the git
>> > log.  The record of existing "Contributed by" lines have now been moved to this
>> > file to acknowledge contributions by these developers to glibc.
>> > 
>> > argp/argp-test.c:
>> >     Written by Miles Bader <miles@gnu.ai.mit.edu>.
>> > 
>> > argp/tst-argp1.c:
>> >     Contributed by Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>, 2002.
>> > ...
>> > ~~~
>> > The top-level CONTRIBUTED-BY has ~3,000 Contributed/Written by lines.
>> > 
>> > Sme of the authors predated the use of git and so it was simpler to keep the
>> > lines somewhere as part of the transition away from "Contributed by"-style
>> > lines.
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > Cheers,
>> > Carlos.
>> > 
>> > 
>> 
>> -- 
>> <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
>
>
>

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2374 bytes --]

Hi Dave,

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 03:14:57PM +0100, Dave Martin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:54:31PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> > (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> > found here:
> > <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> > 
> > Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> > notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> > <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> > in what affects you?
> 
> 
> Should the one-line replacement statement in each file refer back to
> the CREDITS file?

I prefer not, because then someone can copy the files to a different
repository, without needing to modify the notices (they might take the
CREDITS file as CREDITS_Linux-man-pages).

> Also, nothing seems to say that anyone listed in CREDITS actually
> contributed copyrightable material to the project (as opposed to, say,
> review effort, moral support or free pizza).

I initially planned to include reviewers, etc. into CREDITS.  While
doing that, I realized that wasn't easy, because the file would be huge,
and would need to be updated too frequently; plus git(1) does a better
job of documenting that with the Reviewed-by, Cc, and other tags.

> Renaming the CREDITS file to AUTHORS and/or clarifying this in a brief
> top-level LICENSE / COPYING file might make the meaning clearer?

Yes, now that I discarded the idea of crediting *all* contributors, I
agree this file should be renamed to AUTHORS.  Regarding a file solely
to clarify that the AUTHORS file holds the copyright holders of the
project, I guess by calling it AUTHORS it would already be obvious.  I'm
hesitant to add another file for explaining that because the more
uppercase files there are in the root of the repo, the harder it is to
understand their relationship.  However, I can add something in the
README, where I already document what each file is.

> Either way, ack for the changes affecting me.

Thanks!


Have a lovely day!
Alex

> 
> [...]
> 
> Cheers
> ---Dave
> 

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[G. Branden Robinson]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3645 bytes --]

[CCing groff list because I bring up some project management details]

Hi Dave & Alex,

At 2025-05-09T15:14:57+0100, Dave Martin wrote:
> Should the one-line replacement statement in each file refer back to
> the CREDITS file?
> 
> Also, nothing seems to say that anyone listed in CREDITS actually
> contributed copyrightable material to the project (as opposed to, say,
> review effort, moral support or free pizza).
> 
> Renaming the CREDITS file to AUTHORS and/or clarifying this in a brief
> top-level LICENSE / COPYING file might make the meaning clearer?

At 2025-05-09T16:39:05+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> I prefer not, because then someone can copy the files to a different
> repository, without needing to modify the notices (they might take the
> CREDITS file as CREDITS_Linux-man-pages).
> 
> > Also, nothing seems to say that anyone listed in CREDITS actually
> > contributed copyrightable material to the project (as opposed to, say,
> > review effort, moral support or free pizza).
> 
> I initially planned to include reviewers, etc. into CREDITS.  While
> doing that, I realized that wasn't easy, because the file would be
> huge, and would need to be updated too frequently; plus git(1) does a
> better job of documenting that with the Reviewed-by, Cc, and other
> tags.
>
> > Renaming the CREDITS file to AUTHORS and/or clarifying this in a
> > brief top-level LICENSE / COPYING file might make the meaning
> > clearer?
> 
> Yes, now that I discarded the idea of crediting *all* contributors, I
> agree this file should be renamed to AUTHORS.  Regarding a file solely
> to clarify that the AUTHORS file holds the copyright holders of the
> project, I guess by calling it AUTHORS it would already be obvious.
> I'm hesitant to add another file for explaining that because the more
> uppercase files there are in the root of the repo, the harder it is to
> understand their relationship.  However, I can add something in the
> README, where I already document what each file is.

Yes, this is consistent with GNU approach--as I understand it--of having
an "AUTHORS" file for copyright holders and a "THANKS" file for
acknowledgement of anyone who isn't a copyright holder.

Before anyone asks, groff doesn't use that approach, I think because it
is so old (starting 1989) and predates some GNU common practices.

On my get-around-to-it list is to determine who's actually signed
copyright assignment paperwork to the FSF for their groff contributions,
and who has not.  Anyone who had made a significant enough contribution
that copyright assignment would be worth the trouble would be listed in
AUTHORS whether they'd executed the assignment paperwork or not.

Also, since the contrary is a common misconception, the FSF does not
_require_ copyright assignment.

'GNU packages need not be FSF-copyrighted; this is up to the author(s),
generally at the time the package is dubbed GNU. When copyright is
assigned to the FSF, the FSF has authority to act to stop GPL violations
about the package (otherwise, legal actions are up to the author(s)). It
also allows us to grant additional permissions on a package, such as an
exception, if the need should arise. Additionally, holding the copyright
allows us to upgrade the license of a package even if it had been
initially released under "GPLv2 only" (instead of the "or later"
licensing option as recommended by the FSF). The rest of this section is
about the case when a package is FSF-copyrighted.'

https://www.gnu.org/prep/maintain/html_node/Copyright-Papers.html#Copyright-Papers

Regards,
Branden

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Tycho Andersen]

Hi Alex,

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:54:31PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> found here:
> <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> 
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?

