Re: switching window managers

Re: switching window managers

[Haines Brown]

Simon,

> Hi, I think redhat has the "switchdesk" utility, you can choose whether
> it is for current session or permanent change.
> 
> Give it a whirl.

Thanks. RH8.0 indeed does have a destop switching tool, but it seems
to conflate desktop environments (gnome vs kde) and window managers
(WindowMaker vs. twm). This left me feeling uncomfortable. 

Since I'm planning a migration from RedHat to gentoo or debian, I
don't want to become reliant on gui utilities any more than I have
to. If I were to reconfigure the desktop switcher to recognize icewm,
I suspect it would be easier to modify a rc file to call icewm in
the first place. 

Haines
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Re: switching window managers

[Amin]

On Wed, Mar 19, 2003 at 10:58:57AM -0500, Haines Brown
wrote:

> don't want to become reliant on gui utilities any more
> than I have

``switchdesk'' also works in text-only mode, I believe.
True, though, that it does not show you any choices in that
mode, so you have to supply your desktop environment/window
manager as the argument.

> I suspect it would be easier to modify a rc file to call
> icewm in the first place. 

I use a bash script called ``ice'', which contains:

#!/bin/bash
startx /usr/bin/icewm -- :0

Take a look at Steve Litt's ``Linux Productivity Magazine''
issue about IceWM at
http://www.troubleshooters.com/lpm/200209/200209.htm.  It's
what convinced me to switch to IceWM.

HTH,
Yawar Amin
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Re: switching window managers

[Marco Calistri]

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Hash: SHA1


On 19-Mar-2003 Haines Brown wrote:
> Simon,
> 
>> Hi, I think redhat has the "switchdesk" utility, you can choose whether
>> it is for current session or permanent change.
>> 
>> Give it a whirl.
> 
> Thanks. RH8.0 indeed does have a destop switching tool, but it seems
> to conflate desktop environments (gnome vs kde) and window managers
> (WindowMaker vs. twm). This left me feeling uncomfortable. 
> 
> Since I'm planning a migration from RedHat to gentoo or debian, I
> don't want to become reliant on gui utilities any more than I have
> to. If I were to reconfigure the desktop switcher to recognize icewm,
> I suspect it would be easier to modify a rc file to call icewm in
> the first place. 
> 
> Haines

Hello Haines,Im using IceWm as well from very few days and I simply run:

xinit /usr/local/bin/icewm --:0 

from terminal when I'am here on my RHL-7.3 box,or even run:

icewm

which contains

#!/bin/sh
startx /usr/local/bin/icewm --:0
exit 0

from my job companion Compaq E500 running RHL8.0

By the way suggested documentation contains a lot of stuff for a more deep
customization of IceWM.

Best Regards

Marco


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Re: switching window managers

[Haines Brown]

> Hello Haines,Im using IceWm as well from very few days and I simply run:
> 
> xinit /usr/local/bin/icewm --:0 
> 
> from terminal when I'am here on my RHL-7.3 box,or even run:

Thanks Marco, but I managed to get myself into trouble. When runing
IceWM, I was using its panel at the same time as gnome's desktop
switcher. They seemed to get along, but unfortunately, they had
conflicing keybindings, and as soon as I typed a key that had
conflicting purposes, X crashed.

I got X working and am now back in gnome to start again. However, I
seem to have damaged gnome desktop switcher because panel crashes as
it is loaded. I need to configure gnome not to run the desktop switcher,
but don't know how to do it.

Do you happen to know the name of the gnome desktop switcher
executable and its configuration file? Do you know which panel file
calls the desktop switcher? I'm caught in a gnome panel crash loop,
and so was forced to use another account (root has same trouble as
regular user) in order to use X apps.  

