group

group

[dave]

I made a subdirectory called "everyone", "/home/everyone".  I want to 
use this folder for sharing files from my windows clients as well as 
myself.  I used chgrp to make the folders owner group everyone.  I added 
the users to this group.  I changed the group permissions to rwx with 
chmod.  When I reboot, the subdirectory reverts back to r-x.  My group 
members cannot write to the directory.  I'm running Mandrake 9.2.  
Another problem is when I start Konquerer as a file manager.  I enter 
the root password and tell it to save the password.  the next time I 
start Konquerer I have to enter the root password again.  I'm confused, 
Does anyone have some light to shed on these issues?  Thanks in advance.
Dave

-- 
Dave Pomeroy K7DNP South Eastern Washington


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Re: group

[Ray Olszewski]

At 12:38 PM 12/26/2003 -0800, dave wrote:
>I made a subdirectory called "everyone", "/home/everyone".  I want to use 
>this folder for sharing files from my windows clients as well as 
>myself.  I used chgrp to make the folders owner group everyone.  I added 
>the users to this group.  I changed the group permissions to rwx with 
>chmod.  When I reboot, the subdirectory reverts back to r-x.  My group 
>members cannot write to the directory.  I'm running Mandrake 9.2.

I don't *quite* understand what you are describing. Is it only after the 
reboot that users are unable to write to the directory? Or are they always 
unable to write to it?

Just to be sure we are all talking about the same thing, please send us the 
output of this sequence of commands (run as root):

         ls -l /home/everyone
         chmod 775 /home/everyone
         chgrp everyone /home/everyone
         ls -l /home/everyone
         grep everyone /etc/group

What test are you using for "cannot write" and what is an example of the 
actual failure? Are we talking about users unable to save to the directory 
from login shells? Or Samba failures? Or what? Can root save to the 
directory (just trying to eliminate here the possibility of a RO filesystem)?

There is probably some error of detail in your procedure. With the above 
output, I (or someone else here, perhaps even you yourself) may be able to 
spot it. (For example,. you write: "I used chgrp to make the folders owner 
group everyone". The term *owner* applies to a userid, not a groupid. This 
may just be a terminology imprecision, or it may reflect an error in what 
you are actually doing.)

I don't use Konquerer so cannot help with your second problem.

>Another problem is when I start Konquerer as a file manager.  I enter the 
>root password and tell it to save the password.  the next time I start 
>Konquerer I have to enter the root password again.  I'm confused, Does 
>anyone have some light to shed on these issues?  Thanks in advance.
>Dave




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Re: group

[Jos Lemmerling]

On Fri, 26 Dec 2003, dave wrote:

> I made a subdirectory called "everyone", "/home/everyone".  I want to 
> use this folder for sharing files from my windows clients as well as 
> myself.  I used chgrp to make the folders owner group everyone.  I added 
> the users to this group.  I changed the group permissions to rwx with 
> chmod.  When I reboot, the subdirectory reverts back to r-x.  My group 

This is probarly a mandrake-thingy.. Some googling tells me something
about the "mandrake security level" aka "msec level". 

You'll have to do some more digging on your mandrake-box yourself I
guess... ;)

Maybe as a "quick and dirty-fix", you could try to move the directory to
another place like for instance /  (/everyone).


> members cannot write to the directory.  I'm running Mandrake 9.2.  
> Another problem is when I start Konquerer as a file manager.  I enter 
> the root password and tell it to save the password.  the next time I 
> start Konquerer I have to enter the root password again.  I'm confused, 
> Does anyone have some light to shed on these issues?  Thanks in advance.

This also *could* have to do with the above; it's very easy to make a
mistake with an accidental "mouse-move". These kind of mistakes *as root*
aren't very funny... :(

Maybe it's just a way of letting you know/confirm you're running konquerer
as root.

But I don't use Konquerer either...


