Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Calin Szonyi]

----- Original Message -----
From: Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@shellworld.net>
Date: 	Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:26:27 -0400 (EDT)
To: Paul Kraus <pkraus@pelsupply.com>
Subject: Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.


> Last year I read about a version of visualbasic available to run on linux
> and think it was put under the gnu gpl license.  

Anybody wants to port Nimda and Sircam to linux ?
:-)))

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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Heimo Claasen]

Hmm, yeah - precisely:
> Well surely this is the same for any other programming language in Linux?
> (By the way, that annoying paternalistic approach is found on Windoze
> networks too....

The more I get used to (which doesn't say befriended with) that Linux
box the more I tend to appreciate the principle of the (real) Java
approach to keep all that net intrusion in the sandbox.  And the more I
love this ol' DOS box which is to me, me!  ME!!!  alone, and not to a
SysAdmin who I'm not.

Thanks for the "Quackbasic", btw. (Used to call it QuirkB. hitherto.)

// Heimo Claasen // <hammer at revobild dot net> // Brussels 2002-10-18
The WebPlace of ReRead - and much to read  ==>  http://www.revobild.net

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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[cr]

On Thursday 01 January 1970 12:00, Heimo Claasen wrote:
> Hmm, yeah - precisely:
> > Well surely this is the same for any other programming language in Linux?
> > (By the way, that annoying paternalistic approach is found on Windoze
> > networks too....
>
> The more I get used to (which doesn't say befriended with) that Linux
> box the more I tend to appreciate the principle of the (real) Java
> approach to keep all that net intrusion in the sandbox.  And the more I
> love this ol' DOS box which is to me, me!  ME!!!  alone, and not to a
> SysAdmin who I'm not.

Well, I used to use DOS/Win 3.1, and it's very simple (far simpler than 
Win95, for example).    But Internet use just got to be too much of a hassle 
with DOS's 8.3 filenames....   

So I went shopping for an operating system, I wasn't going to *pay* for 
Win95  :)        I considered OS/2 but that looked like it was dying so that 
left Linux.    I think I made the right choice.   

> Thanks for the "Quackbasic", btw. (Used to call it QuirkB. hitherto.)

Be my guest.   I was developing a large program, well, 100KB, that handled a 
1.5MB database, and QB's memory limitations got really really annoying.   It 
was a steep learning curve converting everything to Xbasic, but it's just so 
darn good never to have to even think about the possibility of 'out of 
memory' errors any more....   

cr
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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Heimo Claasen]

As Ray Olszewski <ray@comarre.com> wrote:
> There ae some implementations of BASIC for Linux, but I know of no working
> VB implementation. If you do, a reference to a URL would be helpful.

Yes, there is a quite advanced Basic version (XBasic) but it suffers
from a basic *nix (and thus Linux) structural property: just the best
qualities of Basic - to control input and output on a rather low,
hardware-near level - cannot be implemented because of this. Which is a
real PITA as Basic is a great language when it comes to all sorts of
string/text handling and screen/printer/comport output of such.

Which in turn is a direct consequence of the paranoid "security"
approach - "Oh My God Don't Let a 'user' Ever Get Near the Real Stuff
(there has to be a SysAdmin for this who KNOWS about the tricks and
will never tell and allow)". In fact, rather paternalistic. Which
irritates me.

// Heimo Claasen // <hammer at revobild dot net> // Brussels 2002-10-17
The WebPlace of ReRead - and much to read  ==>  http://www.revobild.net

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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[cr]

On Thursday 01 January 1970 12:00, Heimo Claasen wrote:
> As Ray Olszewski <ray@comarre.com> wrote:
> > There ae some implementations of BASIC for Linux, but I know of no
> > working VB implementation. If you do, a reference to a URL would be
> > helpful.
>
> Yes, there is a quite advanced Basic version (XBasic) but it suffers
> from a basic *nix (and thus Linux) structural property: just the best
> qualities of Basic - to control input and output on a rather low,
> hardware-near level - cannot be implemented because of this. Which is a
> real PITA as Basic is a great language when it comes to all sorts of
> string/text handling and screen/printer/comport output of such.
>
> Which in turn is a direct consequence of the paranoid "security"
> approach - "Oh My God Don't Let a 'user' Ever Get Near the Real Stuff
> (there has to be a SysAdmin for this who KNOWS about the tricks and
> will never tell and allow)". In fact, rather paternalistic. Which
> irritates me.