(thanks for clarifying about posting on-list.)

Yes, I approve. (Though I have changed to using tycho@tycho.pizza as
my primary e-mail address, it would be handy if you could make that
correction during this process as well, but not required.)

Cheers,

Tycho

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Dave Martin]

Hi,

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 04:39:05PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Hi Dave,
> 
> On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 03:14:57PM +0100, Dave Martin wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:54:31PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> > > (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> > > found here:
> > > <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> > > 
> > > Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> > > notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> > > <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> > > in what affects you?
> > 
> > 
> > Should the one-line replacement statement in each file refer back to
> > the CREDITS file?
> 
> I prefer not, because then someone can copy the files to a different
> repository, without needing to modify the notices (they might take the
> CREDITS file as CREDITS_Linux-man-pages).

Fair enough, though would it make sense for the boilerplate line to at
least become

	# Copyright, The authors of the Linux man-pages project

...?

This remains meaningful out of context, but when shipped with the
original tree this wording macthes up with the naming of the AUTHORS
file (assuming that's what the file is called).


> > Also, nothing seems to say that anyone listed in CREDITS actually
> > contributed copyrightable material to the project (as opposed to, say,
> > review effort, moral support or free pizza).
> 
> I initially planned to include reviewers, etc. into CREDITS.  While
> doing that, I realized that wasn't easy, because the file would be huge,
> and would need to be updated too frequently; plus git(1) does a better
> job of documenting that with the Reviewed-by, Cc, and other tags.

Fair enough.  A line has to be drawn somewhere.


> > Renaming the CREDITS file to AUTHORS and/or clarifying this in a brief
> > top-level LICENSE / COPYING file might make the meaning clearer?
> 
> Yes, now that I discarded the idea of crediting *all* contributors, I
> agree this file should be renamed to AUTHORS.  Regarding a file solely
> to clarify that the AUTHORS file holds the copyright holders of the
> project, I guess by calling it AUTHORS it would already be obvious.  I'm
> hesitant to add another file for explaining that because the more
> uppercase files there are in the root of the repo, the harder it is to
> understand their relationship.  However, I can add something in the
> README, where I already document what each file is.

Ack, it's probably fairly obvious what a file called "AUTHORS" means.

Just a suggestion, would something like this work in README:

+   AUTHORS
+       List of individuals and organizations that have contributed
+       content to the project.
+

This will still be a true description regardless of whether the list
is complete or if non page content contributors are included.  (There
are probably plenty of borderline cases as to whether something counts
as a page content contribution or not.)

Cheers
---Dave

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Christoph Lameter (Ampere)]

There is a pending patch to standardize all my email addresses in the
kernel. This patch may conflict with the one in Andrew's tree.

The Email address going forward should be

Christoph Lameter <cl@gentwo.org>



On Fri, 9 May 2025, Alejandro Colomar wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> found here:
> <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
>
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?
>
> I've generated the BCC with
>
> 	$ git show 9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657 -- man \
> 	| grep '^-[^-]' \
> 	| grep @ \
> 	| grep -o '[^     ]*@[^ ]*' \
> 	| sed 's/,//g' \
> 	| sed 's/\.$//' \
> 	| sed 's/.*(//' \
> 	| sed 's/<//' \
> 	| sed 's/>//' \
> 	| sed 's/\.)//' \
> 	| sed 's/)//' \
> 	| sort \
> 	| uniq \
> 	| sed 's/^/Bcc: /';
>
>
> Have a lovely day!
> Alex
>
> On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 11:28:29PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 04:18:35PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > > On 4/8/25 8:42 AM, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > Hi Alex,
> > > >
> > > > At 2025-04-08T01:05:02+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > > > > If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something
> > > > > > > like:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > .\" See the Git revision history at
> > > > > > > .\"   $URL
> > > > > > > .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to
> > > > > each page.  People interested in the history of a page will already
> > > > > have a look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states
> > > > > of a page, in which they'll find this information.
> > > > >
> > > > > And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
> > > > > consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.
> > > >
> > > > Acknowledged.  It's been a whole 7 weeks for so, so I don't clearly
> > > > remember my reasoning from February, but my suggestion may have been at
> > > > attempt to find a "conservative" alteration to file content or the
> > > > expressed meaning of the comments.
> > > >
> > > > But, what's conservative in one dimension often is not in another, such
> > > > as "labor required".
> > > >
> > > > I also agree that while Git is a complex suite of tools, "git log" is
> > > > not among its deeper magicks.  At least not when run without arguments.
> > >
> > > We did something similar in glibc and created a CONTRIBUTED-BY file at the
> > > top-level and moved all contribution lines out of the respective
> > > files into the top-level file.
> >
> > Yep, a CREDITS file would be interesting.  I wouldn't keep info about
> > which specific files were written by each contributor.  That seems
> > something more appripriate for git-log(1).  The pre-git contributions
> > will be visible in old versions of the pages (i.e., if one sees
> > Jane Random Developer in CREDITS and wonders which pages she contributed
> > to, they can `git log -S 'Jane Random Developer'` and similar commands
> > to find out.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > Have a lovely night!
> > Alex
> >
> > >
> > > e.g.
> > > ~~~
> > > The glibc project stopped adding "Contributed by" lines to source files in 2012
> > > in favour of acknowledging contributors in the glibc manual and through the git
> > > log.  The record of existing "Contributed by" lines have now been moved to this
> > > file to acknowledge contributions by these developers to glibc.
> > >
> > > argp/argp-test.c:
> > >     Written by Miles Bader <miles@gnu.ai.mit.edu>.
> > >
> > > argp/tst-argp1.c:
> > >     Contributed by Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>, 2002.
> > > ...
> > > ~~~
> > > The top-level CONTRIBUTED-BY has ~3,000 Contributed/Written by lines.
> > >
> > > Sme of the authors predated the use of git and so it was simpler to keep the
> > > lines somewhere as part of the transition away from "Contributed by"-style
> > > lines.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cheers,
> > > Carlos.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
>
>
>
>

