Debian install issue

Debian install issue

[James Miller]

Hello. I have an old machine I use mostly for email and light duty 
browsing - nothing fancy. It is a P 75 with 32 MB RAM 1 MB (forgot which) 
PCI video card and < 1 GB HD. I have an old AOC B&W monitor hooked up to 
it.

I had RH 6.2 on there, but was not very happy with it. I was running fvwm 
for the desktop. A little bit less than standard install took up about 90% 
of the 600 MB HD space. There was a chat prog I ran alot (AIM for Linux) 
that was causing me grief, and I wanted to replace it with GAIM. But I 
needed an updated install of RPM to install any newer version of GAIM. So, 
when push came to shove, I decided I should try some other distro, one 
more geared toward a "survpc" like this one. Thought about Slackware, but 
decided to go with Debian, which I've never used before but have heard 
good reports on visa vis survpc's.

I stuck in a second drive which I made master of the primary and did the 
install of Debian 2.25 (Potato? - sorry if I'm making a mistake on the 
release #: I don't have the disk here at home so am reciting from memory). 
It went fairly uneventfully until I got to configuration of X. Probably I 
entered in the wrong vertical sync rate (I selected 50-70, unfortunately. 
I really have no idea of the refresh rates of this monitor, but I had a 
feeling that a 50-70 rate was going to be too narrow). I am now stuck at 
the X configuration stage of the install. I think Debian is preparing to 
go to VGA mode in order to do the config. It fails with the error 
"X11TransocketUNIXConnect : can't connect : errno 111" - and spits out 
that message about 8 times. Then it goes back to the same point in the 
install where I am asked to configure X. So I'm sort of stuck in a 
vicious circle.

So, for you Debian users: how do I deal with this? Is there a way I can 
complete the install, by going back in the process, for example, and 
reselecting refresh rates? It obviously wants to create an XF86Config file. 
Do I have to just abandon the install and start all over again?

Also: anyone with tips for configuring X for monochrome, please feel free 
to chip in as well.

Thanks, James

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Re: Debian install issue

[Ray Olszewski]

There are a couple of things that are unclear from what you wrote.

1. Are you installing using dpkg or apt-get?

2. What version of X are you installing (I know what Woody, the current 
Debian Stable, installs, but I don't remember what Potato was doing or what 
package names it used, and I don't have a Potato system around that has X 
installed)? On Debian systems, X 3.x.x uses CF86Config, and X 4.x.x uses 
XF86Config-4, so I'll assume for now that you are trying to install 3.x.x, 
since you mention XF86Config.

That said ... you should be able to CTRL-C out of wherever you are stuck, 
leaving the install incomplete. You can then clean things up in any of 
several ways ....

1. Use apt-get to remove the X package(s), then complete the install with 
dpkg. Only then, try to install X once again.

2. Force a reconfig of X with the command "dpkg --configure [package name]".

3. Edit XF86Config by hand.

Your problem may not be with configuration, though; it may be that you did 
not install the X server you need. XFree86 3.x.x used separate servers for 
each type of video card, and just picking one during configuration is not 
enough ... you need to have thr right package installed as well. This may 
be why the installer tries and fails to fall back to VGA ... you may not 
have the VGA server installed. The error you report 
("X11TransocketUNIXConnect : can't connect : errno 111") is one you get 
when you try to start an X app but there is no X server running; you might 
want to notice what appears right before that error message.

BTW, there is a monochrome server for X, though I forget its name. From 
what you wrote, it is not clear whether you have a mono video card or just 
a mono monitor; you'd used the mono X server only in the first case.

