Linux Help

Linux Help

[Kev]

Hi,

I'm new to Linux, so i'm paling to install a gateway, with the following,

1. Firewall
2. DNS
3. DHCP
4. SMTP (relay only)
5. Email Virus Scaning
6. Gray Listing (email)
7. NAT
8 Web Cashing
9. Web Based Configuration tool for all above.

can any one tell me the best Linux version to use, (RedHat, Debian, etc)
and the software i can use, like DNS = BIND, some thing simple to use...

the Box will be a P2 with 256MB ram but if i can get it to work on a P1
166Mhz that would be great....

thanks
Kev
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Re: Linux Help

[James Miller]

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004, Kev wrote:

> I'm new to Linux, so i'm paling to install a gateway, with the following,
>
> 1. Firewall
> 2. DNS
> 3. DHCP
> 4. SMTP (relay only)
> 5. Email Virus Scaning
> 6. Gray Listing (email)
> 7. NAT
> 8 Web Cashing
> 9. Web Based Configuration tool for all above.
>
> can any one tell me the best Linux version to use, (RedHat, Debian, etc)
> and the software i can use, like DNS = BIND, some thing simple to use...
>
> the Box will be a P2 with 256MB ram but if i can get it to work on a P1
> 166Mhz that would be great....

You might take a look at Freesco, which could easily run on your P1.

James
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Re: Linux Help

[Ray Olszewski]

Responses interspersed below.

At 11:09 PM 7/19/2004 +0600, Kev wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I'm new to Linux, so i'm paling to install a gateway, with the following,
>
>1. Firewall
>2. DNS
>3. DHCP
>4. SMTP (relay only)
>5. Email Virus Scaning
>6. Gray Listing (email)
>7. NAT
>8 Web Cashing
>9. Web Based Configuration tool for all above.
>
>can any one tell me the best Linux version to use, (RedHat, Debian, etc)

No. Or, put another way, everyone can tell you the "best" distro to use, 
but there will be no consensus among the answers.

One can easily argue pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses of particular 
distros, but in the end they are all quite similar. I favor Debian myself, 
but not because I have any illusion about its being "best" ... simply 
because I've used it for years and am used to its particular quirks. The 
folks who will recommend Slackware, or Red Hat, or Gentoo, or whatever, 
really have the same sorts of biases.

If you are really a rank beginner, the "best" distro for you is the one 
used by your friend who knows Linux and who will help you out when you get 
in a jam.

Whatever distro you use, though, there are two constants:

1. Use an up-to-date version.
2. Use whatever system it has for tracking and installing security updates.

There are specialized small distros, like LEAF (leaf.sourceforge.net) and 
Coyote (DK the URL), that are designed with firewalling in mind. But you 
want a bit more then they easilt provide ... your items 5, 6, 8, and maybe 
4 ... so you are right, I think, to be looking at full-strength distros.

One advantage I will note for Debian is that it is designed to be 
distributed for free. That means that all users get good support as regards 
security. (The concomitant downside is that there is no fallback to a paid 
system of tech support if you run into bigger problems than you can get 
free help for.) Commercial distros tend (not surprisingly) to offer better 
support to paying customers than to freeloaders. So if anyone recommends a 
commercial distro, you might want to ask if that person's experience is 
with a free or a paid version of the distro.

>and the software i can use, like DNS = BIND, some thing simple to use...

OK. Item by item ...

>1. Firewall

Firewalling capability is built into the Linux kernel, using (for modern 
kernels) iptables/netfilter. You may want a firewall configuration package 
to make setting your firewall up easier. The best known, and probably 
actual best, package is Shorewall (shorewall.sourceforge.net, I think, but 
you can Google it if my memory is wrong).

>2. DNS

The standard package for DNS is BIND (named). Small distros use other, 
specialized packages, like dnscache and tinydns, but they are sufficiently 
quirky that you'd do better to stay with the standard on any full-size distro.

>3. DHCP

Server or client?

If you want the host to assign IP addresses, and related info, to its LAN 
clients via DHCP, then it needs to run a server. dhcpd (DHCP Daemon) is the 
standard one for full-size distros. There is also the smaller udhcpd.

If yout router needs to get its IP Address, and related info, from your ISP 
using DHCP, then it needs to run a DHCP client. The common ones are pump, 
dhclient, dhcpcd, and udhcpc ... I know of no particular favorite among them.

>4. SMTP (relay only)

People get into fights over this one. The standard smtp servers for Linux 
distros include sendmail, smail, exim, and qmail. Debian uses exim by 
default, and I find it works well for me. You should probably use whatever 
your chosen distro's default is, or whatever your experienced friend uses.