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Christoph Lameter (Ampere)]

Also regarding Andrew Morton's email address: I dont think osdl.org is
still valid. He uses linuxfoundation.org these days.
But you better ask him yourself.

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1245 bytes --]

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 09:13:23AM -0600, Tycho Andersen wrote:
> Hi Alex,

Hi Tycho,

> 
> On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:54:31PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> > (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> > found here:
> > <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> > 
> > Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> > notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> > <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> > in what affects you?
> 
> (thanks for clarifying about posting on-list.)
> 
> Yes, I approve. (Though I have changed to using tycho@tycho.pizza as
> my primary e-mail address, it would be handy if you could make that
> correction during this process as well, but not required.)

Thanks!  (I had already added you to CREDITS with that address, unless
I'm mistaken.  Can you please check if all's good?)


Have a lovely day!
Alex

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Tycho
> 

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3170 bytes --]

Hi Dave,

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 04:43:36PM +0100, Dave Martin wrote:
> > > Should the one-line replacement statement in each file refer back to
> > > the CREDITS file?
> > 
> > I prefer not, because then someone can copy the files to a different
> > repository, without needing to modify the notices (they might take the
> > CREDITS file as CREDITS_Linux-man-pages).
> 
> Fair enough, though would it make sense for the boilerplate line to at
> least become
> 
> 	# Copyright, The authors of the Linux man-pages project
> 
> ...?
>
> This remains meaningful out of context, but when shipped with the
> original tree this wording macthes up with the naming of the AUTHORS
> file (assuming that's what the file is called).

Hmmmm.  I see the point.  That sounds very reasonable.  Contributors
sounded more like inclusive of anyone who passes by and writes a few
lines, as opposed to authors which are usually considered only the long-
term ones.  But since we would list all of them as AUTHORS, they're
clearly included.  So, I'm going to do that change.

> > > Renaming the CREDITS file to AUTHORS and/or clarifying this in a brief
> > > top-level LICENSE / COPYING file might make the meaning clearer?
> > 
> > Yes, now that I discarded the idea of crediting *all* contributors, I
> > agree this file should be renamed to AUTHORS.  Regarding a file solely
> > to clarify that the AUTHORS file holds the copyright holders of the
> > project, I guess by calling it AUTHORS it would already be obvious.  I'm
> > hesitant to add another file for explaining that because the more
> > uppercase files there are in the root of the repo, the harder it is to
> > understand their relationship.  However, I can add something in the
> > README, where I already document what each file is.
> 
> Ack, it's probably fairly obvious what a file called "AUTHORS" means.
> 
> Just a suggestion, would something like this work in README:
> 
> +   AUTHORS
> +       List of individuals and organizations that have contributed
> +       content to the project.
> +

Certainly.  Thanks!

> This will still be a true description regardless of whether the list
> is complete or if non page content contributors are included.  (There
> are probably plenty of borderline cases as to whether something counts
> as a page content contribution or not.)

Yep.  For now, I haven't documented it, but I've drawn the line at:

	-  Had its name either in a copyright notice,
	-  or in a source line saying something like "modified by"
	-  or was 'Author' in a git commit.

Anyone who meets at least one of those has been included in CREDITS (to
be renamed to AUTHORS).

Exceptions are authors of code that was taken by this project, but who
didn't contribute to this project themselves.  For example, the regents
of the University of California wrote pages that have been incorporated
into this project, but they didn't consciously contribute to this
project.  Thus, I've retained their copyright notices, and didn't add
them to CREDITS.


Cheers,
Alex

> 
> Cheers
> ---Dave
> 

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5308 bytes --]

Hi Christoph,

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 11:22:21AM -0700, Christoph Lameter (Ampere) wrote:
> There is a pending patch to standardize all my email addresses in the
> kernel. This patch may conflict with the one in Andrew's tree.
> 
> The Email address going forward should be
> 
> Christoph Lameter <cl@gentwo.org>

Done.  Thanks!

Since the man-pages repo is separate from the kernel, it doesn't
conflict with the kernel one.


