Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Peter]

Thanks Riley and Ray!


rhw@InfraDead.Org said:
> Basically, to locate the actual problem, we need to confirm the
> precice differences between a working configuration and one that
> isn't. Also, where there are two or more programs that can be
> identified as causing a specific problem in one configuration but not
> in another, we can be fairly sure that the problem is in something
> that is common to all of those programs.

> For this reason, can you first confirm that you can upgrade tuxracer
> and chromium to the versions supplied with 7.3 without having this
> problem turn up on you? 

If I try to install tuxracer from 7.3 it is asking for some libraries of 
which libtcl.so.0 I can not find anywhere.

Chromium is asking as well for several libraries which I can't find at all 
except for zlib....

Doing  ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/xscreensaver I see that there is a library 
libcrypt.so.1
which is being asked by chromium and I cannot see on the install CDs of RH7.3.

ldd /usr/bin/tuxracer
        libSM.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6 (0x40026000)
        libICE.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6 (0x4002f000)
        libX11.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x40046000)
        libXi.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXi.so.6 (0x40126000)
        libXext.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x4012e000)
        libXmu.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXmu.so.6 (0x4013c000)
        libXt.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 (0x40152000)
        libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x401a0000)
        libtcl8.3.so => /usr/lib/libtcl8.3.so (0x401a4000)
        libSDL-1.1.so.0 => /usr/lib/libSDL-1.1.so.0 (0x4022b000)
        libpthread.so.0 => /lib/i686/libpthread.so.0 (0x40299000)
        libSDL_mixer-1.1.so.0 => /usr/lib/libSDL_mixer-1.1.so.0 (0x402ae000)
        libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 (0x402e8000)
        libGLU.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGLU.so.1 (0x4054a000)
        libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3 => /usr/lib/libstdc++-libc6.2-2.so.3 
(0x4055e000)
        libm.so.6 => /lib/i686/libm.so.6 (0x405a2000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib/i686/libc.so.6 (0x405c6000)
        libartsc.so.0 => /usr/lib/libartsc.so.0 (0x406f6000)
        libesd.so.0 => /usr/lib/libesd.so.0 (0x406fc000)
        libaudiofile.so.0 => /usr/lib/libaudiofile.so.0 (0x40703000)
        libsmpeg-0.4.so.0 => /usr/lib/libsmpeg-0.4.so.0 (0x40714000)
        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000)
 
ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/xscreensaver
        libXmu.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXmu.so.6 (0x40026000)
        libSM.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libSM.so.6 (0x4003c000)
        libICE.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libICE.so.6 (0x40045000)
        libXt.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXt.so.6 (0x4005c000)
        libX11.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x400a9000)
        libXext.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x40189000)
        libpam.so.0 => /lib/libpam.so.0 (0x40197000)
        libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x401a0000)
        libcrypt.so.1 => /lib/libcrypt.so.1 (0x401a4000)
        libc.so.6 => /lib/i686/libc.so.6 (0x401d2000)
        /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x40000000)
 
rhw@InfraDead.Org said:
> You will find that the glibc library is common to every program on
> your system

There is no glibc or is it the same as libc.

ray@comarre.com said:
> A. If Peter sees the RH 7.3 failure with -ANY- command-line app.
> (Including  the details if the answer is yes.)

> B. What video card and X server are involved, and what versions are in
> the  "before" and "after" serups.

> C. When the keyboard locks, is the system still running or not? For
> example, can you ssh or telnet to it? Can you ping it? I assume the
> keyboard problem prevents your switching to a vt, but if you have
> (say)  "top" running in an xterm, does it continue to run and show
> sensible  process behavior? Any one of these tests should do; I list
> several because  I can't remember is this system is on a LAN, or what
> services it might be  running if it is.

Answers:
A. I found it only in xsceensaver, tuxracer and chromium which might not 
exclude others I have not tried. Gnucash, gnumeric, mozilla, opera, 
staroffice, Xephem all worked with no problem.

