user/e-mail name

user/e-mail name

[Peter]

Hi,

In Slackware9.1 my user name is peter and my e-mail address is heisspf@isp.net

Apparently mail I send arrives From: peter@isp.net. Therefore, when the 
recipient makes a "reply" the mail bounces since naturally peter@isp.net is 
not found.

My mail program is exmh.

Can that be corrected w/o changing my user name?

Thanks & regards

-- 
Peter
-- 
Peter

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Re: user/e-mail name

[pa3gcu]

On Wednesday 03 March 2004 08:48, Peter wrote:
> Hi,
>
> In Slackware9.1 my user name is peter and my e-mail address is
> heisspf@isp.net
>
> Apparently mail I send arrives From: peter@isp.net. Therefore, when the
> recipient makes a "reply" the mail bounces since naturally peter@isp.net is
> not found.

Yes i know, i tryed to send you a reply to your mail to me but it got bounced.

>
> My mail program is exmh.
>
> Can that be corrected w/o changing my user name?

First thing i would try is simply create a user account for heissp and add an 
alias in /etc/mail/aliases;

heissp:	peter
Save file and run;
newaliases

No doubt there are other ways to do it, but this seems a very simple and easy 
way to do it.

> Thanks & regards
>
> --
> Peter

-- 
If the Linux community is a bunch of theives because they
try to imitate windows programs, then the Windows community
is built on organized crime.

Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/



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Re: user/e-mail name

[pa3gcu]

On Wednesday 03 March 2004 15:05, pa3gcu wrote:
> On Wednesday 03 March 2004 08:48, Peter wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > In Slackware9.1 my user name is peter and my e-mail address is
> > heisspf@isp.net
> >
> > Apparently mail I send arrives From: peter@isp.net. Therefore, when the
> > recipient makes a "reply" the mail bounces since naturally peter@isp.net
> > is not found.
>
> Yes i know, i tryed to send you a reply to your mail to me but it got
> bounced.

Huum there is more going on here than you think Peter, 
Below is the text from the bounce, i notice the name = not peter@isp.net but 
peter@skyinet.net

This is the Postfix program at host newpop.skyinet.net.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

                        The Postfix program

<peter@skyinet.net>: unknown user: "peter@skyinet.net"

-- 
If the Linux community is a bunch of theives because they
try to imitate windows programs, then the Windows community
is built on organized crime.

Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/



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Re: user/e-mail name

[Peter]

Thanks to all!


pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl said:
> First thing i would try is simply create a user account for heissp and add an
>  alias in /etc/mail/aliases; 

Does not work.

Then I hacked around various files in /etc/nmh, all nothing doing.

Now I add "From: heisspf@skyinet" to the header in the mail and judging by the 
mail I sent to me it works.

I posted the question now to the list of exmh-users where the originator of 
exmh listen in. Will see what they have to say. So it seems that is not only a 
exmh specific problem.

Regards


-- 
Peter

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Re: user/e-mail name

[pa3gcu]

On Thursday 04 March 2004 05:45, Peter wrote:
> Thanks to all!
>
> pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl said:
> > First thing i would try is simply create a user account for heissp and
> > add an alias in /etc/mail/aliases;
>
> Does not work.

It will only work if you have an account or an alias on your providers site 
for heisspf.
So i suppose one should ask how do you recive mail directly on your machine, 
or does you mail go to your provider.
If its the latter and your account at your provider is "peter" then simply 
make a mail alias there and have the mail redirected to peter.

>
> Then I hacked around various files in /etc/nmh, all nothing doing.
>
> Now I add "From: heisspf@skyinet" to the header in the mail and judging by
> the mail I sent to me it works.

I presume that is a typo on your part Peter as it is NOT a valid email 
address.
I have tryed a test mail (or was it 2) cant remember to heisspf@skyinet.net
and they have not come back, (as yet).

>
> I posted the question now to the list of exmh-users where the originator of
> exmh listen in. Will see what they have to say. So it seems that is not
> only a exmh specific problem.
>
> Regards

-- 
If the Linux community is a bunch of theives because they
try to imitate windows programs, then the Windows community
is built on organized crime.

Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/



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Re: user/e-mail name

[Peter H.]

pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl said:
> It will only work if you have an account or an alias on your providers site
> for heisspf.
I do not have an account with my provider and get my mail directly even using 
different ISPs.

>> Now I add "From: heisspf@skyinet"

pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl said:
> I presume that is a typo on your part Peter as it is NOT a valid email
> address. I have tryed a test mail (or was it 2) cant remember to
> heisspf@skyinet.net and they have not come back, (as yet). 


Surly a typo I left out the .net.
Both mails arrived.

The suggestion of Richard using Reply-to: is not accepted with exmh.

I remember now several years ago I had asked the same question what the user 
name has to do with the e-mail name and did not get a satisfactory answer. I 
then just changed my user name to my my e-mail address name and whenever I 
changed my ISP I could keep the same name except last year the ISP did not 
accept then pfheiss and I changed to heisspf and had to change my user name as 
well. That was all in Red Hat.
Now in slackware I thought I had gotten away from this, apparently not. So on 
with From: in the header.

Since the mail program sylpheed nicely incorporates with exmh I could use it 
for sending mail. In sylpheed (Hal from HalTech listen) one can set-up several 
accounts with different user names and same ISP or different ISPs and can 
easily select which one to use to send mail with. The computer user name never 
shows up and the mail arrives with the From: always the account one has chosen.

Regards
-- 
Peter

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Re: user/e-mail name

[Ray Olszewski]

At 03:23 PM 3/5/2004 +0800, Peter H. wrote:

>pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl said:
> > It will only work if you have an account or an alias on your providers site
> > for heisspf.
>I do not have an account with my provider and get my mail directly even using
>different ISPs.

Peter -- this addendum to your report is a bit confusing.. How *do* you get 
your mail? That is, what do you mean by "directly"? I've been assuming (as 
have, I imagine, others) that you get your mail through an ISP (or, as you 
now remind us, several ISPs) using POP to download it (or, conceivably, IMAP).

In that case, you *do* need an account, or an alias to an account, in the 
e-mail name you use at each ISP ... even if it is not an account you use, 
or can use, to log in. More exactly, if you use the e-mail address 
"myname@myisp.com" and you wish to receive responses sent to that address, 
then the server "myisp.com" or its associated MX server needs to be able to 
process mail addressed to "myname" ... which, in the context of servicing 
POP clients, means it needs an account name associated with the name 
"myname". {Doesn't your POP client need to provide a userid and password to 
get mail?)

If you really get your mail in the way *I* would call "directly" -- that 
is, by running your own SMTP server that other MTAs connect to (as I do 
here) -- than any problems you are having involve your own setup, not your 
ISP's. To get help with it, you are going to need to tell us its details. 
But I doubt you meant "direct" in this sense ... I'd bet you use POP.

I am sorry that exmh apparently does not know how to provide a Reply-To: 
header, as you seem to say below. (Neither does my MUA, BTW, so it's not 
that unusual a limitation.) But use of that header really is the 
standards-based way to deal with the problem you seem to be reporting. 
Anything else is a workaround.

Intrinsically, the "user name" and the "e-mail name" need have nothing in 
common, on outgoing mail ... From: header spoofing in SPAM is the obvious 
illustration of this ... though some MTA authentication schemes (e.g., POP 
before SMTP) may limit the choice of e-mail name. For receiving e-mail, 
though, the receiving MTA at the endpoint of the SMTP connection must know 
what to do with the message, which typically means it is addressed either 
to a userid present on the system or to an alias associated with a userid 
present on the system. And on Linux systems (in contrast to, say, Windows 
systems), even the POP clients and MUAs will normally (are there *any* 
exceptions to this?) count on there being a userid or alias entry for each 
"e-mail name" they process incoming mail for.

And one technical distinction -- we have here been discussing the From: 
header in the visible message. At the SMTP level, that is just unprocessed 
text and can say anything that your e-mail client will put there. It is 
distinct from the From (no colon) header, which is part of the actual SMTP 
exchange ... the "MAIL From:" SMTP command ... though typically MUAs will 
make the two match. ISP authentication schemes, discussed above, typically 
affect the From header, not necessarily the From: header.