Well surely this is the same for any other programming language in Linux?
(By the way, that annoying paternalistic approach is found on Windoze 
networks too....     and if the 'security' approach is part of the reason my 
Linuxbox isn't riddled with viruses like Winboxes, I'll tolerate it).

I've found keyboard input / screen output in Xbasic slightly more complicated 
than with Quickbasic, but I put that down to the fact that XBasic is 
GUI-based, I found that same thing with the only other GUI language I've 
used, BBC Basic 5 on the Archimedes.   As soon as you introduce WIMP/GUI, 
everything gets more complicated.   :(

So far as file handling (reading / writing) goes, Xbasic is as easy as any 
variety of Basic I've used, and it does *not* constantly run out of memory 
like Quackbasic...

cr
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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Jude DaShiell]

Do any good versions of basic exist for linux that can compile on
slackware 8.0 but are text interface versions exist?



On 18 Oct 2002, Heimo Claasen wrote:

> As Ray Olszewski <ray@comarre.com> wrote:
> > There ae some implementations of BASIC for Linux, but I know of no working
> > VB implementation. If you do, a reference to a URL would be helpful.
>
> Yes, there is a quite advanced Basic version (XBasic) but it suffers
> from a basic *nix (and thus Linux) structural property: just the best
> qualities of Basic - to control input and output on a rather low,
> hardware-near level - cannot be implemented because of this. Which is a
> real PITA as Basic is a great language when it comes to all sorts of
> string/text handling and screen/printer/comport output of such.
>
> Which in turn is a direct consequence of the paranoid "security"
> approach - "Oh My God Don't Let a 'user' Ever Get Near the Real Stuff
> (there has to be a SysAdmin for this who KNOWS about the tricks and
> will never tell and allow)". In fact, rather paternalistic. Which
> irritates me.
>
> // Heimo Claasen // <hammer at revobild dot net> // Brussels 2002-10-17
> The WebPlace of ReRead - and much to read  ==>  http://www.revobild.net
>
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
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RE: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Ray Olszewski]

At 04:30 AM 10/16/02 -0500, Tucker, Ernie wrote:

>What about this one?
>  <http://www.janus-software.com/>http://www.janus-software.com/

Hard to say without trying it. Clearly it is a BASIC with a GUI component, 
and clearly it has a *superficial* resemblance to VB. Whether it 
constitutes "a version of visualbasic" depends on how closely it follows 
the VB API, and I can't tell that just from reading the Web pages ... 
although the phrase "Very short learning curve for VB developers" on the 
introductory page is to my eye a warning of subtle incompatibilities with 
VB, not a "feature".

Also, the Janus product is not GPL'd or under any other Open Source license 
(though the binary itself is freeware), so it is *probably* not what the 
original poster was referring to.


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Ray Olszewski
>To: linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org
>Sent: 10/15/2002 11:46 PM
>Subject: Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.
>
>At 12:26 AM 10/16/02 -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> >Last year I read about a version of visualbasic available to run on
>linux
> >and think it was put under the gnu gpl license.
[rest deleted]



--
-------------------------------------------"Never tell me the odds!"--------
Ray Olszewski					-- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
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A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Paul Kraus]

Well what started out as a cost effective experiment has turned into an
obsession. Linux seems to do everything that I want but it does it
better.... Well that's not fair not better but it allows more control
and the reliability is perfect. There are only two things that have me
not wanting to get rid of my xp pro workstation(unix and Linux are
already our dominant servers.)

1. Microsoft .NET framework. I know Microsoft is a bad word in most of
these forums/lists but it is a great web development package. Allowing
for true object oriented programming. I am also already familiar with
it. Will the framework run on a Linux machine. I know that it is
supposed to be cross-platform combatable. Also would I then need to
redesign my pages as c# instead of vb.net? If I can keep vb.net that
would be great seeing as I know the language well. But if I had to learn
c# instead then I am ok with that. What editors can I use. Does anything
compare to Visual Studio.net(I know I said I would't use windows
programs as references but I am at a loss and to describe the software
would be a vary large email).