B. My mainboard is P6STMT with a SiS630ET chipset which includes integrated 
built-in video, audio, networking and communication capabilities. X server 
??? I guess there was no change.

C. When the keybord locks the system seems still to be running. In chromium 
the mouse arrow can still be seen moving yet does not respond to clicking and 
the chromium background music continues playing. In xscreensaver blank 
screen, 
no mouse movement to be seen, time announcement still working. In tuxracer 
all blank, no music, nothing.
I can't answer the other questions since I am scared to reinstall RH7.3.
There is no LAN.

Regards

-- 
Peter


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Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Ray Olszewski]

Responding only to "my" portion of this message -- I'll leave the libraries 
part for Riley.

At 02:23 PM 8/10/02 +0800, Peter wrote:

>Thanks Riley and Ray!
[...]
>rhw@InfraDead.Org said:
> > You will find that the glibc library is common to every program on
> > your system
>
>There is no glibc or is it the same as libc.

Yes, it is the same.


>ray@comarre.com said:
> > A. If Peter sees the RH 7.3 failure with -ANY- command-line app.
> > (Including  the details if the answer is yes.)
>
> > B. What video card and X server are involved, and what versions are in
> > the  "before" and "after" serups.
>
> > C. When the keyboard locks, is the system still running or not? For
> > example, can you ssh or telnet to it? Can you ping it? I assume the
> > keyboard problem prevents your switching to a vt, but if you have
> > (say)  "top" running in an xterm, does it continue to run and show
> > sensible  process behavior? Any one of these tests should do; I list
> > several because  I can't remember is this system is on a LAN, or what
> > services it might be  running if it is.
>
>Answers:
>A. I found it only in xsceensaver, tuxracer and chromium which might not
>exclude others I have not tried. Gnucash, gnumeric, mozilla, opera,
>staroffice, Xephem all worked with no problem.

I did a quick check, and the only resources these three *seem* to have in 
common are glibc and xlibs. And pretty much everything that is an X app 
uses those libraries. tuxrecer and chromim are OpenGL apps, but apparently 
xscreensaver is not.

The one characteristic I see as common to the three problem apps, but 
absent in the OK apps, is speed and frequency of screen updating. They 
would be more likely to trip an infrequently occurring failure in the X 
server, simply because they make a lot more calls to it.

>B. My mainboard is P6STMT with a SiS630ET chipset which includes integrated
>built-in video, audio, networking and communication capabilities. X server
>??? I guess there was no change.

Bad guess. I'd bet that you are switching from XFree86-3.3.6 or so to 
XFree86-4.something, and this is a big change. I'm not sure where RH puts X 
config info, but look for a file named XF86Config (maybe 
/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 for the new version) to see which X server you are 
running.

>C. When the keybord locks the system seems still to be running. In chromium
>the mouse arrow can still be seen moving yet does not respond to clicking and
>the chromium background music continues playing. In xscreensaver blank
>screen,
>no mouse movement to be seen, time announcement still working. In tuxracer
>all blank, no music, nothing.
>I can't answer the other questions since I am scared to reinstall RH7.3.
>There is no LAN.

Yes, this sounds like the problem is limited to a console failure, and that 
it is specific to X. That makes the kernel an unlikely source for the 
problem. I'd lean toward an undiagnosed incompatibility between your 
onboard video and the X server that the RH installed is guessing is right 
for it.



--
-------------------------------------------"Never tell me the odds!"--------
Ray Olszewski					-- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Peter]

Originally to: All


Hi,

once more on this subject before closing it.

Peter said:
>>I made that switch with RH7.1 some time ago with no problems.
>>7.1 runs on XFree86-4.0.3-5 and and 7.3 om XFree-4.2.0-8.

Ray Olszewski said:
> This move by Red Hat may be optimistic. Even Debian unstable (Sid)
> still runs XFree86 4.1.0-17. 

And I think you were asking what RH7.2 is using. It's XFree86-4.1.0-3 on the 
Cd I borrowed from a friend. I will upgrade to that one now and copy what is 
useful from 7.3 to 7.2.