I hope that is a more satisfactory answer than what you got in the past. I 
am quite surprised that you did not get one when you asked before ... 
assuming you asked here on this list.


> >> Now I add "From: heisspf@skyinet"
>
>pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl said:
> > I presume that is a typo on your part Peter as it is NOT a valid email
> > address. I have tryed a test mail (or was it 2) cant remember to
> > heisspf@skyinet.net and they have not come back, (as yet).
>
>
>Surly a typo I left out the .net.
>Both mails arrived.
>
>The suggestion of Richard using Reply-to: is not accepted with exmh.
>
>I remember now several years ago I had asked the same question what the user
>name has to do with the e-mail name and did not get a satisfactory answer. I
>then just changed my user name to my my e-mail address name and whenever I
>changed my ISP I could keep the same name except last year the ISP did not
>accept then pfheiss and I changed to heisspf and had to change my user 
>name as
>well. That was all in Red Hat.
>Now in slackware I thought I had gotten away from this, apparently not. So on
>with From: in the header.
>
>Since the mail program sylpheed nicely incorporates with exmh I could use it
>for sending mail. In sylpheed (Hal from HalTech listen) one can set-up 
>several
>accounts with different user names and same ISP or different ISPs and can
>easily select which one to use to send mail with. The computer user name 
>never
>shows up and the mail arrives with the From: always the account one has 
>chosen.



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Re: user/e-mail name

[Peter H.]

Thanks Ray,

ray@comarre.com said:
> using.. How *do* you get  your mail? That is, what do you mean by "directly"?
> I've been assuming (as  have, I imagine, others) that you get your mail
> through an ISP (or, as you  now remind us, several ISPs) using POP

May be my confusing answer on how I receive my mail was in answer to Richards 
question which I apparently misunderstood thinking he meant that I receive my 
mail through a web mailer like operamail.com.

ray@comarre.com said:
> Doesn't your POP client need to provide a userid and password to get mail?

Yes it does. However, I can use other ISPs than the one I have an account with 
to fetch my mail.

ray@comarre.com said:
> Intrinsically, the "user name" and the "e-mail name" need have nothing in
> common, on outgoing mail

Then why do those stupid programs (exmh, pine, kmail) insist that my mail 
comes from peter and not from heisspf?

Where do they pick-up that peter?

I am using postfix now, before sendmail. In /etc/postfix/main.cf it says 
clearly: myhostname = heisspf

Only sylpheed does it right. The suggestion of Peter Gantner to put 
"sendmail-path=/usr/bin/sendmail -t -f my.realemail@isp.net" into .pinerc 
changed nothing.

ray@comarre.com said:
> I hope that is a more satisfactory answer than what you got in the past. I
> am quite surprised that you did not get one when you asked before ...
> assuming you asked here on this list.

Yes it is and was except I seem to be too dumb to get it done right.

Regards


-- 
Peter

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Re: user/e-mail name

[Ray Olszewski]

At 09:47 AM 3/7/2004 +0800, Peter H. wrote:
[...]
>ray@comarre.com said:
> > Intrinsically, the "user name" and the "e-mail name" need have nothing in
> > common, on outgoing mail
>
>Then why do those stupid programs (exmh, pine, kmail) insist that my mail
>comes from peter and not from heisspf?
>
>Where do they pick-up that peter?

They get it from the userid you are logged in as, of course. Although, as I 
said before, there is no ***intrinsic*** connection between a user name and 
an e-mail name, in practice on Unix/Linux systems the two are usually 
related ... since to receive mail on that system, you need either a userid 
or an alias for the To: user name. So just about any Linux-based e-mail 
client will *default* to using the current userid for mail.

I don't recall offhand which Linux MUAs allow you to set the From: address 
(or specify a Reply-To: address) that is different from your current userid 
... but that is simply an application issue that is up to the individual 
program writer. But see below for more.

>I am using postfix now, before sendmail. In /etc/postfix/main.cf it says
>clearly: myhostname = heisspf
>
>Only sylpheed does it right. The suggestion of Peter Gantner to put
>"sendmail-path=/usr/bin/sendmail -t -f my.realemail@isp.net" into .pinerc
>changed nothing.