I assume you mean by "relay only" then you expect the system to send mail, 
but not to receive it. That is, you will get your e-mail via POP or IMAP. 
If I've misunderstood you, you need to explain your meaning more clearly.

>5. Email Virus Scaning

I don't know of any packages that do this on Linux. Perhaps someone else 
can jump in here. (I did just search the Debian packae list, and I saw 
several possibilities there, but I'm not familiar with any of them in detail.)

In any case, what you do here depends on how you are receiving e-mail, and 
your "relay only" comment above leave me uncertain about what you want to 
accomplish.

>6. Gray Listing (email)

Please explain this one better. I'm used to grey lists working as part of 
an smtp aemon setup. But if you get your e-mail via POP or IMAP (again, 
that "relay only" comment leaves me at a loss), I don't know what you want 
"grey listing" to do.

>7. NAT

This is part of the iptables/netfilter code in the kernel. Setup packages 
like Shorewall will help you to configure it.

>8 Web Cashing

I'm a bit out of date here. The usual way to do this is with a caching (not 
"cashing") proxy server like junkbuster or squid. There are a lot of them 
around; squid is probably still the standard.

>9. Web Based Configuration tool for all above.

Good luck. One place where Linux is weak is on unified configuration 
systems of any sort, and Web-based ones in partcular. In any case, 
Web-based configuration requires Web access to the host, and you won't get 
that out of the box with any distro ... they all require some console-based 
setup, if only to assign the IP address to the internal interface.

>the Box will be a P2 with 256MB ram but if i can get it to work on a P1
>166Mhz that would be great....

Probably a P1 will serve ... at least if we are talking about typical 
connection speeds (an external interface between 100 Kbps and 1.5 Mbps) and 
a 100 Mbps LAN. Here, for example, I've used a 486 with 32 MB RAM as 
dedicated firewall for years. Just a NAT'ing firewall, though ... no SMTP 
relay or Web caching.

Issues that might arise for you are:

1. Complexity of the firewall ruleset. Longer rulesets take more time to 
scan, and every packet has to traverse them until it matches a rule (or 
reaches the end). This is likely to be a problem only with very complex 
rulesets and high traffic volume.

2. Size of the Web cache. More RAM will matter here more than CPU type and 
speed. And if you're caching to a hard disk, you'll want one with DMA 
support (standard on modern systems, but I don't know about old P1s).

3. The SMTP stuff. Since I don't have a clear understanding of your setup 
plans here, or the likely mail volumes, I cannot comment substantively.

4. NAT overload. A firewall can NAT only so many active connections at a 
time ... several thousand, but not an unlimited number. This is rarely a 
problem, and when it is, better hardware doesn't solve it. But it is a 
problem that Linux NAT'ing firewall users (actually, all NAT'ing firewall 
users) occasionally run into.


>thanks
>Kev
[advertising deleted]



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Re[2]: Linux Help

[Kev]

Hi Ray...

Thanks agane for the reply,

Relay mean to relay mail to my local email server that will be running
behind the gateway box. and to relay the email from the email server to
the internet as a smart host.



On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 10:59:38 -0700
Ray Olszewski <ray@comarre.com> wrote:

>--> Responses interspersed below.
>--> 
>--> At 11:09 PM 7/19/2004 +0600, Kev wrote:
>--> >Hi,
>--> >
>--> >I'm new to Linux, so i'm paling to install a gateway, with the following,
>--> >
>--> >1. Firewall
>--> >2. DNS
>--> >3. DHCP
>--> >4. SMTP (relay only)
>--> >5. Email Virus Scaning
>--> >6. Gray Listing (email)
>--> >7. NAT
>--> >8 Web Cashing
>--> >9. Web Based Configuration tool for all above.
>--> >
>--> >can any one tell me the best Linux version to use, (RedHat, Debian, etc)
>--> 
>--> No. Or, put another way, everyone can tell you the "best" distro to use, 
>--> but there will be no consensus among the answers.
>--> 
>--> One can easily argue pros and cons, strengths and weaknesses of particular 
>--> distros, but in the end they are all quite similar. I favor Debian myself, 
>--> but not because I have any illusion about its being "best" ... simply 
>--> because I've used it for years and am used to its particular quirks. The 
>--> folks who will recommend Slackware, or Red Hat, or Gentoo, or whatever, 
>--> really have the same sorts of biases.
>--> 
>--> If you are really a rank beginner, the "best" distro for you is the one 
>--> used by your friend who knows Linux and who will help you out when you get 
>--> in a jam.
>--> 
>--> Whatever distro you use, though, there are two constants:
>--> 
>--> 1. Use an up-to-date version.
>--> 2. Use whatever system it has for tracking and installing security updates.
>--> 
>--> There are specialized small distros, like LEAF (leaf.sourceforge.net) and 
>--> Coyote (DK the URL), that are designed with firewalling in mind. But you 
>--> want a bit more then they easilt provide ... your items 5, 6, 8, and maybe 
>--> 4 ... so you are right, I think, to be looking at full-strength distros.
>--> 
>--> One advantage I will note for Debian is that it is designed to be 
>--> distributed for free. That means that all users get good support as regards 
>--> security. (The concomitant downside is that there is no fallback to a paid 
>--> system of tech support if you run into bigger problems than you can get 
>--> free help for.) Commercial distros tend (not surprisingly) to offer better 
>--> support to paying customers than to freeloaders. So if anyone recommends a 
>--> commercial distro, you might want to ask if that person's experience is 
>--> with a free or a paid version of the distro.
>--> 
>--> >and the software i can use, like DNS = BIND, some thing simple to use...
>--> 
>--> OK. Item by item ...
>--> 
>--> >1. Firewall
>--> 
>--> Firewalling capability is built into the Linux kernel, using (for modern 
>--> kernels) iptables/netfilter. You may want a firewall configuration package 
>--> to make setting your firewall up easier. The best known, and probably 
>--> actual best, package is Shorewall (shorewall.sourceforge.net, I think, but 
>--> you can Google it if my memory is wrong).
>--> 
>--> >2. DNS
>--> 
>--> The standard package for DNS is BIND (named). Small distros use other, 
>--> specialized packages, like dnscache and tinydns, but they are sufficiently 
>--> quirky that you'd do better to stay with the standard on any full-size distro.
>--> 
>--> >3. DHCP
>--> 
>--> Server or client?
>--> 
>--> If you want the host to assign IP addresses, and related info, to its LAN 
>--> clients via DHCP, then it needs to run a server. dhcpd (DHCP Daemon) is the 
>--> standard one for full-size distros. There is also the smaller udhcpd.
>--> 
>--> If yout router needs to get its IP Address, and related info, from your ISP 
>--> using DHCP, then it needs to run a DHCP client. The common ones are pump, 
>--> dhclient, dhcpcd, and udhcpc ... I know of no particular favorite among them.
>--> 
>--> >4. SMTP (relay only)
>--> 
>--> People get into fights over this one. The standard smtp servers for Linux 
>--> distros include sendmail, smail, exim, and qmail. Debian uses exim by 
>--> default, and I find it works well for me. You should probably use whatever 
>--> your chosen distro's default is, or whatever your experienced friend uses.
>--> 
>--> I assume you mean by "relay only" then you expect the system to send mail, 
>--> but not to receive it. That is, you will get your e-mail via POP or IMAP. 
>--> If I've misunderstood you, you need to explain your meaning more clearly.
>--> 
>--> >5. Email Virus Scaning
>--> 
>--> I don't know of any packages that do this on Linux. Perhaps someone else 
>--> can jump in here. (I did just search the Debian packae list, and I saw 
>--> several possibilities there, but I'm not familiar with any of them in detail.)
>--> 
>--> In any case, what you do here depends on how you are receiving e-mail, and 
>--> your "relay only" comment above leave me uncertain about what you want to 
>--> accomplish.
>--> 
>--> >6. Gray Listing (email)
>--> 
>--> Please explain this one better. I'm used to grey lists working as part of 
>--> an smtp aemon setup. But if you get your e-mail via POP or IMAP (again, 
>--> that "relay only" comment leaves me at a loss), I don't know what you want 
>--> "grey listing" to do.
>--> 
>--> >7. NAT
>--> 
>--> This is part of the iptables/netfilter code in the kernel. Setup packages 
>--> like Shorewall will help you to configure it.
>--> 
>--> >8 Web Cashing
>--> 
>--> I'm a bit out of date here. The usual way to do this is with a caching (not 
>--> "cashing") proxy server like junkbuster or squid. There are a lot of them 
>--> around; squid is probably still the standard.
>--> 
>--> >9. Web Based Configuration tool for all above.
>--> 
>--> Good luck. One place where Linux is weak is on unified configuration 
>--> systems of any sort, and Web-based ones in partcular. In any case, 
>--> Web-based configuration requires Web access to the host, and you won't get 
>--> that out of the box with any distro ... they all require some console-based 
>--> setup, if only to assign the IP address to the internal interface.
>--> 
>--> >the Box will be a P2 with 256MB ram but if i can get it to work on a P1
>--> >166Mhz that would be great....
>--> 
>--> Probably a P1 will serve ... at least if we are talking about typical 
>--> connection speeds (an external interface between 100 Kbps and 1.5 Mbps) and 
>--> a 100 Mbps LAN. Here, for example, I've used a 486 with 32 MB RAM as 
>--> dedicated firewall for years. Just a NAT'ing firewall, though ... no SMTP 
>--> relay or Web caching.
>--> 
>--> Issues that might arise for you are:
>--> 
>--> 1. Complexity of the firewall ruleset. Longer rulesets take more time to 
>--> scan, and every packet has to traverse them until it matches a rule (or 
>--> reaches the end). This is likely to be a problem only with very complex 
>--> rulesets and high traffic volume.
>--> 
>--> 2. Size of the Web cache. More RAM will matter here more than CPU type and 
>--> speed. And if you're caching to a hard disk, you'll want one with DMA 
>--> support (standard on modern systems, but I don't know about old P1s).
>--> 
>--> 3. The SMTP stuff. Since I don't have a clear understanding of your setup 
>--> plans here, or the likely mail volumes, I cannot comment substantively.
>--> 
>--> 4. NAT overload. A firewall can NAT only so many active connections at a 
>--> time ... several thousand, but not an unlimited number. This is rarely a 
>--> problem, and when it is, better hardware doesn't solve it. But it is a 
>--> problem that Linux NAT'ing firewall users (actually, all NAT'ing firewall 
>--> users) occasionally run into.
>--> 
>--> 
>--> >thanks
>--> >Kev
>--> [advertising deleted]
>--> 
>--> 
>--> 
>--> -
>--> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
>--> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
>--> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
>--> Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
>--> 