Have a lovely day!
Alex

> 
> 
> 
> On Fri, 9 May 2025, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> > (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> > found here:
> > <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> >
> > Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> > notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> > <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> > in what affects you?
> >
> > I've generated the BCC with
> >
> > 	$ git show 9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657 -- man \
> > 	| grep '^-[^-]' \
> > 	| grep @ \
> > 	| grep -o '[^     ]*@[^ ]*' \
> > 	| sed 's/,//g' \
> > 	| sed 's/\.$//' \
> > 	| sed 's/.*(//' \
> > 	| sed 's/<//' \
> > 	| sed 's/>//' \
> > 	| sed 's/\.)//' \
> > 	| sed 's/)//' \
> > 	| sort \
> > 	| uniq \
> > 	| sed 's/^/Bcc: /';
> >
> >
> > Have a lovely day!
> > Alex
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 11:28:29PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > Hi Carlos,
> > >
> > > On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 04:18:35PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > > > On 4/8/25 8:42 AM, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > > Hi Alex,
> > > > >
> > > > > At 2025-04-08T01:05:02+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > > > > > If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something
> > > > > > > > like:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > .\" See the Git revision history at
> > > > > > > > .\"   $URL
> > > > > > > > .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Good idea.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to
> > > > > > each page.  People interested in the history of a page will already
> > > > > > have a look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states
> > > > > > of a page, in which they'll find this information.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
> > > > > > consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.
> > > > >
> > > > > Acknowledged.  It's been a whole 7 weeks for so, so I don't clearly
> > > > > remember my reasoning from February, but my suggestion may have been at
> > > > > attempt to find a "conservative" alteration to file content or the
> > > > > expressed meaning of the comments.
> > > > >
> > > > > But, what's conservative in one dimension often is not in another, such
> > > > > as "labor required".
> > > > >
> > > > > I also agree that while Git is a complex suite of tools, "git log" is
> > > > > not among its deeper magicks.  At least not when run without arguments.
> > > >
> > > > We did something similar in glibc and created a CONTRIBUTED-BY file at the
> > > > top-level and moved all contribution lines out of the respective
> > > > files into the top-level file.
> > >
> > > Yep, a CREDITS file would be interesting.  I wouldn't keep info about
> > > which specific files were written by each contributor.  That seems
> > > something more appripriate for git-log(1).  The pre-git contributions
> > > will be visible in old versions of the pages (i.e., if one sees
> > > Jane Random Developer in CREDITS and wonders which pages she contributed
> > > to, they can `git log -S 'Jane Random Developer'` and similar commands
> > > to find out.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > >
> > > Have a lovely night!
> > > Alex
> > >
> > > >
> > > > e.g.
> > > > ~~~
> > > > The glibc project stopped adding "Contributed by" lines to source files in 2012
> > > > in favour of acknowledging contributors in the glibc manual and through the git
> > > > log.  The record of existing "Contributed by" lines have now been moved to this
> > > > file to acknowledge contributions by these developers to glibc.
> > > >
> > > > argp/argp-test.c:
> > > >     Written by Miles Bader <miles@gnu.ai.mit.edu>.
> > > >
> > > > argp/tst-argp1.c:
> > > >     Contributed by Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>, 2002.
> > > > ...
> > > > ~~~
> > > > The top-level CONTRIBUTED-BY has ~3,000 Contributed/Written by lines.
> > > >
> > > > Sme of the authors predated the use of git and so it was simpler to keep the
> > > > lines somewhere as part of the transition away from "Contributed by"-style
> > > > lines.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Carlos.
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
> >
> >
> >
> >

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 3820 bytes --]

Hi Dave,

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 08:49:39PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Hi Dave,
> 
> On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 04:43:36PM +0100, Dave Martin wrote:
> > > > Should the one-line replacement statement in each file refer back to
> > > > the CREDITS file?
> > > 
> > > I prefer not, because then someone can copy the files to a different
> > > repository, without needing to modify the notices (they might take the
> > > CREDITS file as CREDITS_Linux-man-pages).
> > 
> > Fair enough, though would it make sense for the boilerplate line to at
> > least become
> > 
> > 	# Copyright, The authors of the Linux man-pages project
> > 
> > ...?
> >
> > This remains meaningful out of context, but when shipped with the
> > original tree this wording macthes up with the naming of the AUTHORS
> > file (assuming that's what the file is called).
> 
> Hmmmm.  I see the point.  That sounds very reasonable.  Contributors
> sounded more like inclusive of anyone who passes by and writes a few
> lines, as opposed to authors which are usually considered only the long-
> term ones.  But since we would list all of them as AUTHORS, they're
> clearly included.  So, I'm going to do that change.
> 
> > > > Renaming the CREDITS file to AUTHORS and/or clarifying this in a brief
> > > > top-level LICENSE / COPYING file might make the meaning clearer?
> > > 
> > > Yes, now that I discarded the idea of crediting *all* contributors, I
> > > agree this file should be renamed to AUTHORS.  Regarding a file solely
> > > to clarify that the AUTHORS file holds the copyright holders of the
> > > project, I guess by calling it AUTHORS it would already be obvious.  I'm
> > > hesitant to add another file for explaining that because the more
> > > uppercase files there are in the root of the repo, the harder it is to
> > > understand their relationship.  However, I can add something in the
> > > README, where I already document what each file is.
> > 
> > Ack, it's probably fairly obvious what a file called "AUTHORS" means.
> > 
> > Just a suggestion, would something like this work in README:
> > 
> > +   AUTHORS
> > +       List of individuals and organizations that have contributed
> > +       content to the project.
> > +
> 
> Certainly.  Thanks!
> 
> > This will still be a true description regardless of whether the list
> > is complete or if non page content contributors are included.  (There
> > are probably plenty of borderline cases as to whether something counts
> > as a page content contribution or not.)
> 
> Yep.  For now, I haven't documented it, but I've drawn the line at:
> 
> 	-  Had its name either in a copyright notice,
> 	-  or in a source line saying something like "modified by"
> 	-  or was 'Author' in a git commit.
> 
> Anyone who meets at least one of those has been included in CREDITS (to
> be renamed to AUTHORS).
> 
> Exceptions are authors of code that was taken by this project, but who
> didn't contribute to this project themselves.  For example, the regents
> of the University of California wrote pages that have been incorporated
> into this project, but they didn't consciously contribute to this
> project.  Thus, I've retained their copyright notices, and didn't add
> them to CREDITS.