Well, I did about 5 minutes of Googling on pine, and I found a reference 
that suggested this entry in .pinerc --

         customized-hdrs=From: Foo Foo <foofoo@foofoo.org>

The reference URL is 
http://www.die.net/doc/linux/HOWTO/mini/Pine-Exchange/example.html . I 
can't personally vouch for it, though. THe example does not indicate if it 
can be used to add a Reply-To: header.

The man page for elm (found at the same site as above) says that it uses an 
environmant variable "REPLYTO", so I infer it supports a Reply-To: header, 
and "USER", which is described unclearly but may affect the From: header.

FInally, the man page for exmh includes this vague reference:

"Aliases  User Interface.  A browser for your MH aliases lets you define
        new aliases and insert aliases into mail messages."

You might want to look into this option to see if it does what you desire.



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Re: user/e-mail name

[pa3gcu]

On Sunday 07 March 2004 16:46, Ray Olszewski wrote:
> The man page for elm (found at the same site as above) says that it uses an
> environmant variable "REPLYTO", so I infer it supports a Reply-To: header,
> and "USER", which is described unclearly but may affect the From: header.

I used to use this , simply add REPLYTO in your .profile or .bash_profile .
I belive the USER is effective in the same mannor.

-- 
If the Linux community is a bunch of theives because they
try to imitate windows programs, then the Windows community
is built on organized crime.

Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/



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Re: user/e-mail name

[Peter H.]

OK we can say then that in Linux an e-mail program will use the login name as 
the host name for e-mailing unless a program like sylpheed has it built-in not 
to do so or one takes special efforts to pinch a program not to do it. Which 
means the easiest way out is to use ones 'login name' as 'host name' or 
vis-versa.


ray@comarre.com said:
> the man page for exmh includes this vague reference:
> "Aliases  User Interface.  A browser for your MH aliases lets you define
>         new aliases and insert aliases into mail messages."

I am aware of this feature and use it when I put the From: alias in the 
header. And I was mistaken earlier that exmh will not accept Reply-To:. I must 
have made a typo when I tried it. Then based on your earlier mail it is better 
to use Reply-To: than From: in the mail header.

Thanks & regards
-- 
Peter



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Re: user/e-mail name

[chuck gelm]

Ray Olszewski wrote:
> At 09:47 AM 3/7/2004 +0800, Peter H. wrote:
> [...]
> 
>> ray@comarre.com said:
>> > Intrinsically, the "user name" and the "e-mail name" need have 
>> nothing in
>> > common, on outgoing mail
>>
>> Then why do those stupid programs (exmh, pine, kmail) insist that my mail
>> comes from peter and not from heisspf?
>>
>> Where do they pick-up that peter?
> 
> 
> They get it from the userid you are logged in as, of course. Although, 
> as I said before, there is no ***intrinsic*** connection between a user 
> name and an e-mail name, in practice on Unix/Linux systems the two are 
> usually related ... since to receive mail on that system, you need 
> either a userid or an alias for the To: user name. So just about any 
> Linux-based e-mail client will *default* to using the current userid for 
> mail.
> 
> I don't recall offhand which Linux MUAs allow you to set the From: 
> address (or specify a Reply-To: address) that is different from your 
> current userid ... but that is simply an application issue that is up to 
> the individual program writer. But see below for more.

Howdy, Y'all:

  I am logged on as 'gelmce' and my ISP knows me as
gelmce-at-ameritech-dot-net.  I think this is shown to come from
chuck-at-gelm-dot-[org,net].  I am using:
Mozilla 1.4
Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030915
as a MUA.

HTH, Chuck

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Re: user/e-mail name

[Ray Olszewski]

At 03:48 PM 3/3/2004 +0800, Peter wrote:
>Hi,
>
>In Slackware9.1 my user name is peter and my e-mail address is heisspf@isp.net
>
>Apparently mail I send arrives From: peter@isp.net. Therefore, when the
>recipient makes a "reply" the mail bounces since naturally peter@isp.net is
>not found.
>
>My mail program is exmh.
>
>Can that be corrected w/o changing my user name?