HTH

--
Jos Lemmerling on Debian GNU/Linux			jos(@)lemmerling(.nl)

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group

[dave]

Everyone,
  Thanks for the info on msec running Mandrake.  I changed the msec from 
normal to one leverl less secure.  Now it saves my changes.  It still 
doesn't make sense to me.  Why can't I have a secure system and still 
share files?  Anyway thanks for the help.
Dave

-- 
Dave Pomeroy K7DNP South Eastern Washington


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Re: group

[caszonyi]

On Thu, 1 Jan 2004, dave wrote:

> Everyone,
>   Thanks for the info on msec running Mandrake.  I changed the msec from
> normal to one leverl less secure.  Now it saves my changes.  It still
> doesn't make sense to me.  Why can't I have a secure system and still
> share files?  Anyway thanks for the help.
> Dave
>

Well, for some people security means closing ports :-)
It's the easiest way to keep a system secure. Unfortunately it's also the
easiest way of preventing you doing other things :-(


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group

[dave]

I'll try to ask this question so that it makes sense.  I'm running 
Mandrake 9.1.  I've made a folder called "/home/everyone".  I have my 
daughter sharing an internet connection on my local network.  My router 
gives ip addresses when she starts her computer, (windows98) and it 
gives me an ip address when I start up, (Mandrake 9.1).  I'm trying to 
share the folder "/home/everyone" between  her and me.  Samba gives her 
access to Laura folder on my linux box and when she logs into my linux 
machine she can also access her folder.  I've changed the permissions on 
the /home/everyone folder to rwx with chmod.  When I reboot I loose the 
w permission on /home/everyone.  Otherwise everything works great.  
Anyone have some suggestions?  Thanks for your help.
Dave

-- 
Dave Pomeroy K7DNP South Eastern Washington


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Re: group

[Ray Olszewski]

At 01:17 PM 1/1/2004 -0800, dave wrote:
>I'll try to ask this question so that it makes sense.  I'm running 
>Mandrake 9.1.  I've made a folder called "/home/everyone".  I have my 
>daughter sharing an internet connection on my local network.  My router 
>gives ip addresses when she starts her computer, (windows98) and it gives 
>me an ip address when I start up, (Mandrake 9.1).  I'm trying to share the 
>folder "/home/everyone" between  her and me.  Samba gives her access to 
>Laura folder on my linux box and when she logs into my linux machine she 
>can also access her folder.  I've changed the permissions on the 
>/home/everyone folder to rwx with chmod.  When I reboot I loose the w 
>permission on /home/everyone.  Otherwise everything works great.
>Anyone have some suggestions?  Thanks for your help.


Dave -- DId you see my reply to your earlier query to the list? I didn't 
copy you individually, assuming you were subscribed, and I suppose I may 
have assumed wrong. This time I am cc'ing you.

In case you missed it before, I think it still applies to the revised 
version of your questions, so I quote it here. It applies to the slightly 
different trouble report you posted the first time, which is why a couple 
of the specifics may seem not to make sense given this variant in your 
reporting.

>I don't *quite* understand what you are describing. Is it only after the 
>reboot that users are unable to write to the directory? Or are they always 
>unable to write to it?
>
>Just to be sure we are all talking about the same thing, please send us 
>the output of this sequence of commands (run as root):
>
>         ls -l /home/everyone
>         chmod 775 /home/everyone
>         chgrp everyone /home/everyone
>         ls -l /home/everyone
>         grep everyone /etc/group
>
>What test are you using for "cannot write" and what is an example of the 
>actual failure? Are we talking about users unable to save to the directory 
>from login shells? Or Samba failures? Or what? Can root save to the 
>directory (just trying to eliminate here the possibility of a RO filesystem)?
>
>There is probably some error of detail in your procedure. With the above 
>output, I (or someone else here, perhaps even you yourself) may be able to 
>spot it. (For example,. you write: "I used chgrp to make the folders owner 
>group everyone". The term *owner* applies to a userid, not a groupid. This 
>may just be a terminology imprecision, or it may reflect an error in what 
>you are actually doing.)



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group

[dave]

I've made a group called everyone.  It has its own Sub-directory, 
"/home/everyone".  I have 3 users in the group.  Do I have to do 
anything else so everyone can share that Sub-directory?  Mandrake 9.2. 
Thanks in advance.
Dave

-- 
Dave Pomeroy K7DNP South Eastern Washington


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Re: group

[jos]

On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, dave wrote:

> I've made a group called everyone.  It has its own Sub-directory, 
> "/home/everyone".  I have 3 users in the group.  Do I have to do 
> anything else so everyone can share that Sub-directory?  Mandrake 9.2. 

Most likely you'll have to make sure that the group is accessable
to the group everyone (chgrp everyone /home/everyone).

