Tar Backups

Tar Backups

[Paul Kraus]

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Is there a way to have an index written? I am making 13gb backups and it
takes forever to simply restore because it has to read each and every
single file on the tape. This is actually on my sco box but the question
is relevant because I plan on moving the file server to a red hat
machine.


Paul Kraus
Network Administrator
PEL Supply Company
216.267.5775 Voice
216-267-6176 Fax
www.pelsupply.com

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Re: Tar Backups

[Ray Olszewski]

At 03:21 PM 9/30/02 -0400, Paul Kraus wrote:
>Is there a way to have an index written? I am making 13gb backups and it
>takes forever to simply restore because it has to read each and every
>single file on the tape. This is actually on my sco box but the question
>is relevant because I plan on moving the file server to a red hat
>machine.

Do you mean that you want to use tar to make a tape backup, and at the same 
time write a separate file that contains a list of all of the files on the 
tape?

If you do mean that ... then just run tar in verbose mode and redirect the 
output to a file. Something like this (though this example saves to a .tar 
file rather than tape):

         tar -cvf somename.tar filespec > index.txt

If you mean something more specific by "index", please describe in more 
detail what you need.


--
-------------------------------------------"Never tell me the odds!"--------
Ray Olszewski					-- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: Tar Backups

[Paul Kraus]

I understand about outputting the contents to file. On my m$ system the
backup software indexes the tape so that when you want to get a file off
of it the software looks at the index for the location on the tape. Fast
forwards to the spot, and then restores the file. With tar it reads
every inch of the tape until it comes to your file. This is anything but
efficient. Any suggestions?

-----Original Message-----
From: Ray Olszewski [mailto:ray@comarre.com] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 3:39 PM
To: Paul Kraus; linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Tar Backups


At 03:21 PM 9/30/02 -0400, Paul Kraus wrote:
>Is there a way to have an index written? I am making 13gb backups and 
>it takes forever to simply restore because it has to read each and 
>every single file on the tape. This is actually on my sco box but the 
>question is relevant because I plan on moving the file server to a red 
>hat machine.

Do you mean that you want to use tar to make a tape backup, and at the
same 
time write a separate file that contains a list of all of the files on
the 
tape?

If you do mean that ... then just run tar in verbose mode and redirect
the 
output to a file. Something like this (though this example saves to a
.tar 
file rather than tape):

         tar -cvf somename.tar filespec > index.txt

If you mean something more specific by "index", please describe in more 
detail what you need.


--
-------------------------------------------"Never tell me the
odds!"--------
Ray Olszewski					-- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------

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Re: Tar Backups

[pa3gcu]

On Monday 30 September 2002 19:39, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> At 03:21 PM 9/30/02 -0400, Paul Kraus wrote:
> >Is there a way to have an index written? I am making 13gb backups and it
> >takes forever to simply restore because it has to read each and every
> >single file on the tape. This is actually on my sco box but the question
> >is relevant because I plan on moving the file server to a red hat
> >machine.
>
> Do you mean that you want to use tar to make a tape backup, and at the same
> time write a separate file that contains a list of all of the files on the
> tape?
>
> If you do mean that ... then just run tar in verbose mode and redirect the
> output to a file. Something like this (though this example saves to a .tar
> file rather than tape):
>
>          tar -cvf somename.tar filespec > index.txt
>
> If you mean something more specific by "index", please describe in more
> detail what you need.

A good suggestion Ray, but what beats me is the "askers" signature,

Quote;

"
Paul Kraus
Network Administrator
PEL Supply Company
216.267.5775 Voice
216-267-6176 Fax
www.pelsupply.com
"
Network Admin ????? and he needs to ask this.!!!!

Several mails a day and if i may say so most of the questions are solvable 
with a simple reading of the manuals.

One would think, if one is a Network Administrator, then he/she would know 
about simple things which are asked here.
Well i suppose someone will do his work for him then, at least he is getting 
paid for the answers he gets here, note, but not from me, i have to earn my 
money.

>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------"Never tell me the
> odds!"-------- Ray Olszewski					-- Han Solo
> Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>----

-- 
Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/

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RE: Tar Backups

[Paul Kraus]

First of all I am not a UNIX or Linux admin. I had two servers dumped on
me and have been struggling for 2 weeks to get some of the more basic
shit down. Which is WHY I AM POSTING ON A NEWBIE LIST!Why the hell are
you attacking someone on a newbie list. I did read the man pages and I
had already read / learned about redirecting the output. If you had read
my next message you would have seen that. I am asking if there was a
work around for a serious limitation of tape backups using the standard
unix/linux tar application. Perhaps you where just trying to impress
people on the list. That's the problem with 99% of news groups/ mailing
lists that have to do with Linux or Unix for that matter. Its like an
elitist club. Ask the wrong question and everyone is on your shit. By
the way no one has yet to solve this simple question that anyone should
have been able to answer by reading the man pages.