Haines Brown 
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Re: switching window managers

[Amin]

On Sat, Mar 22, 2003 at 11:53:37PM -0500, Haines Brown
wrote:

> Do you happen to know the name of the gnome desktop
> switcher executable and its configuration file? Do you
> know which panel file calls the desktop switcher? I'm
> caught in a gnome panel crash loop,

Try reinstalling the ``gnome-panel'' RPM, or if that doesn't
work, uninstalling and then reinstalling it.  This RPM
manages the Panel's basic stuff, including the desktop
switcher.

You'll need (to specify the location of the) the RPM file,
of course.

HTH,
Yawar Amin
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Re: switching window managers

[Haines Brown]

> Try reinstalling the ``gnome-panel'' RPM, or if that doesn't
> work, uninstalling and then reinstalling it.  This RPM
> manages the Panel's basic stuff, including the desktop
> switcher.
> 
> You'll need (to specify the location of the) the RPM file,
> of course.

I tried that, but there was a large number of dependencies that would
require me to uninstall a range of applications, and I've little hope
that I could get things working again.  

It would be a lot cleaner just to uninstall the desktop
switcher/pager. But I need the name of its executable. I've asked
around, and no one seems to know. Is it an application, an applet, or
integrated into gnome2? What is the gnome-panel configuration file
that specifies whether the pager gets loaded? 

Haines Brown
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Re: switching window managers

[Marco Calistri]

On 23-Mar-2003 Haines Brown wrote:
>> Hello Haines,Im using IceWm as well from very few days and I simply run:
>> 
>> xinit /usr/local/bin/icewm --:0 
>> 
>> from terminal when I'am here on my RHL-7.3 box,or even run:
> 
> Thanks Marco, but I managed to get myself into trouble. When runing
> IceWM, I was using its panel at the same time as gnome's desktop
> switcher. They seemed to get along, but unfortunately, they had
> conflicing keybindings, and as soon as I typed a key that had
> conflicting purposes, X crashed.
> 
> I got X working and am now back in gnome to start again. However, I
> seem to have damaged gnome desktop switcher because panel crashes as
> it is loaded. I need to configure gnome not to run the desktop switcher,
> but don't know how to do it.

Hello Haines,AFAIK if you remove your ~/.gnome* dirs. then you will be able to
restart a fresh gnome desktop...

> Do you happen to know the name of the gnome desktop switcher
> executable and its configuration file? Do you know which panel file
> calls the desktop switcher? I'm caught in a gnome panel crash loop,
> and so was forced to use another account (root has same trouble as
> regular user) in order to use X apps.  

switchdesk-gnome-3.9.8-2

[marco@linux marco]$ rpm -qil gnome-switchdesk
package gnome-switchdesk is not installed
[marco@linux marco]$ rpm -qil switchdesk-gnome
Name        : switchdesk-gnome             Relocations: /usr 
Version     : 3.9.8                             Vendor: Red Hat, Inc.
Release     : 2                             Build Date: mar 16 apr 2002
21:22:48 CEST
Install date: dom 22 dic 2002 15:45:52 CET      Build Host:
stripples.devel.redhat.com
Group       : User Interface/Desktops       Source RPM:
switchdesk-3.9.8-2.src.rpm
Size        : 17327                            License: GPL
Packager    : Red Hat, Inc. <http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla>
Summary     : A GNOME interface for the Desktop Switcher.
Description :
The switchdesk-gnome package provides a GNOME look and feel for the
Desktop Switcher program provided in the switchdesk package.
/usr/bin/switchdesk-gnome

Furthermore an useful hint from an old message:

"Slough, Kelle" <Kelle.Slough@dsionline.com> writes: 
> Unfortunately though, I cannot get the panel back.  Does anyone have any
> ideas on how I can restore the panel?  As an FYI, I did install the latest
> fixes afterwards and that has not corrected the problem.

Just run the panel in a terminal (type "panel") and then type
"save-session" after the panel starts.

Havoc


> Haines Brown 

Good Luck!

Marco

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Re: switching window managers

[Haines Brown]

Marco,

Thanks! You've no idea how I've struggled to get this information.