Thanks & regards
-- 
Peter

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Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Peter]

Hi,

once more on this subject before closing it.

Peter said:
>>I made that switch with RH7.1 some time ago with no problems.
>>7.1 runs on XFree86-4.0.3-5 and and 7.3 om XFree-4.2.0-8.

Ray Olszewski said:
> This move by Red Hat may be optimistic. Even Debian unstable (Sid)
> still runs XFree86 4.1.0-17. 

And I think you were asking what RH7.2 is using. It's XFree86-4.1.0-3 on the 
Cd I borrowed from a friend. I will upgrade to that one now and copy what is 
useful from 7.3 to 7.2.

Thanks & regards
-- 
Peter

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Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Peter]

In-Reply-To: Message from Ray Olszewski <ray@comarre.com> 
   of "Fri, 09 Aug 2002 23:59:11 MST." 
<5.1.0.14.1.20020809234007.0208bd20@celine>

Thanks!

ray@comarre.com said:
> The one characteristic I see as common to the three problem apps, but
> absent in the OK apps, is speed and frequency of screen updating. They
>  would be more likely to trip an infrequently occurring failure in the
> X  server, simply because they make a lot more calls to it. 

I came slowly to this conclusion myself that it must have something to do 
with the graphics.

ray@comarre.com said:
> I'd bet that you are switching from XFree86-3.3.6 or so to
> XFree86-4.something, and this is a big change. I'm not sure where RH
> puts X  config info, but look for a file named XF86Config (maybe  /etc/
> X11/XF86Config-4 for the new version) to see which X server you are
> running.
I made that switch with RH7.1 some time ago with no problems.
7.1 runs on XFree86-4.0.3-5 and and 7.3 om XFree-4.2.0-8. It is there 
/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 but I can not find anything specific as to what X 
server I am running. Must be my ignorance.

If you think that the problem might be in these XF86Config files and I have 
no problem with RH7.1, how about installing the kernel of RH7.3, libraries 
etc and then replacing the 7.3 XF86Config files with the ones of RH7.1.

BTW I posted the problem as well to the redhat-install list and somebody 
sugested
to turn off the apmd system (advanced power management) by unmarking
the "apmd" entry in ntsysv.
What do you think about that? Would that have something to do with tuxracer 
or chromium?

Regards

-- 
Peter
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Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Ray Olszewski]

At 11:25 AM 8/11/02 +0800, Peter wrote:
>[...]
>I made that switch with RH7.1 some time ago with no problems.
>7.1 runs on XFree86-4.0.3-5 and and 7.3 om XFree-4.2.0-8.

This move by Red Hat may be optimistic. Even Debian unstable (Sid) still 
runs XFree86 4.1.0-17.

>It is there
>/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 but I can not find anything specific as to what X
>server I am running. Must be my ignorance.

You want the "Driver" entry in the "Device" block. Here is mine as an example:

         Section "Device"
                         Identifier      "ATI OEM Card"
                         Driver          "ati"
         EndSection

>If you think that the problem might be in these XF86Config files and I have
>no problem with RH7.1, how about installing the kernel of RH7.3, libraries
>etc and then replacing the 7.3 XF86Config files with the ones of RH7.1.

Risky. Likely to encounter library incompatibilities.

>BTW I posted the problem as well to the redhat-install list and somebody
>sugested
>to turn off the apmd system (advanced power management) by unmarking
>the "apmd" entry in ntsysv.
>What do you think about that? Would that have something to do with tuxracer
>or chromium?


Well outside my real expertise, but it seems farfetched, given that the 
system is running and only the keyboard (and perhaps portions of the 
display) has failed.



--
-------------------------------------------"Never tell me the odds!"--------
Ray Olszewski					-- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Riley Williams]

Hi Peter.

>> I made that switch with RH7.1 some time ago with no problems.
>> 7.1 runs on XFree86-4.0.3-5 and 7.3 on XFree-4.2.0-8.