I've applied both changes already (currently in my branch):

<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/src/alx/linux/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?h=contrib&id=98c87fcf783f20da7aae8adbe21e1954d9e8f310>
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/src/alx/linux/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?h=contrib&id=d5218b220e41a1ed031eea6219237fda0a93d9b2>


Cheers,
Alex

> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Alex
> 
> > 
> > Cheers
> > ---Dave
> > 
> 
> -- 
> <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>



-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 475 bytes --]

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 11:31:58AM -0700, Christoph Lameter (Ampere) wrote:
> 
> Also regarding Andrew Morton's email address: I dont think osdl.org is
> still valid. He uses linuxfoundation.org these days.
> But you better ask him yourself.

Hi Christoph, Andrew,

Thanks!  I've bounced the original mail to him.  Andrew, I guess I
should use your LF address for the AUTHORS file, right?


Have a lovely night!
Alex

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Tycho Andersen]

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 08:35:15PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 09:13:23AM -0600, Tycho Andersen wrote:
> > Hi Alex,
> 
> Hi Tycho,
> 
> > 
> > On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:54:31PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> > > (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> > > found here:
> > > <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> > > 
> > > Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> > > notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> > > <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> > > in what affects you?
> > 
> > (thanks for clarifying about posting on-list.)
> > 
> > Yes, I approve. (Though I have changed to using tycho@tycho.pizza as
> > my primary e-mail address, it would be handy if you could make that
> > correction during this process as well, but not required.)
> 
> Thanks!  (I had already added you to CREDITS with that address, unless
> I'm mistaken.  Can you please check if all's good?)

Here I see:

https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/diff/CREDITS?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657

tycho@tycho.ws; but it's also fine if you want to keep the commit id
the same.

Cheers,

Tycho

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1918 bytes --]

Hi Tycho,

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:56:01PM -0600, Tycho Andersen wrote:
> > > Yes, I approve. (Though I have changed to using tycho@tycho.pizza as
> > > my primary e-mail address, it would be handy if you could make that
> > > correction during this process as well, but not required.)
> > 
> > Thanks!  (I had already added you to CREDITS with that address, unless
> > I'm mistaken.  Can you please check if all's good?)
> 
> Here I see:
> 
> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/diff/CREDITS?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657
> 
> tycho@tycho.ws; but it's also fine if you want to keep the commit id
> the same.

Ahh, I see.  There are three commits that touch that file:  The first
one took the names from "modified by" and similar lines in source code.
(You don't appear in that one.)  The second one took the names from
copyright notices.  I picked @tycho.ws in that one.  Then, the third one
took names from commit Author.  In that one, I updated your main to the
@tycho.pizza one.

	$ git log -p man-pages-6.14 -- AUTHORS CREDITS \
	| grep \
		-e ^commit \
		-e ^Date: \
		-e '^    \(CREDITS\|AUTHORS\|\*\|man/\)' \
		-e tycho \
		-e ^--- -e ^+++
	commit 0cf255ac79231999d79cd656f81013089d2d4153
	Date:   Fri Apr 11 16:15:50 2025 +0200
	    CREDITS: Add commit authors
	--- a/CREDITS
	+++ b/CREDITS
	-Tycho Andersen <tycho@tycho.ws>
	+Tycho Andersen <tycho@tycho.pizza>
	commit 9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657
	Date:   Fri Apr 11 02:19:48 2025 +0200
	    *, CREDITS: Unify copyright notices
	--- a/CREDITS
	+++ b/CREDITS
	+Tycho Andersen <tycho@tycho.ws>
	commit 52b7bab3a44fb5d2d464fa8acd6beee3b62269aa
	Date:   Fri Mar 14 14:02:41 2025 +0100
	    man/, CREDITS: Move in-source contribution records to CREDITS
	--- /dev/null
	+++ b/CREDITS


Have a lovely night!
Alex

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Andrew Morton]

On Fri, 9 May 2025 21:11:50 +0200 Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org> wrote:

> On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 11:31:58AM -0700, Christoph Lameter (Ampere) wrote:
> > 
> > Also regarding Andrew Morton's email address: I dont think osdl.org is
> > still valid. He uses linuxfoundation.org these days.
> > But you better ask him yourself.
> 
> Hi Christoph, Andrew,
> 
> Thanks!  I've bounced the original mail to him.  Andrew, I guess I
> should use your LF address for the AUTHORS file, right?

@osdl.org @linuxfoundation.org @linux-foundation.org @linux.com
@kernel.org all work.  I normally use (the outdated) @linux-foundation.org

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 982 bytes --]

Hi Andrew,

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:19:35PM -0700, Andrew Morton wrote:
> On Fri, 9 May 2025 21:11:50 +0200 Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org> wrote:
> 
> > On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 11:31:58AM -0700, Christoph Lameter (Ampere) wrote:
> > > 
> > > Also regarding Andrew Morton's email address: I dont think osdl.org is
> > > still valid. He uses linuxfoundation.org these days.
> > > But you better ask him yourself.
> > 
> > Hi Christoph, Andrew,
> > 
> > Thanks!  I've bounced the original mail to him.  Andrew, I guess I
> > should use your LF address for the AUTHORS file, right?
> 
> @osdl.org @linuxfoundation.org @linux-foundation.org @linux.com
> @kernel.org all work.  I normally use (the outdated) @linux-foundation.org

Do you expect any one to survive the others?  I guess I should use
whichever would last more.  If you have no preference, I'll just leave
it untouched.