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Re[2]: Linux Help

[Ray Olszewski]

At 12:08 AM 7/20/2004 +0600, Kev wrote:
>Hi Ray...
>
>Thanks agane for the reply,
>
>Relay mean to relay mail to my local email server that will be running
>behind the gateway box. and to relay the email from the email server to
>the internet as a smart host.

Well ... if you have an SMTP server on a LAN ("local") host, running an 
SMTP relay on the firewall/router is probably unnecessary. What you can do 
(this is what I do here) is DNAT (port forward) traffic coming to port 25 
on the router's external interface to port 25 on the existing SMTP server. 
Then you can run your greylist and virus checking on that server. This 
approach minimizes the amount of stuff you have running on the 
firewall/router, always a good idea from a security standpoint.

As to outgoing SMTP traffic, there is no need to "relay" it from the LAN 
SMTP server. Ordinary NATing will handle outgoing SMTP traffic from that 
server (unless you have unusual requirments imposed by your ISP ... but if 
you do, you won't get intelligent advice about how to cope with them unless 
you mention them).



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Re[3]: Linux Help

[Kev]

> Well ... if you have an SMTP server on a LAN ("local") host, running an 
> SMTP relay on the firewall/router is probably unnecessary. What you can do 
> (this is what I do here) is DNAT (port forward) traffic coming to port 25 
> on the router's external interface to port 25 on the existing SMTP server. 
> Then you can run your greylist and virus checking on that server.

i got a windows 2000 with exchange as the mail server, 
so i dont like to keep it as the SMTP coz of the virus. so i think its better to have a vires wall with the SMTP on the firewall.


> As to outgoing SMTP traffic, there is no need to "relay" it from the LAN 
> SMTP server. Ordinary NATing will handle outgoing SMTP traffic from that 
> server 

load is really on the mail server so we need a relay to take the load off the server. (mail server)

On Mon, 19 Jul 2004 12:11:20 -0700
Ray Olszewski <ray@comarre.com> wrote:

> At 12:08 AM 7/20/2004 +0600, Kev wrote:
> >Hi Ray...
> >
> >Thanks agane for the reply,
> >
> >Relay mean to relay mail to my local email server that will be running
> >behind the gateway box. and to relay the email from the email server to
> >the internet as a smart host.
> 
> Well ... if you have an SMTP server on a LAN ("local") host, running an 
> SMTP relay on the firewall/router is probably unnecessary. What you can do 
> (this is what I do here) is DNAT (port forward) traffic coming to port 25 
> on the router's external interface to port 25 on the existing SMTP server. 
> Then you can run your greylist and virus checking on that server. This 
> approach minimizes the amount of stuff you have running on the 
> firewall/router, always a good idea from a security standpoint.
> 
> As to outgoing SMTP traffic, there is no need to "relay" it from the LAN 
> SMTP server. Ordinary NATing will handle outgoing SMTP traffic from that 
> server (unless you have unusual requirments imposed by your ISP ... but if 
> you do, you won't get intelligent advice about how to cope with them unless 
> you mention them).
> 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe linux-newbie" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
> 