2. This is the big one and it is a problem that you think should not be
a problem. Our main software package (thoroughbred solution 4 in case
you have heard of it) runs on a UNIX server. However when telnetting
into the server nothing works the way it is supposed to from a Linux
workstation. Key maps are wrong. I have in the past played with Linux
and this has always been the reason that I went back. I am using tiny
term by century for my connections now on the windows workstations. They
also sell a product for UNIX but I am wanting to maintain the idea of
using all free software.

Now just for some opinions from people on the list.
What are the difference in bistro's? Why is one preferred over another.
Is one a better server product and one a better desktop? If so why?

Paul Kraus
Network Administrator
PEL Supply Company
216.267.5775 Voice
216-267-6176 Fax
www.pelsupply.com

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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[James Miller]

On 15 Oct 2002, Paul Kraus wrote:

> I know that it is supposed to be cross-platform combatable. 

This sentence belongs in the M$ vs Linux freudian slips hall of fame.
(Paul's spelling sensibilities turned the word "compatible" 
[complementary, harmonious] into "combatable" [well-suited for combat?]).

James

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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Jude DaShiell]

Last year I read about a version of visualbasic available to run on linux
and think it was put under the gnu gpl license.  Thing is, I don't know if
it runs only in the gui environment or can run in the text environment.
If it runs in the text environment, the government could provide blind
programmers with talking linux boxes and that visualbasic application then
they'd be able to do development without the problems inherent with
running windows for the blind and running vb6.




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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[cr]

On Wednesday 16 October 2002 17:26, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> Last year I read about a version of visualbasic available to run on linux
> and think it was put under the gnu gpl license.  Thing is, I don't know if
> it runs only in the gui environment or can run in the text environment.
> If it runs in the text environment, the government could provide blind
> programmers with talking linux boxes and that visualbasic application then
> they'd be able to do development without the problems inherent with
> running windows for the blind and running vb6.
>

I don't know about a Linux Visual Basic.    There is a language called 
Xbasic, it's freeware, GNU  GPL, maybe that's the one you've heard of.   It 
runs only under the GUI but it will run under Win95 _and_ Linux.    The 
source code is interchangeable between the two, the compiled version has to 
be compiled under the OS it's going to be run on.   (So I'm developing a 
large custom stocktaking/database program for a friend on my Linuxbox here 
*and* on the Win95 box at work....  I just cart it back and forth on a floppy 
disk).    It has an active mailing list at xbasic@yahoogroups.com, and can be 
downloaded from a number of mirror sites - umm, try looking in Google, I've 
lost the list  :)

I don't know if it would be any better than VB for blind programmers though.  

cr
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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Jude DaShiell]

The xbasic wouldn't help at all.  The linux gui interface has a long way
to go to get accessible to the point where blind users can use it with
screen readers.  Even so, I don't ever expect I'll ever use the GUI under
linux since I installed linux to specifically use its text interface.
Too much windows at work being a work requirement for me and too many
problems with that operating system at work and for awhile at home until
the penguin ate Bill Gates and the mouse.



On Thu, 17 Oct 2002, cr wrote:

> On Wednesday 16 October 2002 17:26, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > Last year I read about a version of visualbasic available to run on linux
> > and think it was put under the gnu gpl license.  Thing is, I don't know if
> > it runs only in the gui environment or can run in the text environment.
> > If it runs in the text environment, the government could provide blind
> > programmers with talking linux boxes and that visualbasic application then
> > they'd be able to do development without the problems inherent with
> > running windows for the blind and running vb6.
> >
>
> I don't know about a Linux Visual Basic.    There is a language called
> Xbasic, it's freeware, GNU  GPL, maybe that's the one you've heard of.   It
> runs only under the GUI but it will run under Win95 _and_ Linux.    The
> source code is interchangeable between the two, the compiled version has to
> be compiled under the OS it's going to be run on.   (So I'm developing a
> large custom stocktaking/database program for a friend on my Linuxbox here
> *and* on the Win95 box at work....  I just cart it back and forth on a floppy
> disk).    It has an active mailing list at xbasic@yahoogroups.com, and can be
> downloaded from a number of mirror sites - umm, try looking in Google, I've
> lost the list  :)
>
> I don't know if it would be any better than VB for blind programmers though.
>
> cr
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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[cr]

I actually rather doubt whether a GUI-based basic would ever be useable for 
blind users.   Far too complex and the multiple windows are unnecessarily 
confusing, I would have thought.    A single-tasking linear type of language 
would, I imagine, be far preferable.  

cr


On Sunday 20 October 2002 15:40, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> The xbasic wouldn't help at all.  The linux gui interface has a long way
> to go to get accessible to the point where blind users can use it with
> screen readers.  Even so, I don't ever expect I'll ever use the GUI under
> linux since I installed linux to specifically use its text interface.
> Too much windows at work being a work requirement for me and too many
> problems with that operating system at work and for awhile at home until
> the penguin ate Bill Gates and the mouse.
>
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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Hal MacArgle]

Greetings: Excuse if this is redundant - but has anyone mentioned
running any of the DOS versions of BASIC using 'DOSEMU???

