TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[geoff bagley]

I have a TATUNG  (Vibrant) VL7A 17" TFT LCD display.

It works very well on SuSE 8.0 Linux at 1280 by 1024 pixels.

SuSE recognizes it and auto-configures.

However, I can't find a way to make it work on Debian GNU/Linux 3.0
(Woody).  As you may imagine, it doesn't appear in the list of supported
displays.   I have so far tried vesa, but with no luck.

I can get Mutt,  and also Midnight-Commander to work OK, but I guess
without using  X.

Regards
-- 
Geoff Bagley
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Re: TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[Ray Olszewski]

At 05:20 PM 8/30/2003 +0200, geoff bagley wrote:

>I have a TATUNG  (Vibrant) VL7A 17" TFT LCD display.
>
>It works very well on SuSE 8.0 Linux at 1280 by 1024 pixels.
>
>SuSE recognizes it and auto-configures.
>
>However, I can't find a way to make it work on Debian GNU/Linux 3.0
>(Woody).  As you may imagine, it doesn't appear in the list of supported
>displays.   I have so far tried vesa, but with no luck.
>
>I can get Mutt,  and also Midnight-Commander to work OK, but I guess
>without using  X.

When SuSE "recognizes" it, what does it then "auto-configure" it *as*? SuSE 
will be writing an XF86Config-4 file that describes the configuration ... 
and, just possibly, setting up some kernel modules (a framebuffer, maybe) 
... and you should be able to use its results to guide you in setting up Woody.

BTW, selections like vesa choose video cards, not displays. What video card 
(or chipset, if this is a laptop) are you using?



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Re: TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[geoff bagley]

>When SuSE "recognizes" it, what does it then "auto-configure" it *as*? SuSE 
>will be writing an XF86Config-4 file that describes the configuration ... 
>and, just possibly, setting up some kernel modules (a framebuffer, maybe) 
>... and you should be able to use its results to guide you in setting up Woody.

Thank you for the tip.  I will re-install SuSE and check that out.

>
>BTW, selections like vesa choose video cards, not displays. What video card 
>(or chipset, if this is a laptop) are you using?

No, it is not a laptop - it is a stand alone 17" TFT panel display.
It plugs into a parallel port just like a normal monitor.

I will have a look at what the video card is and select that.  
Maybe that is the answer.
>
>
Best regards.
-- 
geoff bagley
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Re: TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[Ray Olszewski]

At 07:15 PM 8/30/2003 +0200, geoff bagley wrote:
> >When SuSE "recognizes" it, what does it then "auto-configure" it *as*? SuSE
> >will be writing an XF86Config-4 file that describes the configuration ...
> >and, just possibly, setting up some kernel modules (a framebuffer, maybe)
> >... and you should be able to use its results to guide you in setting up 
> Woody.
>
>Thank you for the tip.  I will re-install SuSE and check that out.
>
> >
> >BTW, selections like vesa choose video cards, not displays. What video card
> >(or chipset, if this is a laptop) are you using?
>
>No, it is not a laptop - it is a stand alone 17" TFT panel display.
>It plugs into a parallel port just like a normal monitor.

I assume you mean a VGA port.

>I will have a look at what the video card is and select that.
>Maybe that is the answer.

It should be at least part of the answer. I believe TFT displays do have 
some special requirements that can affect Modeline entries, but I don't 
know the details. As you might imagine, they are most discussed in the 
context of laptops, where dealing with the quirks of LCD displays has been 
a requirement for years.





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Re: TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[Heimo Claasen]

There#s a bug (sorry, Ray) win the Debian/Woody's standard "distro"
installation routine: When it comes to the video card's memory to
enter, anything else but "1024" (KB) wouldn't get you nowhere with
whatever of the not-listed brands of card/monitor combines.

Inputting that value would eventually get X working - but definitely not
at the best screen resolution.

(After weeks of worktime wasted we gave up on making Debian/Woody work
with a combine of a quite renowned video card and ditto high-res monitor;
the "commercial" distros - Mandrake, SuSE, RH - hadn't any problem with
that.)