PS
You're an ASS pa3gcu.

-----Original Message-----
From: pa3gcu [mailto:pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl] 
Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:13 PM
To: Ray Olszewski; Paul Kraus; linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: Tar Backups


On Monday 30 September 2002 19:39, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> At 03:21 PM 9/30/02 -0400, Paul Kraus wrote:
> >Is there a way to have an index written? I am making 13gb backups and

> >it takes forever to simply restore because it has to read each and 
> >every single file on the tape. This is actually on my sco box but the

> >question is relevant because I plan on moving the file server to a 
> >red hat machine.
>
> Do you mean that you want to use tar to make a tape backup, and at the

> same time write a separate file that contains a list of all of the 
> files on the tape?
>
> If you do mean that ... then just run tar in verbose mode and redirect

> the output to a file. Something like this (though this example saves 
> to a .tar file rather than tape):
>
>          tar -cvf somename.tar filespec > index.txt
>
> If you mean something more specific by "index", please describe in 
> more detail what you need.

A good suggestion Ray, but what beats me is the "askers" signature,

Quote;

"
Paul Kraus
Network Administrator
PEL Supply Company
216.267.5775 Voice
216-267-6176 Fax
www.pelsupply.com
"
Network Admin ????? and he needs to ask this.!!!!

Several mails a day and if i may say so most of the questions are
solvable 
with a simple reading of the manuals.

One would think, if one is a Network Administrator, then he/she would
know 
about simple things which are asked here.
Well i suppose someone will do his work for him then, at least he is
getting 
paid for the answers he gets here, note, but not from me, i have to earn
my 
money.

>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------"Never tell me the
> odds!"-------- Ray Olszewski					-- Han
Solo
> Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
> 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
----
>----

-- 
Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/

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Re: Tar Backups

[pa3gcu]

On Monday 30 September 2002 20:35, Paul Kraus wrote:
> First of all I am not a UNIX or Linux admin. I had two servers dumped on
> me and have been struggling for 2 weeks to get some of the more basic
> shit down. Which is WHY I AM POSTING ON A NEWBIE LIST!Why the hell are
> you attacking someone on a newbie list. I did read the man pages and I
> had already read / learned about redirecting the output. If you had read
> my next message you would have seen that. I am asking if there was a
> work around for a serious limitation of tape backups using the standard
> unix/linux tar application. Perhaps you where just trying to impress
> people on the list. That's the problem with 99% of news groups/ mailing
> lists that have to do with Linux or Unix for that matter. Its like an
> elitist club. Ask the wrong question and everyone is on your shit. By
> the way no one has yet to solve this simple question that anyone should
> have been able to answer by reading the man pages.

I have been here for the duratrion of this list.

Most of the time you ask a question without asking what you really want, Ray 
has asked you before to try and explain what you want in more detail, you are 
getting beter at that, i was not being cheaky and i do not need to impress 
folks here nor do i need to do it on other list's whaere i answer mails.

I did not use strong words in my mail and i did not mention your name, 
Paul, simply slow down and explain your situation more when asking questions, 
and you may want to readjust you sig, for this list at least.

No i am not an ASS, if you want to call me that please do it on some or other 
newsgroup where that is normal practice, that is not how we work here.

Thanks for your mail and have a nice day.

>
> PS
> You're an ASS pa3gcu.

My name is Richard, thanks..

>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pa3gcu [mailto:pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl]
> Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 4:13 PM
> To: Ray Olszewski; Paul Kraus; linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: Re: Tar Backups
>
> On Monday 30 September 2002 19:39, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> > At 03:21 PM 9/30/02 -0400, Paul Kraus wrote:
> > >Is there a way to have an index written? I am making 13gb backups and
> > >
> > >it takes forever to simply restore because it has to read each and
> > >every single file on the tape. This is actually on my sco box but the
> > >
> > >question is relevant because I plan on moving the file server to a
> > >red hat machine.
> >
> > Do you mean that you want to use tar to make a tape backup, and at the
> >
> > same time write a separate file that contains a list of all of the
> > files on the tape?
> >
> > If you do mean that ... then just run tar in verbose mode and redirect
> >
> > the output to a file. Something like this (though this example saves
> > to a .tar file rather than tape):
> >
> >          tar -cvf somename.tar filespec > index.txt
> >
> > If you mean something more specific by "index", please describe in
> > more detail what you need.
>
> A good suggestion Ray, but what beats me is the "askers" signature,
>
> Quote;
>
> "
> Paul Kraus
> Network Administrator
> PEL Supply Company
> 216.267.5775 Voice
> 216-267-6176 Fax
> www.pelsupply.com
> "
> Network Admin ????? and he needs to ask this.!!!!
>
> Several mails a day and if i may say so most of the questions are
> solvable
> with a simple reading of the manuals.
>
> One would think, if one is a Network Administrator, then he/she would
> know
> about simple things which are asked here.
> Well i suppose someone will do his work for him then, at least he is
> getting
> paid for the answers he gets here, note, but not from me, i have to earn
> my
> money.
>
> > --
> > -------------------------------------------"Never tell me the
> > odds!"-------- Ray Olszewski					-- Han
>
> Solo
>
> > Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
> >
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----
>
> >----

-- 
Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/

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RE: Tar Backups

[Jude DaShiell]

What you need in your listing is the tape offset address for the beginning
of each file saved in that tar listing.  I wonder if inodes would serve
for this purpose.  Actually, linux-tape list on majordomo@vger.kernel.org
might have the answer for you.