> This move by Red Hat may be optimistic. Even Debian unstable (Sid)
> still runs XFree86 4.1.0-17.

That is certainly possible. What version does RH 7.2 use?

XFree86 is extremely difficult to downgrade. However, one option may
exist if you have a CD-writer, and that is to create a CDR set with the
7.3 image, but with the XFree86 RPM's from 7.2 rather than the ones
supplied with 7.3 and install from that.

>> It is there /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 but I can not find anything
>> specific as to what X server I am running. Must be my ignorance.

> You want the "Driver" entry in the "Device" block.
> Here is mine as an example:
>
>	Section "Device"
>		Identifier	"ATI OEM Card"
>		Driver		"ati"
>	EndSection

>> If you think that the problem might be in these XF86Config files
>> and I have no problem with RH7.1, how about installing the kernel
>> of RH7.3, libraries etc and then replacing the 7.3 XF86Config files
>> with the ones of RH7.1.

> Risky. Likely to encounter library incompatibilities.

Probably impossible.

>> BTW I posted the problem as well to the redhat-install list and
>> somebody sugested to turn off the apmd system (advanced power
>> management) by unmarking the "apmd" entry in ntsysv. What do you
>> think about that? Would that have something to do with tuxracer or
>> chromium?

> Well outside my real expertise, but it seems farfetched, given that
> the system is running and only the keyboard (and perhaps portions of
> the display) has failed.

I can't comment re tuxracer and chromium, but that could easily be a
problem with xscreensaver as it kicks into operation is precicely the
same circumstances as apmd does. However, it's easy to test for, as
apmd is, after all, a piece of software. If apmd is the problem, then
upgrading to the version of apmd supplied with 7.3 will cause the
problem to start occurring on your 7.1 based system.

If that causes the problem to occur, then you can cure it either by
downgrading to the 7.1 version again or, more simply, by disabling
apmd with the `chkconfig apmd off` command.

Best wishes from Riley.

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Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Peter]

Thanks Riley

pfheiss@philonline said:

>.....
> When I recently upgraded to RH7.3 I got total keyboard locks when
> trying to run xscreensaver, tuxracer and chromium and may be others,
> necessitating dirty reboot by the reset botton. >
>.....
> I, therefore, conclude that the problem is somewhere whithin with
> RH7.3 and possibly not with my video card which is SiS 630 since it
> works fine in RH7.1. >


rhw@InfraDead.Org said:
>  2. For each program where those versions are different, please see
>     if you can install a copy of the same version used under RH 7.3
>     on your RH 7.1 based system. If you can, please determine if it
>     is stable under 7.1 or if it also fails there. 

I tried it with xscreensaver. The version in RH7.1 is/was 3.29-3.i386.rpm and 
the one of RH7.3 is 3.33-4.i386.rpm. It upgraded flawlessly and seems to be 
stable. No hang no keyboard lock-up which I could induce in RH7.3 by clicking 
on Blank Screen Now in xscreensaver-demo or when the display at set time 
would change. 

If I recall correctly I tried to install the xsceensaver of RH7.1 in Rh7.3 
and it would lock-up as well, however, I am not so sure anymore if it did 
install at all. 

So the problem does not semm to be with the particular programs it must be 
most likely within the kernel of RH7.3.

Regards



-- 
Peter
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Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Riley Williams]

Hi Peter.

>>> When I recently upgraded to RH7.3 I got total keyboard locks when
>>> trying to run xscreensaver, tuxracer and chromium and may be others,
>>> necessitating dirty reboot by the reset botton. >
>>>
>>> I, therefore, conclude that the problem is somewhere whithin with
>>> RH7.3 and possibly not with my video card which is SiS 630 since it
>>> works fine in RH7.1. >

>>  2. For each program where those versions are different, please see
>>     if you can install a copy of the same version used under RH 7.3
>>     on your RH 7.1 based system. If you can, please determine if it
>>     is stable under 7.1 or if it also fails there. 