At 09:18 PM 10/7/02 -0500, James Miller wrote:
>Hello. I have an old machine I use mostly for email and light duty
>browsing - nothing fancy. It is a P 75 with 32 MB RAM 1 MB (forgot which)
>PCI video card and < 1 GB HD. I have an old AOC B&W monitor hooked up to
>it.
>
>I had RH 6.2 on there, but was not very happy with it. I was running fvwm
>for the desktop. A little bit less than standard install took up about 90%
>of the 600 MB HD space. There was a chat prog I ran alot (AIM for Linux)
>that was causing me grief, and I wanted to replace it with GAIM. But I
>needed an updated install of RPM to install any newer version of GAIM. So,
>when push came to shove, I decided I should try some other distro, one
>more geared toward a "survpc" like this one. Thought about Slackware, but
>decided to go with Debian, which I've never used before but have heard
>good reports on visa vis survpc's.
>
>I stuck in a second drive which I made master of the primary and did the
>install of Debian 2.25 (Potato? - sorry if I'm making a mistake on the
>release #: I don't have the disk here at home so am reciting from memory).
>It went fairly uneventfully until I got to configuration of X. Probably I
>entered in the wrong vertical sync rate (I selected 50-70, unfortunately.
>I really have no idea of the refresh rates of this monitor, but I had a
>feeling that a 50-70 rate was going to be too narrow). I am now stuck at
>the X configuration stage of the install. I think Debian is preparing to
>go to VGA mode in order to do the config. It fails with the error
>"X11TransocketUNIXConnect : can't connect : errno 111" - and spits out
>that message about 8 times. Then it goes back to the same point in the
>install where I am asked to configure X. So I'm sort of stuck in a
>vicious circle.
>
>So, for you Debian users: how do I deal with this? Is there a way I can
>complete the install, by going back in the process, for example, and
>reselecting refresh rates? It obviously wants to create an XF86Config file.
>Do I have to just abandon the install and start all over again?
>
>Also: anyone with tips for configuring X for monochrome, please feel free
>to chip in as well.



--
-------------------------------------------"Never tell me the odds!"--------
Ray Olszewski					-- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: Debian install issue

[James Miller]

Apologies if this message gets double-posted. I sent it 12 hrs ago or so 
but have not seen it hit the list yet.

On 7 Oct 2002, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> 
> 1. Are you installing using dpkg or apt-get?
> 

Apt-get, I believe.

> 2. What version of X are you installing (I know what Woody, the current 
> Debian Stable, installs, but I don't remember what Potato was doing or what 
> package names it used, and I don't have a Potato system around that has X 
> installed)? On Debian systems, X 3.x.x uses CF86Config, and X 4.x.x uses 
> XF86Config-4, so I'll assume for now that you are trying to install 3.x.x, 
> since you mention XF86Config.
> 

Yes, it's 3.3.6

> That said ... you should be able to CTRL-C out of wherever you are stuck, 
> leaving the install incomplete. You can then clean things up in any of 
> several ways ....
> 

That's what I did. I fiddled a bit with a couple of the options you 
proposed, but not with much success. I don't claim to be very adept at 
Linux or in using computers in general. I finally just decided to 
reinstall. I did that a couple of more times. I finally got to the point 
of running XF86Setup from the command line (since, I think, I did not 
select a default X server - SVGA and VGA16 being the ones offerred, IIRC). 
I actually went through the setup, got the mouse and everything 
configured, and was congratulated at having a working xserver configured. But 
each time I would try to startx (by typing "startx" at the command line), 
the server would abort with errors. There were no modes available, 
apparently, under the 640x480 resolution (I tried other resolutions and 
color depths, but 640x480 is the only one that would actually work).

I got frustrated with that and decided to try Slackware (8.0) - the other 
survpc-friendly distro I've heard about. Well, I finally got that 
installed as well. But it also will not start X. It says there are no 
screens available. I selected TERM=vt100 for the installation routine, 
since Slack suggests that if you don't have a color monitor.

Sorry for being a bit vague on the error messages. I know I could probably 
get better help in troubleshooting my particular setup by posting details 
about them. But for now I'm just trying to identify the general drift of the 
problem. It seems to me it could be my old AOC monochrome monitor (yes, the 
card is SVGA, not monochrome). Does that sound like it could be the source of 
the X difficulties I'm having? The monitor has worked just fine under RH 6.2 
- no problems whatever. Could newer versions of XFree86 be somehow incompatible 
with the monitor I'm using and causing such errors?

For now, I'm trying to identify in principle the nature of this problem. 
You see, I have older color (VGA, probably) monitors laying around I could 
use. I'm faced now with determining if hooking up one of those might not 
be the simplest way to resolve the troubles I'm having - simpler, that is, 
than ironing out how to get a working display on the old monochrome 
monitor.