Have a lovely night!
Alex

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Alejandro Colomar]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 728 bytes --]

Hi Oron,

On Sat, May 10, 2025 at 02:37:52AM +0300, Oron Peled wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I've no objection to the change.
> Only after I searched the list I recalled there was some "boot.7" man page I wrote many years ago.

:-)

> So this change actually promote me to a "contributor to the Linux
> man-pages project", instead of someone that wrote a small and
> unimportant man-page years ago ;-)
> 
> Thank you, the real contributors that are maintaining this for years.

IMO, you and many like you are as real contributors as the maintainers.
The project wouldn't be what it is without those many small
contributions.


Have a lovely day!
Alex

> --
> Oron Peled

-- 
<https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 833 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Tycho Andersen]

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 11:11:08PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Hi Tycho,
> 
> On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:56:01PM -0600, Tycho Andersen wrote:
> > > > Yes, I approve. (Though I have changed to using tycho@tycho.pizza as
> > > > my primary e-mail address, it would be handy if you could make that
> > > > correction during this process as well, but not required.)
> > > 
> > > Thanks!  (I had already added you to CREDITS with that address, unless
> > > I'm mistaken.  Can you please check if all's good?)
> > 
> > Here I see:
> > 
> > https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/diff/CREDITS?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657
> > 
> > tycho@tycho.ws; but it's also fine if you want to keep the commit id
> > the same.
> 
> Ahh, I see.  There are three commits that touch that file:  The first
> one took the names from "modified by" and similar lines in source code.
> (You don't appear in that one.)  The second one took the names from
> copyright notices.  I picked @tycho.ws in that one.  Then, the third one
> took names from commit Author.  In that one, I updated your main to the
> @tycho.pizza one.
> 
> 	$ git log -p man-pages-6.14 -- AUTHORS CREDITS \
> 	| grep \
> 		-e ^commit \
> 		-e ^Date: \
> 		-e '^    \(CREDITS\|AUTHORS\|\*\|man/\)' \
> 		-e tycho \
> 		-e ^--- -e ^+++
> 	commit 0cf255ac79231999d79cd656f81013089d2d4153
> 	Date:   Fri Apr 11 16:15:50 2025 +0200
> 	    CREDITS: Add commit authors
> 	--- a/CREDITS
> 	+++ b/CREDITS
> 	-Tycho Andersen <tycho@tycho.ws>
> 	+Tycho Andersen <tycho@tycho.pizza>
> 	commit 9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657
> 	Date:   Fri Apr 11 02:19:48 2025 +0200
> 	    *, CREDITS: Unify copyright notices
> 	--- a/CREDITS
> 	+++ b/CREDITS
> 	+Tycho Andersen <tycho@tycho.ws>
> 	commit 52b7bab3a44fb5d2d464fa8acd6beee3b62269aa
> 	Date:   Fri Mar 14 14:02:41 2025 +0100
> 	    man/, CREDITS: Move in-source contribution records to CREDITS
> 	--- /dev/null
> 	+++ b/CREDITS

Looks great, thank you.

Tycho

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Sean Young]

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:54:31PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> found here:
> <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> 
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?

The normal way to do this is a Signed-off-by on a public list and then
collect those into the commit.

Sure I am okay with this but I don't see the point of this "process",
where agreements just collect in your mailboxes.


Sean

> 
> I've generated the BCC with
> 
> 	$ git show 9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657 -- man \
> 	| grep '^-[^-]' \
> 	| grep @ \
> 	| grep -o '[^     ]*@[^ ]*' \
> 	| sed 's/,//g' \
> 	| sed 's/\.$//' \
> 	| sed 's/.*(//' \
> 	| sed 's/<//' \
> 	| sed 's/>//' \
> 	| sed 's/\.)//' \
> 	| sed 's/)//' \
> 	| sort \
> 	| uniq \
> 	| sed 's/^/Bcc: /';
> 
> 
> Have a lovely day!
> Alex
> 
> On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 11:28:29PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > Hi Carlos,
> > 
> > On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 04:18:35PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > > On 4/8/25 8:42 AM, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > Hi Alex,
> > > > 
> > > > At 2025-04-08T01:05:02+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > > > > If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something
> > > > > > > like:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > .\" See the Git revision history at
> > > > > > > .\"   $URL
> > > > > > > .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Good idea.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to
> > > > > each page.  People interested in the history of a page will already
> > > > > have a look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states
> > > > > of a page, in which they'll find this information.
> > > > > 
> > > > > And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
> > > > > consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.
> > > > 
> > > > Acknowledged.  It's been a whole 7 weeks for so, so I don't clearly
> > > > remember my reasoning from February, but my suggestion may have been at
> > > > attempt to find a "conservative" alteration to file content or the
> > > > expressed meaning of the comments.
> > > > 
> > > > But, what's conservative in one dimension often is not in another, such
> > > > as "labor required".
> > > > 
> > > > I also agree that while Git is a complex suite of tools, "git log" is
> > > > not among its deeper magicks.  At least not when run without arguments.
> > > 
> > > We did something similar in glibc and created a CONTRIBUTED-BY file at the
> > > top-level and moved all contribution lines out of the respective
> > > files into the top-level file.
> > 
> > Yep, a CREDITS file would be interesting.  I wouldn't keep info about
> > which specific files were written by each contributor.  That seems
> > something more appripriate for git-log(1).  The pre-git contributions
> > will be visible in old versions of the pages (i.e., if one sees
> > Jane Random Developer in CREDITS and wonders which pages she contributed
> > to, they can `git log -S 'Jane Random Developer'` and similar commands
> > to find out.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > 
> > Have a lovely night!
> > Alex
> > 
> > > 
> > > e.g.
> > > ~~~
> > > The glibc project stopped adding "Contributed by" lines to source files in 2012
> > > in favour of acknowledging contributors in the glibc manual and through the git
> > > log.  The record of existing "Contributed by" lines have now been moved to this
> > > file to acknowledge contributions by these developers to glibc.
> > > 
> > > argp/argp-test.c:
> > >     Written by Miles Bader <miles@gnu.ai.mit.edu>.
> > > 
> > > argp/tst-argp1.c:
> > >     Contributed by Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>, 2002.
> > > ...
> > > ~~~
> > > The top-level CONTRIBUTED-BY has ~3,000 Contributed/Written by lines.
> > > 
> > > Sme of the authors predated the use of git and so it was simpler to keep the
> > > lines somewhere as part of the transition away from "Contributed by"-style
> > > lines.
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Cheers,
> > > Carlos.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Dave Martin]