> I tried it with xscreensaver. The version in RH7.1 is/was
> 3.29-3.i386.rpm and the one of RH7.3 is 3.33-4.i386.rpm. It upgraded
> flawlessly and seems to be stable. No hang no keyboard lock-up which
> I could induce in RH7.3 by clicking on Blank Screen Now in
> xscreensaver-demo or when the display at set time would change.
>
> If I recall correctly I tried to install the xsceensaver of RH7.1 in
> Rh7.3 and it would lock-up as well, however, I am not so sure
> anymore if it did install at all.
>
> So the problem does not semm to be with the particular programs it
> must be most likely within the kernel of RH7.3.

There are several possible areas where the problem could be...

 1. In the kernel itself, as you state.

 2. In the libc or glibc library.

 3. In one of the other libraries used by the said program.

 4. In the program itself.

Basically, to locate the actual problem, we need to confirm the precice
differences between a working configuration and one that isn't. Also,
where there are two or more programs that can be identified as causing
a specific problem in one configuration but not in another, we can be
fairly sure that the problem is in something that is common to all of
those programs.

For this reason, can you first confirm that you can upgrade tuxracer and
chromium to the versions supplied with 7.3 without having this problem
turn up on you?

When you have done so, can you run ldd on each of the resulting programs
and post the results here please? That will give us a list of libraries
used by each of those programs. The important ones are the libraries
that are common to all three programs, and the libraries that are not
common to all three can be ignored. You will find that the glibc library
is common to every program on your system, but specific programs use
specific other libraries as well. Always check the other libraries first
as a problem in glibc would normally show itself right across the system.

The next stage would be to check which versions of those libraries are
installed on a 7.3 system, and then upgrade the libraries one at a time
until either the problem recurs or you have the same versions of all of
the libraries installed on your 7.1 system.

If the problem recurs when any one of the libraries is installed, then
the problem is in that library. Only if one succeeds in installing all
of the libraries without the problem occurring can one definitely state
that the problem is in the kernel.

Best wishes from Riley.

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Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Ray Olszewski]

See below.

At 09:02 AM 8/9/02 +0100, Riley Williams wrote:
>[...]
> > So the problem does not semm to be with the particular programs it
> > must be most likely within the kernel of RH7.3.
>
>There are several possible areas where the problem could be...
>
>  1. In the kernel itself, as you state.
>
>  2. In the libc or glibc library.
>
>  3. In one of the other libraries used by the said program.
>
>  4. In the program itself.
>
>Basically, to locate the actual problem, we need to confirm the precice
>differences between a working configuration and one that isn't. Also,
>where there are two or more programs that can be identified as causing
>a specific problem in one configuration but not in another, we can be
>fairly sure that the problem is in something that is common to all of
>those programs.


May I add one suggestion to the (otherwise) excellent list you provided? 
The problem might be in X11, which surely changed version between RH 7.1 
and 7.3. This source of the problem would, in fact, be my first *guess*. It 
would be worth knowing --

A. If Peter sees the RH 7.3 failure with -ANY- command-line app. (Including 
the details if the answer is yes.)

B. What video card and X server are involved, and what versions are in the 
"before" and "after" serups.

C. When the keyboard locks, is the system still running or not? For 
example, can you ssh or telnet to it? Can you ping it? I assume the 
keyboard problem prevents your switching to a vt, but if you have (say) 
"top" running in an xterm, does it continue to run and show sensible 
process behavior? Any one of these tests should do; I list several because 
I can't remember is this system is on a LAN, or what services it might be 
running if it is. If you can do nothing else, set up a background job that 
writes the time to a file every minute, then after you reboot, see when it 
stopped writing.

Also, I am not a Red Hat user, but RH does have a system for online updates 
to correct, at least, security holes and other critical bugs. Peter, have 
you applied all the updates and patches RH has released for 7.3? 
Specifically, the ones listed in the directory at 
ftp://ftp.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/updates/7.3/en/os/i386/ . From the 
package names, I'd guess these are mostly security updates ... but there is 
a set of glibc updates here. And one for libstdc++.