Further input will be appreciated.

James

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RE: Debian install issue

[Ray Olszewski]

OK. This report is quite different. Since you are having trouble with 
Debian *and* Slackware, we can eliminate Debian-specific issues. And you 
are correct to write that "I know I could probably get better help in 
troubleshooting my particular setup by posting details about them." As you 
surmise, we'll have to stay with the "general drift" of the problem.

If X fails with errors, then the problem is not at the level of your 
display. If it were, you'd just see a blank display, because X woudl think 
it was working, even though the display failed,. Your problem might be at 
the level of your video card, or it might be that you made inconsistent 
choices in XF86Setup.

You say (with respect to the Debian install):

>But
>each time I would try to startx (by typing "startx" at the command line),
>the server would abort with errors. There were no modes available,
>apparently, under the 640x480 resolution (I tried other resolutions and
>color depths, but 640x480 is the only one that would actually work).

In what you write here, what do you mean by "actually work" (since you say 
this choice aborts with errors)?

What xserver have you chosen? Is it the right one for your video card (vga 
is a pretty generic xserver, and if you can run XF86Setup, then your card 
works with it ... but svga is far from generic for better color-size 
setting). URL www.xfree86.org has a "cardlist" somewhere on its site that 
tells you what xserver to use with various cards. And 640x480 is only a 
resolution; what color depths are you trying?

You say this card-monitor combo worked with RH 6.2 -- you do mean it worked 
as an X display, right? If so, what were the details -- what xserver, what 
XF86Config settings?

As to Slackware (and btw, what does "survpc-friendly" mean?) ... what is 
the "it" that says "no screens available"? Setting TERM=vt100 has nothing 
to do with X installation; it just identifies the default terminal type of 
console displays.

In the end, I suspect these random observations I'm offering won't bring 
you any closer to the source of the problem. You need to do one of two things.

One -- if you had some setup that ran X successfully (e.g., RH 6.2), stay 
with that install, at least long enough to preserve its XF86Config file, so 
you have a sample of a working config (also make note of the version of 
XFree85 it installs ... RH 6.2 is quite old, so it might be a dated X). Use 
that info to configure X on whichever distro you prefer.

Two -- pick one distro, install it, configure X, and if it fails, save the 
error output (by redirecting both STDIN and STRERR to a file). Use this, 
combined with XF86Config, to post a requrst for help that includes the kind 
of detail we need to do real troubleshooting.

At 11:14 AM 10/9/02 -0500, James Miller wrote:
>Apologies if this message gets double-posted. I sent it 12 hrs ago or so
>but have not seen it hit the list yet.
>
>On 7 Oct 2002, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> >
> > 1. Are you installing using dpkg or apt-get?
> >
>
>Apt-get, I believe.
>
> > 2. What version of X are you installing (I know what Woody, the current
> > Debian Stable, installs, but I don't remember what Potato was doing or 
> what
> > package names it used, and I don't have a Potato system around that has X
> > installed)? On Debian systems, X 3.x.x uses CF86Config, and X 4.x.x uses
> > XF86Config-4, so I'll assume for now that you are trying to install 3.x.x,
> > since you mention XF86Config.
> >
>
>Yes, it's 3.3.6
>
> > That said ... you should be able to CTRL-C out of wherever you are stuck,
> > leaving the install incomplete. You can then clean things up in any of
> > several ways ....
> >
>
>That's what I did. I fiddled a bit with a couple of the options you
>proposed, but not with much success. I don't claim to be very adept at
>Linux or in using computers in general. I finally just decided to
>reinstall. I did that a couple of more times. I finally got to the point
>of running XF86Setup from the command line (since, I think, I did not
>select a default X server - SVGA and VGA16 being the ones offerred, IIRC).
>I actually went through the setup, got the mouse and everything
>configured, and was congratulated at having a working xserver configured. But
>each time I would try to startx (by typing "startx" at the command line),
>the server would abort with errors. There were no modes available,
>apparently, under the 640x480 resolution (I tried other resolutions and
>color depths, but 640x480 is the only one that would actually work).
>
>I got frustrated with that and decided to try Slackware (8.0) - the other
>survpc-friendly distro I've heard about. Well, I finally got that
>installed as well. But it also will not start X. It says there are no
>screens available. I selected TERM=vt100 for the installation routine,
>since Slack suggests that if you don't have a color monitor.
>
>Sorry for being a bit vague on the error messages. I know I could probably
>get better help in troubleshooting my particular setup by posting details
>about them. But for now I'm just trying to identify the general drift of the
>problem. It seems to me it could be my old AOC monochrome monitor (yes, the
>card is SVGA, not monochrome). Does that sound like it could be the source of
>the X difficulties I'm having? The monitor has worked just fine under RH 6.2
>- no problems whatever. Could newer versions of XFree86 be somehow 
>incompatible
>with the monitor I'm using and causing such errors?
>
>For now, I'm trying to identify in principle the nature of this problem.
>You see, I have older color (VGA, probably) monitors laying around I could
>use. I'm faced now with determining if hooking up one of those might not
>be the simplest way to resolve the troubles I'm having - simpler, that is,
>than ironing out how to get a working display on the old monochrome
>monitor.