Some of the BASIC compilers, if needed, may be a problem but
otherwise should be AOK...


    Hal - in Terra Alta, WV - Slackware GNU/Linux 8.0   (2.4.13)
	       haltec@iceweb.net | w8mch@iceweb.net.
		    NON ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM

On 10-19, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> The xbasic wouldn't help at all.  The linux gui interface has a long way
> to go to get accessible to the point where blind users can use it with
> screen readers.  Even so, I don't ever expect I'll ever use the GUI under
> linux since I installed linux to specifically use its text interface.
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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Jude DaShiell]

Many of those dos basic interpreters and compilers don't do their screen
writes in a civilized fashion.  direct screen writing software can't be
used by dos-emu.  Also, direct screen writing software can't be used by
any but the most expensive and up-to-date screen readers.



On Sun, 20 Oct 2002, Hal MacArgle wrote:

> Greetings: Excuse if this is redundant - but has anyone mentioned
> running any of the DOS versions of BASIC using 'DOSEMU???
>
> Some of the BASIC compilers, if needed, may be a problem but
> otherwise should be AOK...
>
>
>     Hal - in Terra Alta, WV - Slackware GNU/Linux 8.0   (2.4.13)
> 	       haltec@iceweb.net | w8mch@iceweb.net.
> 		    NON ILLEGITIMI CARBORUNDUM
>
> On 10-19, Jude DaShiell wrote:
> > The xbasic wouldn't help at all.  The linux gui interface has a long way
> > to go to get accessible to the point where blind users can use it with
> > screen readers.  Even so, I don't ever expect I'll ever use the GUI under
> > linux since I installed linux to specifically use its text interface.
> -
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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Ray Olszewski]

At 12:26 AM 10/16/02 -0400, Jude DaShiell wrote:
>Last year I read about a version of visualbasic available to run on linux
>and think it was put under the gnu gpl license.  Thing is, I don't know if
>it runs only in the gui environment or can run in the text environment.
>If it runs in the text environment, the government could provide blind
>programmers with talking linux boxes and that visualbasic application then
>they'd be able to do development without the problems inherent with
>running windows for the blind and running vb6.

If it is the one I know of, "available" is a bit of an overstatement.

The Visual Basic for Linux project at Sourceforge (URL 
http://sourceforge.net/projects/vb4linux/) was registered in October 2000, 
has not released any files, has nothing in cvs, is listed as being in the 
"planning" stage, and last updated its News page in November 2000.

There are a lot of Open Source projects that end up as nothing more than a 
URL with a name and a vague concept; this appears to be one of them.

There ae some implementations of BASIC for Linux, but I know of no working 
VB implementation. If you do, a reference to a URL would be helpful.


--
-------------------------------------------"Never tell me the odds!"--------
Ray Olszewski					-- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: A few more things and I can kiss windows good bye.

[Steven Smith]

[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 911 bytes --]

> 1. Microsoft .NET framework. I know Microsoft is a bad word in most of
> these forums/lists but it is a great web development package. Allowing
> for true object oriented programming. I am also already familiar with
> it. Will the framework run on a Linux machine.
The Microsoft one doesn't, as far as I know, and it seems unlikely that
it ever will.  There is a FreeBSD version, though.  Look for Rotor, of
you're interested.

Having said that, Mono.NET have a C# compiler, JIT, and most of a class
framework available from www.go-mono.com.  There's also an early-stage
vb.net interpreter, but I haven't tried it.

DotGNU were also aiming towards a C# implementation.  The last time I
checked, they were a long way behind Mono, however.

> What editors can I use.
Emacs works, as does vi.  If you want a friendlier interface, jEdit,
kDevelop, and CoolEdit are fairly popular.

Steven Smith,
sos22@cam.ac.uk.

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