Richard and Hal gave you good technical replies, but they missed one 
possibility. This is a classic case for the use of a Reply-to: header in 
your messages. You might want to see either if exmh supports that option, 
or if you can substirute a different MUA that does.



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Re: user/e-mail name

[Peter Gantner]

On Wednesday, the 3rd of March, Ray Olszewski thusly spake:

> At 03:48 PM 3/3/2004 +0800, Peter wrote:
> >Hi,
> >
> >In Slackware9.1 my user name is peter and my e-mail address is heisspf@isp.net
> >
> >Apparently mail I send arrives From: peter@isp.net. Therefore, when the
> >recipient makes a "reply" the mail bounces since naturally peter@isp.net is
> >not found.
> >
> >My mail program is exmh.
> >
> >Can that be corrected w/o changing my user name?
> 
> Richard and Hal gave you good technical replies, but they missed one 
> possibility. This is a classic case for the use of a Reply-to: header in 
> your messages. You might want to see either if exmh supports that option, 
> or if you can substirute a different MUA that does.

Isn't that what the -f option to sendmail does? IIRC this sets the 
From: field to the specified name.

I know you can set the command the client uses to send mail in 
pinerc like this: sendmail-path=/usr/bin/sendmail -t -f my.realemail@isp.net
I'm sure similar is possible with mutt too.

It's still possible that the MTA munges or rejects this afterwards, 
but it should be a good start. 

hth,
	Peter G.

PS: note that I'm a different Peter! :)


-- 
"I do not think the way you think I think." 
    -- Kai, last of the Brunnen G
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Re: user/e-mail name

[Hal MacArgle]

This bounced of course; your return address..
<peter@skyinet.net>: unknown user: "peter@skyinet.net"

Greetings:  Glad that some things, finally, go right... Re: your
printer card arrival..

Re: usernames, etc.. Richard has already replied..

You're "suffering" with the same thing I have to fight every day..

Don't know about exmh but, in my case, I have to set up the mailer,
in my case Mutt, with Reply To: haltec@kvinet.com.. Then I have to
compile Sendmail 8.11.x with the features of MASQUERADE_AS and
MASQUERADE_ENVELOPE, so that the outgoing mail seems to be coming
from kvinet.com, rather than my machines actual  hostname
lnx2.w8mch.ampr.org... Since I have five user names and one ISP, each
mailer for each user has to be set up with: <user>@kvinet.com, the
MASQUERADE_AS taking care of the rest of the address.. Does this make
any sense??

I've noticed that the new Sendmail 8.12.XX series does not support
MASQUERADE, probably because of security, whatever..

Someone with more exmh smarts might help and they may call it
something like ALIAS - dunno.... Is exmh a combination MUA and MTA??
I'm not sure as I think I tried it years ago, for some reason, and it
didn't click with me.. Usually the Mailer, MUA, and the Mail Transfer
Agent are different programs.. 

It's a tough nut and know I'm not much help but I spent several days
trying PostFix and QMail to solve the Sendmail problem - to no
avail.. I'm getting too old for this stuff, methinks.. <grin>


    Hal - in Terra Alta, WV - Slackware GNU/Linux 9.0   (2.4.20)
		Utrum Per Hebdomadem Perveniam

On 03-03, Peter wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In Slackware9.1 my user name is peter and my e-mail address is heisspf@isp.net
> 
> Apparently mail I send arrives From: peter@isp.net. Therefore, when the 
> recipient makes a "reply" the mail bounces since naturally peter@isp.net is 
> not found.
> 
> My mail program is exmh.
> 
> Can that be corrected w/o changing my user name?
> 
> Thanks & regards
> 
> -- 
> Peter
> -- 
> Peter
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Re: user/e-mail name

[Peter]

Hi,

I was finally able to tweak exmh to put
"Reply-To: myname@myisp.net" automatically into the header of outgoing mail. I 
had to edit .mh_profile in an unusual way to be able to read 
/etc/nmh/components. That was never necessary in RedHat that exmh could not 
read that file.

Regards
-- 
Peter

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