Hi,

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 09:07:47PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Hi Dave,
> 
> On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 08:49:39PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > Hi Dave,
> > 
> > On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 04:43:36PM +0100, Dave Martin wrote:

[...]

> > > Just a suggestion, would something like this work in README:
> > > 
> > > +   AUTHORS
> > > +       List of individuals and organizations that have contributed
> > > +       content to the project.
> > > +
> > 
> > Certainly.  Thanks!
> > 
> > > This will still be a true description regardless of whether the list
> > > is complete or if non page content contributors are included.  (There
> > > are probably plenty of borderline cases as to whether something counts
> > > as a page content contribution or not.)
> > 
> > Yep.  For now, I haven't documented it, but I've drawn the line at:
> > 
> > 	-  Had its name either in a copyright notice,
> > 	-  or in a source line saying something like "modified by"
> > 	-  or was 'Author' in a git commit.
> > 
> > Anyone who meets at least one of those has been included in CREDITS (to
> > be renamed to AUTHORS).
> > 
> > Exceptions are authors of code that was taken by this project, but who
> > didn't contribute to this project themselves.  For example, the regents
> > of the University of California wrote pages that have been incorporated
> > into this project, but they didn't consciously contribute to this
> > project.  Thus, I've retained their copyright notices, and didn't add
> > them to CREDITS.

Seems reasonable.

> I've applied both changes already (currently in my branch):
> 
> <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/src/alx/linux/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?h=contrib&id=98c87fcf783f20da7aae8adbe21e1954d9e8f310>
> <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/src/alx/linux/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?h=contrib&id=d5218b220e41a1ed031eea6219237fda0a93d9b2>

Looks good to me.  Thanks for the credit.

Cheers
---Dave

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Stefan Hajnoczi]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 4683 bytes --]

On Fri, May 09, 2025 at 02:54:31PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> found here:
> <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
> 
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?

Hi Alejandro,
I approve. Thanks!

Stefan

> 
> I've generated the BCC with
> 
> 	$ git show 9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657 -- man \
> 	| grep '^-[^-]' \
> 	| grep @ \
> 	| grep -o '[^     ]*@[^ ]*' \
> 	| sed 's/,//g' \
> 	| sed 's/\.$//' \
> 	| sed 's/.*(//' \
> 	| sed 's/<//' \
> 	| sed 's/>//' \
> 	| sed 's/\.)//' \
> 	| sed 's/)//' \
> 	| sort \
> 	| uniq \
> 	| sed 's/^/Bcc: /';
> 
> 
> Have a lovely day!
> Alex
> 
> On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 11:28:29PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > Hi Carlos,
> > 
> > On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 04:18:35PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > > On 4/8/25 8:42 AM, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > Hi Alex,
> > > > 
> > > > At 2025-04-08T01:05:02+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > > > > If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something
> > > > > > > like:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > .\" See the Git revision history at
> > > > > > > .\"   $URL
> > > > > > > .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Good idea.
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to
> > > > > each page.  People interested in the history of a page will already
> > > > > have a look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states
> > > > > of a page, in which they'll find this information.
> > > > > 
> > > > > And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
> > > > > consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.
> > > > 
> > > > Acknowledged.  It's been a whole 7 weeks for so, so I don't clearly
> > > > remember my reasoning from February, but my suggestion may have been at
> > > > attempt to find a "conservative" alteration to file content or the
> > > > expressed meaning of the comments.
> > > > 
> > > > But, what's conservative in one dimension often is not in another, such
> > > > as "labor required".
> > > > 
> > > > I also agree that while Git is a complex suite of tools, "git log" is
> > > > not among its deeper magicks.  At least not when run without arguments.
> > > 
> > > We did something similar in glibc and created a CONTRIBUTED-BY file at the
> > > top-level and moved all contribution lines out of the respective
> > > files into the top-level file.
> > 
> > Yep, a CREDITS file would be interesting.  I wouldn't keep info about
> > which specific files were written by each contributor.  That seems
> > something more appripriate for git-log(1).  The pre-git contributions
> > will be visible in old versions of the pages (i.e., if one sees
> > Jane Random Developer in CREDITS and wonders which pages she contributed
> > to, they can `git log -S 'Jane Random Developer'` and similar commands
> > to find out.
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > 
> > Have a lovely night!
> > Alex
> > 
> > > 
> > > e.g.
> > > ~~~
> > > The glibc project stopped adding "Contributed by" lines to source files in 2012
> > > in favour of acknowledging contributors in the glibc manual and through the git
> > > log.  The record of existing "Contributed by" lines have now been moved to this
> > > file to acknowledge contributions by these developers to glibc.
> > > 
> > > argp/argp-test.c:
> > >     Written by Miles Bader <miles@gnu.ai.mit.edu>.
> > > 
> > > argp/tst-argp1.c:
> > >     Contributed by Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>, 2002.
> > > ...
> > > ~~~
> > > The top-level CONTRIBUTED-BY has ~3,000 Contributed/Written by lines.
> > > 
> > > Sme of the authors predated the use of git and so it was simpler to keep the
> > > lines somewhere as part of the transition away from "Contributed by"-style
> > > lines.
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > Cheers,
> > > Carlos.
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>