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Re: Tar Backups

[Paul Furness]

Hmm, you could try a slightly different approach.

Obviously, I don't know the layout of the data that you are backing up,
but assuming that it's in a number of distinct areas you could use
something like dump or tar a number of times, thereby breaking your 13GB
into a number of smaller files. This means you can fast-forward to the
sub-section you want and only have to read through a smallish amount of
data.

For example, if you were backing up the users' home directories, you
would have something like this:

-home
  |
  + paulk
  |   |
  |   +various directories
  |
  + paulf
  |   |
  |   +various directories
  |
  and other stuff...

You could write a simple script that backs up everything under 'paulk'
and then in a separate file backs up everything under 'paulf' without
rewinding the tape in between (you do this by specifying the tape device
to use with tar; /dev/stX are scsi tape devices, but /dev/nstX are
_non-rewinding_ tape devices).

Then, when you later want to restore a file from under 'paulf', you can
wind the tape forward by the number of files you need to before starting
to read the data.


Granted that this is a little more complex to set up than what you are
currently using, but in the long run it could save you a lot of time.


More simply, of course, it's pretty cheap to buy another hard disk and
back up to that as well as the tape. Then, you keep the tape in the
cupboard / drawer / safe, and you can use the disk for getting back
single files quickly. It doesn't matter if the disk is over-written
every couple of days, since you have the tapes for longer term backup.

Of course, if the data is _really_ important data, and you often have to
restore parts of it, you might want to look at something else - either a
specific backup package (possibly even a commercial one) or, 

If you want to talk about this in more depth, mail me direct.

Paul F.



On Mon, 2002-09-30 at 20:21, Paul Kraus wrote:
> Is there a way to have an index written? I am making 13gb backups and it
> takes forever to simply restore because it has to read each and every
> single file on the tape. This is actually on my sco box but the question
> is relevant because I plan on moving the file server to a red hat
> machine.
> 
> 
> Paul Kraus
> Network Administrator
> PEL Supply Company
> 216.267.5775 Voice
> 216-267-6176 Fax
> www.pelsupply.com
-- 
Paul Furness

Systems Manager

2+2=5 for extremely large values of 2.

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Re: Tar Backups

[James Mohr]

On Monday 30 September 2002 22:12, pa3gcu wrote:
<snip>
> Network Admin ????? and he needs to ask this.!!!!
>
> Several mails a day and if i may say so most of the questions are solvable
> with a simple reading of the manuals.
>
> One would think, if one is a Network Administrator, then he/she would know
> about simple things which are asked here.
> Well i suppose someone will do his work for him then, at least he is
> getting paid for the answers he gets here, note, but not from me, i have to
> earn my money.

Woah!  Hold on a minute there! Just because a person is a "Network Admin" does 
not mean they are Unix **system** admins. Further, there are other operating 
systems in the world other than *nix. Even if all they used was NT/2000, the 
person who administered that network would still be a "Network 
Administrator", having never seen a *nix system. 

Yes, one **might** say that Paul doesn't ask the right questions. However, 
being a ***newbie*** to *nix he apparently does not have the familiarity with 
the terminology that others do. That gives none of us the right to insult 
him.

You definately owe him an apology.

Regards,

jimmo

-- 
---------------------------------------
"Be more concerned with your character than with your reputation. Your
character is what you really are while your reputation is merely what others
think you are." -- John Wooden
---------------------------------------
Be sure to visit the Linux Tutorial:  http://www.linux-tutorial.info
---------------------------------------
NOTE: All messages sent to me in response to my posts to newsgroups or forums 
are subject to reposting.
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Re: Tar Backups

[James Hatridge]

Hi Paul et al...
On Monday 30 September 2002 21:21, Paul Kraus wrote:
> Is there a way to have an index written? I am making 13gb backups and it
> takes forever to simply restore because it has to read each and every
> single file on the tape. This is actually on my sco box but the question
> is relevant because I plan on moving the file server to a red hat
> machine.

I just wrote an article about how to backup with tar. It includes how to make 
an index for your tape. 

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6270

If you need any more help email me off list. 

Hope this helps...


JIM

-- 
Jim Hatridge
Linux User #88484
------------------------------------------------------
                 BayerWulf
	   Linux System # 129656
         The Recycled Beowulf Project
  Looking for throw-away or obsolete computers and parts
   to recycle into a Linux super computer

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