// Heimo Claasen // <hammer at revobild dot net> // Brussels 2003-08-31
The WebPlace of ReRead - and much to read  ==>  http://www.revobild.net

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Re: TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[geoff bagley]

>(After weeks of worktime wasted we gave up on making Debian/Woody work
>with a combine of a quite renowned video card and ditto high-res monitor;
>the "commercial" distros - Mandrake, SuSE, RH - hadn't any problem with
>that.)
Thanks to you both.  I  am sorry that your efforts were not rewarded.
Is there a simple reason why the "commercial distros" are able to do
this ?  Maybe they are using non-GPL  software that we would not wish to
see in Debian.

Is the problem only with Woody ?
How will other versions of Debian cope with this ?

Best regards
-- 
Geoff Bagley
G3FHL
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Re: TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[Ray Olszewski]

At 09:37 AM 8/31/2003 +0200, geoff bagley wrote:
> >(After weeks of worktime wasted we gave up on making Debian/Woody work
> >with a combine of a quite renowned video card and ditto high-res monitor;
> >the "commercial" distros - Mandrake, SuSE, RH - hadn't any problem with
> >that.)
>Thanks to you both.  I  am sorry that your efforts were not rewarded.
>Is there a simple reason why the "commercial distros" are able to do
>this ?  Maybe they are using non-GPL  software that we would not wish to
>see in Debian.
>
>Is the problem only with Woody ?
>How will other versions of Debian cope with this ?


I haven't myself run into the problem that Heimo describes, but I would 
predict that other versions of Debian (Sid, anyway) would fare as badly as 
Woody in this respect. Debian's hardware autodetect capability is close to 
nonexistant. That's why I suggested bypassing its X setup routines 
entirely, in favor of creating XF86Config-4 manually, based on the file a 
SuSE install produces.

Still, whether the problem Heimo described will affect *you* or not remains 
unknown, since you have not told us what video card you are using. It's 
been some months since I last did an X install, but as I recall (on Sid, 
anyway) the video card and monitor get specified separately, not in 
combination. And anything really unusual about your system is likely to be 
in the monitor, not the video card, at least from the way you've describef 
things so far.





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Re: TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[geoff bagley]

> Debian's hardware autodetect capability is close to 
>nonexistant. That's why I suggested bypassing its X setup routines 
>entirely, in favor of creating XF86Config-4 manually, based on the file a 
>SuSE install produces.

Thank you for all the help.  I will try doing it manually,  but have had
to defer that project due to embarking on some hardware improvements.

I may even move that 17" TFT screen across onto this  machine, a 600MHz
Pentium III,  which I have found to be very reliable, and which has
three hard drives and a DVD drive.

This means that I can then use SuSE and Woody on the same machine with
everything equal.

Best wishes
-- 
Geoff Bagley
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Re: TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[Heimo Claasen]

Geoff -

> Is there a simple reason why the "commercial distros" are able to do
> this ?  Maybe they are using non-GPL  software that we would not wish to
> see in Debian.

Me newbie cannot see the difference - it seems not a problem of proprietary
drivers (many of the video cards' are that in any case, as the chips
are firmware) - as much I can see is that both Debian and Mandrake, for
instance, use the same "nv" driver for the Nvidia TNT2 chip (one of the
bones of contention). Then why couldn't we arrive at having the full high
resolution scale working with the monitor(s) ? There, the spec.s and
interfaces are broadly open, so that's no so much of an issue. </sigh>

// Heimo Claasen // <hammer at revobild dot net> // Brussels 2003-09-01
The WebPlace of ReRead - and much to read  ==>  http://www.revobild.net

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Re: TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[pa3gcu]

On Thursday 01 January 1970 01:00, Heimo Claasen wrote:
> Geoff -
>
> > Is there a simple reason why the "commercial distros" are able to do
> > this ?  Maybe they are using non-GPL  software that we would not wish to
> > see in Debian.