--
-------------------------------------------"Never tell me the odds!"--------
Ray Olszewski					-- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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RE: Debian install issue

[James Miller]

On 9 Oct 2002, Ray Olszewski wrote:

> You say (with respect to the Debian install):
> 
> >But
> >each time I would try to startx (by typing "startx" at the command line),
> >the server would abort with errors. There were no modes available,
> >apparently, under the 640x480 resolution (I tried other resolutions and
> >color depths, but 640x480 is the only one that would actually work).
> 
> In what you write here, what do you mean by "actually work" (since you say 
> this choice aborts with errors)?
> 

Yeah, I noted that unclarity too - but only *after* I had sent the 
message! By "actually worked" I meant that I could complete the XF86Setup 
routine and be greeted in the end with the falsely encouraging 
"congratulations! you now have a working xserver" screen . At other 
resolutions, I could not complete the XF86Setup: it would hang, showing a greatly 
magnified transition screen, and never get to the "congratulations" part. 
When this would happen, I could not even run XF86Setup again and get the 
graphical frontend for the set up. Fortunately, I saved a working copy 
(one that worked for displaying the graphical frontend of XF86Setup, I 
mean) of XF86Config and would just go in and copy that to XF86Config, 
replacing the problem file the setup had just created. So, by "actually 
worked" I meant that it would at least display the XF86Setup graphical 
frontend in VGA (SVGA?) mode.

> What xserver have you chosen? Is it the right one for your video card (vga 
> is a pretty generic xserver, and if you can run XF86Setup, then your card 
> works with it ... but svga is far from generic for better color-size 
> setting). URL www.xfree86.org has a "cardlist" somewhere on its site that 
> tells you what xserver to use with various cards. And 640x480 is only a 
> resolution; what color depths are you trying?
> 

I tried SVGA and VGA_16. The install routine detected my graphics card as 
a Cirrus GD 5430, and said it would support SVGA. I tried all color 
depths - 8 through 32 - that were offered. All "worked" in getting as far 
as the "congratulations" screen (under 640x480, I should mention), but all 
failed with errors on "startx" from the CLI.

> You say this card-monitor combo worked with RH 6.2 -- you do mean it worked 
> as an X display, right? If so, what were the details -- what xserver, what 
> XF86Config settings?
> 

Exactly. I had (have - I still have that drive hooked up but it's not 
bootable til I move Lilo into the superblock) a working X display under RH 
6.2. And I'll sure take a look there to see what xserver it's using. Great 
advice. And, hey, why not just copy XF86Config file straight from there to 
the Debian install? Not the most debonnaire solution, but hey, if it 
works, the boys down at the docks'll never know it wasn't by sheer force 
of native brilliance that I resolved this one!

> As to Slackware (and btw, what does "survpc-friendly" mean?) ... what is 
> the "it" that says "no screens available"? Setting TERM=vt100 has nothing 
> to do with X installation; it just identifies the default terminal type of 
> console displays.
> 

Sorry I can't really say what "surv-pc friendly" means. I'm probably just 
repeating something I read somewhere on some survpc site. Maybe it means 
better compliance with older hardware standards? The "it" is the message 
that shows onscreen after the failed startx attempt.