The next step is to make it writeable to "everyone" : chmod 2770 everyone/ 

The "2" makes sure that all files and directories created in the directory
/home/everyone are set to the group everyone (otherwise they would be set
to the file-creators group and thus not writeable to other users).

The last step is to change the default umask to 002 instead of 022 so all
files will have the permissions set correctly (-rw-rw-r-- instead of
-rw-r--r--). If you don't do this, user1 cannot change the files user2 has
created.

The default umask can be set in the users profile
(/home/user1/.bash_profile) with the line "umask 002".

That should be all!

HTH

--
Jos Lemmerling on Debian GNU/Linux			jos(@)lemmerling(.nl)

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Re: group

[jos]

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003 jos@lemmerling.nl wrote:

> On Wed, 24 Dec 2003, dave wrote:
> 
> > I've made a group called everyone.  It has its own Sub-directory, 
> > "/home/everyone".  I have 3 users in the group.  Do I have to do 
> > anything else so everyone can share that Sub-directory?  Mandrake 9.2. 
> 
> Most likely you'll have to make sure that the group is accessable
> to the group everyone (chgrp everyone /home/everyone).

oops! typo...

This is what it should be:

Most likely you'll have to make sure that the directory /home/everyone is
accessable to the group everyone (chgrp everyone /home/everyone).


> The next step is to make it writeable to "everyone" : chmod 2770 everyone/ 

oops again! :(

"chmod 2770 /home/everyone/" is the correct answer...


> The "2" makes sure that all files and directories created in the directory
> /home/everyone are set to the group everyone (otherwise they would be set
> to the file-creators group and thus not writeable to other users).
> 
> The last step is to change the default umask to 002 instead of 022 so all
> files will have the permissions set correctly (-rw-rw-r-- instead of
> -rw-r--r--). If you don't do this, user1 cannot change the files user2 has
> created.
> 
> The default umask can be set in the users profile
> (/home/user1/.bash_profile) with the line "umask 002".
> 
> That should be all!
> 
> HTH


I'm going back to sleep now...  ;)


--
Jos Lemmerling on Debian GNU/Linux			jos(@)lemmerling(.nl)


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Re: group

[Dan Zlotnikov]

Quoting jos@lemmerling.nl:

> The last step is to change the default umask to 002 instead of 022 so all
> files will have the permissions set correctly (-rw-rw-r-- instead of
> -rw-r--r--). If you don't do this, user1 cannot change the files user2 has
> created.
> 
> The default umask can be set in the users profile
> (/home/user1/.bash_profile) with the line "umask 002".

Pardon me if I'm confused, but does that mean that any user can change the 
default umask at will?

Not to mention, this will apply to all of that user's files, not just the ones 
in /home/everyone/

"Early to bed and early to rise makes a man stupid and blind in the eyes."
--Mazer Rakham, from Orson Scott Card's "Ender's Game"




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Re: group

[Jos Lemmerling]

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, Dan Zlotnikov wrote:

> > The default umask can be set in the users profile
> > (/home/user1/.bash_profile) with the line "umask 002".
> 
> Pardon me if I'm confused, but does that mean that any user can change the 
> default umask at will?

Yes, that's correct. It's also possible to change the umask of all users
in /etc/profile . I just checked the possibility to apply a umask to a
single directory, but it doesn't seem to be possible (at least not on a
ext2/3 filesystem.

I came accross another option in the man-page:
If the directory /home/everyone is mounted on a seperate partition, the
option "grpid" can be used to avoid the use of the SST-bits.

> Not to mention, this will apply to all of that user's files, not just the ones 
> in /home/everyone/

Should that be a problem then? On my (Debian) systems the default group on
newly created files is the group of the user itself, so that doesn't make
any difference. Obviously it's another story when the default group isn't
its own usergroup.

What other option do you recommend then?


grtz

--
Jos Lemmerling on Debian GNU/Linux			jos(@)lemmerling(.nl)

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Re: group

[Dan Zlotnikov]

(disclaimer: If it sounds like I'm explaining things to a five-year-old, 
that's because I'm lost, not because I think you are)

Quoting Jos Lemmerling <jos@lemmerling.nl>:

> On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, Dan Zlotnikov wrote:
> 
> > > The default umask can be set in the users profile
> > > (/home/user1/.bash_profile) with the line "umask 002".
> > 
> > Pardon me if I'm confused, but does that mean that any user can change the
> 
> > default umask at will?
> 
> Yes, that's correct. It's also possible to change the umask of all users
> in /etc/profile . I just checked the possibility to apply a umask to a
> single directory, but it doesn't seem to be possible (at least not on a
> ext2/3 filesystem.