[-- Attachment #2: signature.asc --]
[-- Type: application/pgp-signature, Size: 488 bytes --]

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Thomas Gleixner]

On Fri, May 09 2025 at 14:54, Alejandro Colomar wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> found here:
> <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
>
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?

Acked-by: Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>

Re: Removing in-source contribution records contributer

[Florent Revest]

On Fri, May 9, 2025 at 2:55 PM Alejandro Colomar <alx@kernel.org> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I've added to BCC everyone whose copyright notices have been removed
> (those that noted an email).  The full thread for this discussion can be
> found here:
> <https://lore.kernel.org/linux-man/jpin2dbnp5vpitnh7l4qmvkamzq3h3xljzsznrudgioox3nn72@57uybxbe3h4p/T/#u>
>
> Please let me know if it's okay to you to transform your copyright
> notices to make them uniform?  That is, do you approve
> <https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/docs/man-pages/man-pages.git/commit/?id=9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657>
> in what affects you?

Yes. Thank you!

> I've generated the BCC with
>
>         $ git show 9f2986c34166085225bb5606ebfd4952054e1657 -- man \
>         | grep '^-[^-]' \
>         | grep @ \
>         | grep -o '[^     ]*@[^ ]*' \
>         | sed 's/,//g' \
>         | sed 's/\.$//' \
>         | sed 's/.*(//' \
>         | sed 's/<//' \
>         | sed 's/>//' \
>         | sed 's/\.)//' \
>         | sed 's/)//' \
>         | sort \
>         | uniq \
>         | sed 's/^/Bcc: /';
>
>
> Have a lovely day!
> Alex
>
> On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 11:28:29PM +0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > Hi Carlos,
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 08, 2025 at 04:18:35PM -0400, Carlos O'Donell wrote:
> > > On 4/8/25 8:42 AM, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > Hi Alex,
> > > >
> > > > At 2025-04-08T01:05:02+0200, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > > On Thu, Feb 13, 2025 at 12:20:58AM +0100, Alejandro Colomar wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, Feb 12, 2025 at 05:02:10PM -0600, G. Branden Robinson wrote:
> > > > > > > If you do this, I suggest you replace these lines with something
> > > > > > > like:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > .\" See the Git revision history at
> > > > > > > .\"   $URL
> > > > > > > .\" for records of changes and contributors to this file.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Good idea.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm thinking I won't do that.  I don't want to add that overhead to
> > > > > each page.  People interested in the history of a page will already
> > > > > have a look at the git history, and there they'll find the old states
> > > > > of a page, in which they'll find this information.
> > > > >
> > > > > And it would require some non-trivial work to add this note
> > > > > consistently.  I'll go with a removal without replacement, I think.
> > > >
> > > > Acknowledged.  It's been a whole 7 weeks for so, so I don't clearly
> > > > remember my reasoning from February, but my suggestion may have been at
> > > > attempt to find a "conservative" alteration to file content or the
> > > > expressed meaning of the comments.
> > > >
> > > > But, what's conservative in one dimension often is not in another, such
> > > > as "labor required".
> > > >
> > > > I also agree that while Git is a complex suite of tools, "git log" is
> > > > not among its deeper magicks.  At least not when run without arguments.
> > >
> > > We did something similar in glibc and created a CONTRIBUTED-BY file at the
> > > top-level and moved all contribution lines out of the respective
> > > files into the top-level file.
> >
> > Yep, a CREDITS file would be interesting.  I wouldn't keep info about
> > which specific files were written by each contributor.  That seems
> > something more appripriate for git-log(1).  The pre-git contributions
> > will be visible in old versions of the pages (i.e., if one sees
> > Jane Random Developer in CREDITS and wonders which pages she contributed
> > to, they can `git log -S 'Jane Random Developer'` and similar commands
> > to find out.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> > Have a lovely night!
> > Alex
> >
> > >
> > > e.g.
> > > ~~~
> > > The glibc project stopped adding "Contributed by" lines to source files in 2012
> > > in favour of acknowledging contributors in the glibc manual and through the git
> > > log.  The record of existing "Contributed by" lines have now been moved to this
> > > file to acknowledge contributions by these developers to glibc.
> > >
> > > argp/argp-test.c:
> > >     Written by Miles Bader <miles@gnu.ai.mit.edu>.
> > >
> > > argp/tst-argp1.c:
> > >     Contributed by Ulrich Drepper <drepper@redhat.com>, 2002.
> > > ...
> > > ~~~
> > > The top-level CONTRIBUTED-BY has ~3,000 Contributed/Written by lines.
> > >
> > > Sme of the authors predated the use of git and so it was simpler to keep the
> > > lines somewhere as part of the transition away from "Contributed by"-style
> > > lines.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Cheers,
> > > Carlos.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>
>
>
>
> --
> <https://www.alejandro-colomar.es/>