> One -- if you had some setup that ran X successfully (e.g., RH 6.2), stay 
> with that install, at least long enough to preserve its XF86Config file, so 
> you have a sample of a working config (also make note of the version of 
> XFree85 it installs ... RH 6.2 is quite old, so it might be a dated X). Use 
> that info to configure X on whichever distro you prefer.
> 

Duly noted. Thanks.

> Two -- pick one distro, install it, configure X, and if it fails, save the 
> error output (by redirecting both STDIN and STRERR to a file). Use this, 
> combined with XF86Config, to post a requrst for help that includes the kind 
> of detail we need to do real troubleshooting.
> 

Never done that before (i.e., redirecting output), but I'll keep it on 
file, give it a try and maybe send the info, if I can't resolve this through 
standard slash-and-burn techniques.

Thanks, Ray.

James

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RE: Debian install issue

[Paul Kraus]

I know you can redirect the standard output with > and then the file
name you want. But how do you also redirect the STRERR?


> Two -- pick one distro, install it, configure X, and if it fails, save

> the
> error output (by redirecting both STDIN and STRERR to a file). Use
this, 
> combined with XF86Config, to post a requrst for help that includes the
kind 
> of detail we need to do real troubleshooting.
> 


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RE: Debian install issue

[Little, Chris]

stuff_to_redirect 2> file.out

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Kraus [mailto:pkraus@pelsupply.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 1:01 PM
> To: 'James Miller'; linux-newbie@vger.kernel.org
> Subject: RE: Debian install issue
> 
> 
> I know you can redirect the standard output with > and then the file
> name you want. But how do you also redirect the STRERR?
> 
> 
> > Two -- pick one distro, install it, configure X, and if it 
> fails, save
> 
> > the
> > error output (by redirecting both STDIN and STRERR to a file). Use
> this, 
> > combined with XF86Config, to post a requrst for help that 
> includes the
> kind 
> > of detail we need to do real troubleshooting.
> > 
> 
> 
> -
> To unsubscribe from this list: send the line "unsubscribe 
> linux-newbie" in
> the body of a message to majordomo@vger.kernel.org
> More majordomo info at  http://vger.kernel.org/majordomo-info.html
> Please read the FAQ at http://www.linux-learn.org/faqs
> 
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Re: Debian install issue

[Jim Reimer]

Paul Kraus wrote:
> I know you can redirect the standard output with > and then the file
> name you want. But how do you also redirect the STRERR?

cmd 2>file             will leave stdout on screen and send
                        stderr to file
cmd > file 2>&1        will send both to file
(cmd > file1) 2>file2  sends stdout to file1 and stderr to file2

then there's also  'tee'  if you ever need it.

-jdr-


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RE: Debian install issue

[Ray Olszewski]

At 02:01 PM 10/9/02 -0400, Paul Kraus wrote:
>I know you can redirect the standard output with > and then the file
>name you want. But how do you also redirect the STRERR?

At least with bash, you use

         2> filename

to redirect STDERR to its own file.

You use

         > filename 2>&1

to redirect both STDOUT and STDERR to the same file (the second part, to be 
exact, redirects STDERR to STDOUT, which the first part has already 
redirected to the file).


--
-------------------------------------------"Never tell me the odds!"--------
Ray Olszewski					-- Han Solo
Palo Alto, California, USA			  ray@comarre.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Debian install issue

[ichi]

> On 9 Oct 2002, Ray Olszewski wrote:
>
> > As to Slackware (and btw, what does "survpc-friendly" mean?) 

survpc  =  survivor PC  =  sub-Pentium PC

Slackware is survpc-friendly because even the latest version (8.1) 
runs on a 386, provides a low-mem kernel for systems with less 
than 8mb RAM and supports old non-IDE CDroms.  And (incredibly) 
it even supports pre-IDE (two cable) harddrives and MicroChannel 
systems.  I know of no other up-to-date, mainsteam distro that 
provides that much upfront support for old hardware.

Cheers,
Steven


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