--
-------------------------------------------"Never tell me the odds!"--------
Ray Olszewski					-- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
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RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Peter]

Hi,

When I recently upgraded to RH7.3 I got total keyboard locks when trying
to run xscreensaver, tuxracer and chromium and may be others,
necessitating dirty reboot by the reset botton.

In order to go on working I had to reinstall RH7.1 where there is no such
problem at all neither with xscreensaver, tuxracer nor any other program.

I, therefore, conclude that the problem is somewhere whithin with RH7.3
and possibly not with my video card which is SiS 630 since it works fine
in RH7.1.

Is this a known problem with RH7.3?

If so are there corrective patches already and where do I find them?

Regards
 --
Peter

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Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[pa3gcu]

On Thursday 08 August 2002 03:42, Peter wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When I recently upgraded to RH7.3 I got total keyboard locks when trying
> to run xscreensaver, tuxracer and chromium and may be others,
> necessitating dirty reboot by the reset botton.
>
> In order to go on working I had to reinstall RH7.1 where there is no such
> problem at all neither with xscreensaver, tuxracer nor any other program.
>
> I, therefore, conclude that the problem is somewhere whithin with RH7.3
> and possibly not with my video card which is SiS 630 since it works fine
> in RH7.1.
>
> Is this a known problem with RH7.3?
>
> If so are there corrective patches already and where do I find them?

I have read on a newsgroup a simalar problem, i think the group was 
alt.os.linux.slackware, you can use google to see if it turns up anything 
positive. IIRC, there were some nice looking suggestions to help the problem, 
one was DGA extentions i belive, however i am not all to sure now that i have 
said that.
Sorry i cant help more.


>
> Regards
>  --
> Peter
>

-- 
Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/

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Re: RH7.3 keyborad lock-up

[Riley Williams]

Hi Peter.

> When I recently upgraded to RH7.3 I got total keyboard locks when
> trying to run xscreensaver, tuxracer and chromium and may be others,
> necessitating dirty reboot by the reset botton.
> 
> In order to go on working I had to reinstall RH7.1 where there is no
> such problem at all neither with xscreensaver, tuxracer nor any
> other program.
> 
> I, therefore, conclude that the problem is somewhere whithin with
> RH7.3 and possibly not with my video card which is SiS 630 since it
> works fine in RH7.1.
> 
> Is this a known problem with RH7.3?
> 
> If so are there corrective patches already and where do I find them?

To help track these problems down using your 7.1 system, do the
following:

 1. For each program you know of that causes problems under RH 7.3,
    determine the version of that program you were running under
    7.3 and the version you are running under 7.1.

    Assuming both came as *.rpm's from Red Hat, the name of the
    relevant RPM will tell you as the name is in the format...

	${NAME}-${VERSION}-${RELEASE}.${ARCH}.rpm
		^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    ...and the bit you need is the bit I have underlined above. Note
    that if the 7.3 binary RPM doesn't work under 7.1, you can simply
    download the 7.3 source RPM and install that with the...

	rpm -ba ${RPM}

    ...command, assuming you have the relevant build tools installed.

 2. For each program where those versions are different, please see
    if you can install a copy of the same version used under RH 7.3
    on your RH 7.1 based system. If you can, please determine if it
    is stable under 7.1 or if it also fails there.

The very fact that a particular version is stable under 7.1 but causes
lockups under 7.3 is an important indicator that the problem is not in
that particular version, but elsewhere. However, the fact that version
A is stable under 7.1 but version B locks up under 7.3 says nothing of
any use to anybody.

Likewise, being able to say that "Version A of xscreensaver works fine
on my RH 7.3 system but version B causes it to lock up" is also very
useful information, especially when version A is the one supplied with
RH 7.2 and version B is the one supplied with RH 7.3, so if anybody
running RH 7.3 and having problems can try downgrading the problem
programs to the versions supplied with RH 7.2, that will also help.

For those interested, all RPM's supplied with all versions of Red Hat
Linux are available from the Red Hat Linux ftp site for downloading.

Best wishes from Riley.

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