One would be well advised here to check for differanies in the XF86Config 
file,  it may well be XF86Config-4 on your system, there will be differancies 
otherwise it "should" work in the same manor on both systems. 

Check for things like;

HorizSync rate
VertRefresh rate
ModeLine definions

Resolution sizes under "Section Screen".

Considering someone said "nv" driver, check that modiules such as;

dbe
clx
and font modules are correct.

If it works to your likeing on one system then it "should" work the same on 
another system "providing" one configure's it properly.

Another thing is i have not followed this thread fully so forgive me if 
someone else has pointed this out.

-- 
If the Linux community is a bunch of theives because they
try to imitate windows programs, then the Windows community
is built on organized crime.

Regards Richard
pa3gcu@zeelandnet.nl
http://people.zeelandnet.nl/pa3gcu/



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Re: TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[Ray Olszewski]

At , Heimo Claasen wrote:
>Geoff -
>
> > Is there a simple reason why the "commercial distros" are able to do
> > this ?  Maybe they are using non-GPL  software that we would not wish to
> > see in Debian.
>
>Me newbie cannot see the difference - it seems not a problem of proprietary
>drivers (many of the video cards' are that in any case, as the chips
>are firmware) - as much I can see is that both Debian and Mandrake, for
>instance, use the same "nv" driver for the Nvidia TNT2 chip (one of the
>bones of contention). Then why couldn't we arrive at having the full high
>resolution scale working with the monitor(s) ? There, the spec.s and
>interfaces are broadly open, so that's no so much of an issue. </sigh>


Since the original question in this thread involved a TFT flat-panel 
display with an unnamed video card, I didn't focus before on your technical 
comment (or, as you call it, your "bone of contention"), Heimo. As regards 
it, you haven't described the problem in enough detail to get help with it.

 From what you did write, I inferred that your problem (as distinct from 
the original poster's) was with the setup script in the Debian X package 
(probably xfree86-xserver), not with the underlying X server itself. And as 
I said in response, it's well known that Debian installers are primitive 
compared to the ones with many of the commercial distros (I think the 
original poster was comparing Debian to Red Hat). Its something that Debian 
users learn to live with, though not to brag about.

As regards the particular chipset you had trouble with, it is worth noting 
that there are two choices for nVidia cards in X -- the "nv" driver that is 
part of standard XFree86, and the "nvidia" driver that is available from 
nVidia and is not free software. Debian does not ship the latter driver -- 
despite its technical superiority with many nVidia cards (I don't know 
specifically about yours; I use it here with several GeForce-based cards 
that offer TV out), its failure to meet the DFSG means Debian does not 
include it (but I'm told that some other distros do ship with it, and that 
nVidia has licensed it in a way that permits some redistribution).

But really, without a description of the problem that includes some 
technical details, neither I nor anyone else can really give you good 
advice about it. Was I wrong, for example, in thinking that the problem was 
in the setup script (that is, that it creates an XF86Config-4 file with 
errors)? What version of XFree86 (and of Debian, for that matter) was 
involved in your attempts? How long ago did you try (like all distros, 
Debian has transient problems, ones that get fixed, especially in Unstable)?



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Re: TFT display on Debian GNU/Linux

[Heimo Claasen]

It was indeed the Debian setup script that posed the problem, Ray.
I think we tried just every combination of including/excluding any of
the specific modules; doctored the X-configuration files etc. That was
now some month ago (March/April); in the meantime I've thrown away most
of the notes on all this. (Guarded the ones on the dubious video RAM
entry: it's quite possible that the problem is there, as resolutions
from a certain threshold on nay need sufficient video memory to allow for
the corresponding mode-lines in the config.)

BTW, both Debian-3.0/Woody and Mandrake-8.2 used the generic "nv" driver.
Thus the difference wasn't there either.  We just couldn't find out where
the glitch was with Debian.

// Heimo Claasen // <hammer at revobild dot net> // Brussels 2003-09-05
The WebPlace of ReRead - and much to read  ==>  http://www.revobild.net

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