> Hello Haines,AFAIK if you remove your ~/.gnome* dirs. then you will be able to
> restart a fresh gnome desktop...

I presume that since gnome is set as my desktop manager, these files
would be regenerated without my having to restart gnome explicitly. 

> > Do you happen to know the name of the gnome desktop switcher
> > executable...
> 
> switchdesk-gnome-3.9.8-2

The terminology leaves my head spinning. There's the RedHat desktop
switcher application, which is what you refer to. But then there's a
Workplace Switcher, which  is a pager. This is what is broken and what
I meant. I apologize.

> Furthermore an useful hint from an old message:
> 
> "Slough, Kelle" <Kelle.Slough@dsionline.com> writes: 
> > Unfortunately though, I cannot get the panel back.  Does anyone have any
> > ideas on how I can restore the panel?  As an FYI, I did install the latest
> > fixes afterwards and that has not corrected the problem.
> 
> Just run the panel in a terminal (type "panel") and then type
> "save-session" after the panel starts.
> 
> Havoc

I assume that "havoc" is the person's name, not what happens if you
follow the advice ;-).

Haines
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Re: switching window managers

[Haines Brown]

> > Hello Haines,AFAIK if you remove your ~/.gnome* dirs. then you
> > will be able to restart a fresh gnome desktop...
> 
> I presume that since gnome is set as my desktop manager, these files
> would be regenerated without my having to restart gnome explicitly.

You are right that the ~/.gnome* files are regenerated, but this did
not fix the problem, which evidently lies at a deeper level (even
though not all users are affected). Even after removing the ~/.gnome*
files, when I startx gnome-panel starts to load, but crashes, probably
when it tries to load the window switcher. 

The man gnome-panel says:

> The Panel was designed to be highly configurable. You can easily
> customize its behavior and appearance and add or remove objects to
> suite your personal needs and preferences.

But it says nothing more than this. It apparently assumes you will
configure gnome-panel with the mouse rather than edit its files. But
when a problem comes up such as mine, the panel loop means I can't get
a workable desktop, and so I have no mouse to configure panels to
stop (remove from panel) the workplace switcher. Since there's a mouse
option to remove the workplace switcher from the panel, there's got to
be a command to do it, but how is one supposed to find out what it is? 

There must be more information on gnome-panel somewhere that goes
beyond simple panel configuration with the mouse. Until I come across
it, I can't find out whether the workplace switcher is a separate
executable, where it is, or if it has a configuration file.
 
Haine
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Re: switching window managers

[Marco Calistri]

On 24-Mar-2003 Haines Brown wrote:
>> > Hello Haines,AFAIK if you remove your ~/.gnome* dirs. then you
>> > will be able to restart a fresh gnome desktop...
>> 
>> I presume that since gnome is set as my desktop manager, these files
>> would be regenerated without my having to restart gnome explicitly.
> 
> You are right that the ~/.gnome* files are regenerated, but this did
> not fix the problem, which evidently lies at a deeper level (even
> though not all users are affected). Even after removing the ~/.gnome*
> files, when I startx gnome-panel starts to load, but crashes, probably
> when it tries to load the window switcher. 
> 
> The man gnome-panel says:
> 
>> The Panel was designed to be highly configurable. You can easily
>> customize its behavior and appearance and add or remove objects to
>> suite your personal needs and preferences.
> 
> But it says nothing more than this. It apparently assumes you will
> configure gnome-panel with the mouse rather than edit its files. But
> when a problem comes up such as mine, the panel loop means I can't get
> a workable desktop, and so I have no mouse to configure panels to
> stop (remove from panel) the workplace switcher. Since there's a mouse
> option to remove the workplace switcher from the panel, there's got to
> be a command to do it, but how is one supposed to find out what it is? 
> 
> There must be more information on gnome-panel somewhere that goes
> beyond simple panel configuration with the mouse. Until I come across
> it, I can't find out whether the workplace switcher is a separate
> executable, where it is, or if it has a configuration file.
>  
> Haine

As I told you on my previous email,I'm not so familiar with RHL-8.0,I know they
use a different D.M. that is not exactly the same old GNOME as it was on
RHL-7.3.