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Re: Linux Help

[Eric Bambach]

On Monday 19 July 2004 12:59 pm, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> Responses interspersed below.
>
> At 11:09 PM 7/19/2004 +0600, Kev wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >I'm new to Linux, so i'm paling to install a gateway, with the following,
> >
> >1. Firewall
> >2. DNS
> >3. DHCP
> >4. SMTP (relay only)
> >5. Email Virus Scaning
> >6. Gray Listing (email)
> >7. NAT
> >8 Web Cashing
> >9. Web Based Configuration tool for all above.
--Snip--
> Whatever distro you use, though, there are two constants:
>
> 1. Use an up-to-date version.
> 2. Use whatever system it has for tracking and installing security updates.
>

Agree.

> OK. Item by item ...
>

> >5. Email Virus Scaning
>
> I don't know of any packages that do this on Linux. Perhaps someone else
> can jump in here. (I did just search the Debian packae list, and I saw
> several possibilities there, but I'm not familiar with any of them in
> detail.)
>
> In any case, what you do here depends on how you are receiving e-mail, and
> your "relay only" comment above leave me uncertain about what you want to
> accomplish.

This is tough. How you chose to accomplish this will affect what SMTP/Mail 
client you choose. Ive seen some anti-viurs tools that only work with q-mail, 
or that only work with sendmail, or they work for one, but are extremely 
difficult to configure for another. My best advice, for tackling gray-listing 
and antivirus and an e-mail setup, look deeply into all three before you pick 
any one package. Eg. look at what qmail has to offer and the solutions for 
greylisting and antivirus, then check out sendmail etc. If you settle on any 
one mail package, then, as a novice, you might limit yourself too much on 
choosing a decent or compatible greylisting and antivirus solution.

> >6. Gray Listing (email)
>
> Please explain this one better. I'm used to grey lists working as part of
> an smtp aemon setup. But if you get your e-mail via POP or IMAP (again,
> that "relay only" comment leaves me at a loss), I don't know what you want
> "grey listing" to do.

Gerylisting solutions can be found here for various mail servers.

http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/links.html
 
> >8 Web Cashing
>
> I'm a bit out of date here. The usual way to do this is with a caching (not
> "cashing") proxy server like junkbuster or squid. There are a lot of them
> around; squid is probably still the standard.

Go with squid. It has a good default configuration and you will only need to 
change a few things to get it started on your network. That is the allow/deny 
lines i believe, and maybe set your cache directory.

> >9. Web Based Configuration tool for all above.
>
> Good luck. One place where Linux is weak is on unified configuration
> systems of any sort, and Web-based ones in partcular. In any case,
> Web-based configuration requires Web access to the host, and you won't get
> that out of the box with any distro ... they all require some console-based
> setup, if only to assign the IP address to the internal interface.

Look at Webmin. 
http://www.webmin.com/
Great web-tool that supports SSL, and third party modules to configure any 
type of daemon or system operation. Not quite a do-it-all-in-one-wonder tool 
all by itself, but its pretty darn good. Webmin can help you set up qmail, 
sendmail, squid, bind, dhcpd and more.

> >the Box will be a P2 with 256MB ram but if i can get it to work on a P1
> >166Mhz that would be great....
>
> Probably a P1 will serve ... at least if we are talking about typical
> connection speeds (an external interface between 100 Kbps and 1.5 Mbps) and
> a 100 Mbps LAN. Here, for example, I've used a 486 with 32 MB RAM as
> dedicated firewall for years. Just a NAT'ing firewall, though ... no SMTP
> relay or Web caching.
>
> Issues that might arise for you are:
>
> 1. Complexity of the firewall ruleset. Longer rulesets take more time to
> scan, and every packet has to traverse them until it matches a rule (or
> reaches the end). This is likely to be a problem only with very complex
> rulesets and high traffic volume.
>
> 2. Size of the Web cache. More RAM will matter here more than CPU type and
> speed. And if you're caching to a hard disk, you'll want one with DMA
> support (standard on modern systems, but I don't know about old P1s).

Pick up a cheap ( $20? ) PCI IDE card. Now they will support up to 133 MB/s 
and are supported esily by linux drivers.

-- 

-EB
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