That's a tad unfortunate. The problem I'm having is as follows:

foo@alpha: vim Foo (write some text)

I didn't want to bother with new groups, so...
foo@alpha: chmod 777 Foo

foo@alpha: su bar
bar@alpha: vim /home/foo/Foo

Which works just fine, as expected.

umask 002 will set 775 on *all* of that user's files, not just the ones 
in /home/everyone/

> I came accross another option in the man-page:
> If the directory /home/everyone is mounted on a seperate partition, the
> option "grpid" can be used to avoid the use of the SST-bits.

Now *that* is elegant. Hell, I'd move the directory to a different partition, 
just so I could use this :)

> > Not to mention, this will apply to all of that user's files, not just the
> ones 
> > in /home/everyone/
> 
> Should that be a problem then? On my (Debian) systems the default group on
> newly created files is the group of the user itself, so that doesn't make
> any difference. Obviously it's another story when the default group isn't
> its own usergroup.

Ah. Point. So does that mean the user would still have to manually change the 
group of every file in /home/everyone/ to "everyone"?

> 
> What other option do you recommend then?

A login script that would sudo everything in /home/everyone/ to 775 whenever 
one of the users in said group logged in. Would that create problems with 
temporarily locked files, though?

Dan

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Re: group

[Jos Lemmerling]

On Thu, 25 Dec 2003, Dan Zlotnikov wrote:

> (disclaimer: If it sounds like I'm explaining things to a five-year-old, 
> that's because I'm lost, not because I think you are)

LOL

No, I'm seven years young...  ;)

> > Yes, that's correct. It's also possible to change the umask of all users
> > in /etc/profile . I just checked the possibility to apply a umask to a
> > single directory, but it doesn't seem to be possible (at least not on a
> > ext2/3 filesystem).
> 
> That's a tad unfortunate. The problem I'm having is as follows:
> 
> foo@alpha: vim Foo (write some text)
> 
> I didn't want to bother with new groups, so...
> foo@alpha: chmod 777 Foo
> 
> foo@alpha: su bar
> bar@alpha: vim /home/foo/Foo
> 
> Which works just fine, as expected.
> 
> umask 002 will set 775 on *all* of that user's files, not just the ones 
> in /home/everyone/

Only the newly created files.

If you have a problem like above, why not use:
"su -c 'vim /home/foo/Foo' foo"   as user bar? Saves a lot of typing!

> I came accross another option in the man-page:
> > If the directory /home/everyone is mounted on a seperate partition, the
> > option "grpid" can be used to avoid the use of the SST-bits.
> 
> Now *that* is elegant. Hell, I'd move the directory to a different partition, 
> just so I could use this :)

Common.. it ain't that much work! ;)

> > Should that be a problem then? On my (Debian) systems the default group on
> > newly created files is the group of the user itself, so that doesn't make
> > any difference. Obviously it's another story when the default group isn't
> > its own usergroup.
> 
> Ah. Point. So does that mean the user would still have to manually change the 
> group of every file in /home/everyone/ to "everyone"?

If you're not using the s-bit, yes. Or... if you umask 000 there will be
no problem reading and writing files without changing the group to
everyone, but that's kind of unsecure to do... ;)

> > What other option do you recommend then?
> 
> A login script that would sudo everything in /home/everyone/ to 775 whenever 
> one of the users in said group logged in. Would that create problems with 
> temporarily locked files, though?

Sudo everything in /home/everyone?? IIRC sudo allows the user to
*execute* a certain command as another user... It has nothing to do with
adjusting file-access itself; of course you can do a "sudo ls" and a "sudo
vim" etc. etc. but that's a lot of work and typing... :)

And you could ask yourself why the users do have seperate logins and not
just one login for all of them...


But if someone knows a way to automagicly set the default permissions on
files in a directory (just like the s-bit for groups does) and *not* using
the umask-thingy, I would like to know! (and not while using samba or an
FTP-daemon, they have their own options for this)


grtz

--
Jos Lemmerling on Debian GNU/Linux			jos(@)lemmerling(.nl)


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