I suggest to ask on psyche-list@redhat.com mailing list,but since you
reported that spare user is able to use the Desktop,I believe that your is not
a serious problem.

Good Luck!

Marco

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Re: switching window managers

[Marco Calistri]

On 24-Mar-2003 Haines Brown wrote:
> Marco,
> 
> Thanks! You've no idea how I've struggled to get this information.
> 
>> Hello Haines,AFAIK if you remove your ~/.gnome* dirs. then you will be able
>> to
>> restart a fresh gnome desktop...
> 
> I presume that since gnome is set as my desktop manager, these files
> would be regenerated without my having to restart gnome explicitly. 
 
Hello Haines,I suggest you login on init 3 (text) then remove the above
dirs,then you issue startx to re-create the folders.

>> > Do you happen to know the name of the gnome desktop switcher
>> > executable...
>> 
>> switchdesk-gnome-3.9.8-2
> 
> The terminology leaves my head spinning. There's the RedHat desktop
> switcher application, which is what you refer to. But then there's a
> Workplace Switcher, which  is a pager. This is what is broken and what
> I meant. I apologize.

By the way I won't bear you on wrong directions since I'm talking with my
RHL-7.3 experience,not about my RHL-8.0 which I used very seldom.

>> Furthermore an useful hint from an old message:
>> 
>> "Slough, Kelle" <Kelle.Slough@dsionline.com> writes: 
>> > Unfortunately though, I cannot get the panel back.  Does anyone have any
>> > ideas on how I can restore the panel?  As an FYI, I did install the latest
>> > fixes afterwards and that has not corrected the problem.
>> 
>> Just run the panel in a terminal (type "panel") and then type
>> "save-session" after the panel starts.
>> 
>> Havoc
> 
> I assume that "havoc" is the person's name, not what happens if you
> follow the advice ;-).
> 
> Haines

Yes he is Havoc Pennington an "X" desktop developer.

Best Regards

Marco

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Re: switching window managers

[Heimo Claasen]

That's it indeed, Yawar Amin:

> startx [/usr/bin/]<wm_name> -- :0
                             ^^^^^^^
It doesn't even need a specific file with yet another command name.
But please explain the syntax.

Attempts without the arguments underlined would not open X -
complaining about missing "display:", or would at best load only the
window manager[s] explicitly defined for/in the X setup and not any
other one which might be present and eligible in the "system".

And if bash (batch) syntax would be a bit easier to learn, it could be
feasible to set up a small script to choose between window managers.

// Heimo Claasen // <hammer at revobild dot net> // Brussels 2003-03-20
The WebPlace of ReRead - and much to read  ==>  http://www.revobild.net

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Re: switching window managers

[Amin]

On Fri, Mar 21, 2003 at 07:36:11AM +0000, Heimo Claasen wrote:

> And if bash (batch) syntax would be a bit easier to learn,
> it could be feasible to set up a small script to choose
> between window managers.

Actually, I have only a vague idea of how it works, but it
works.  And that's enough for me.  However, you might try
emailing Steve Litt, of the ``Linux Productivity Magazine'';
I'm sure he'll be very helpful.  I got the script from his
magazine.

Yawar Amin
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switching window managers

[Haines Brown]

I'm running RH8.0 and seek a way of switching window managers without
changing the existing default. I could write ~/.xinitrc and with a
line represting the name of my intended wm, but prefer switching from
command prompt.

I installed a window manager and verified that it's in the path of
both root and user.

My older directions suggested that I pass the name of the wm executable
to the xstart command. I tried this, but xstart does not recognize the
option, and I don't see any option that accepts a window manager as
its value. 

So I tried running xinit the same way, but that was not the way to go,
either.

I'm running RH8.0 and seek a way of switching window managers without
changing the existing default.

Haines Brown
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