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From: Trond Myklebust <trond.myklebust@fys.uio.no>
To: Greg Banks <gnb-xTcybq6BZ68@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Brian R Cowan <brcowan@us.ibm.com>,
	Chuck Lever <chuck.lever@oracle.com>,
	linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org, linux-nfs-owner@vger.kernel.org,
	Peter Staubach <staubach@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: Read/Write NFS I/O performance degraded by FLUSH_STABLE page flushing
Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 08:26:03 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <1243686363.5209.16.camel@heimdal.trondhjem.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <ac442c870905291722x1ec811b2sda997d464898fcda-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>

On Sat, 2009-05-30 at 10:22 +1000, Greg Banks wrote:
> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 3:35 AM, Trond Myklebust
> <trond.myklebust@fys.uio.no> wrote:
> > On Fri, 2009-05-29 at 13:25 -0400, Brian R Cowan wrote:
> >>
> >
> > What are you smoking? There is _NO_DIFFERENCE_ between what the server
> > is supposed to do when sent a single stable write, and what it is
> > supposed to do when sent an unstable write plus a commit. BOTH cases are
> > supposed to result in the server writing the data to stable storage
> > before the stable write / commit is allowed to return a reply.
> 
> This probably makes no difference to the discussion, but for a Linux
> server there is a subtle difference between what the server is
> supposed to do and what it actually does.
> 
> For a stable WRITE rpc, the Linux server sets O_SYNC in the struct
> file during the vfs_writev() call and expects the underlying
> filesystem to obey that flag and flush the data to disk.  For a COMMIT
> rpc, the Linux server uses the underlying filesystem's f_op->fsync
> instead.  This results in some potential differences:
> 
>  * The underlying filesystem might be broken in one code path and not
> the other (e.g. ignoring O_SYNC in f_op->{aio_,}write or silently
> failing in f_op->fsync).  These kinds of bugs tend to be subtle
> because in the absence of a crash they affect only the timing of IO
> and so they might not be noticed.
> 
>  * The underlying filesystem might be doing more or better things in
> one or the other code paths e.g. optimising allocations.
> 
>  * The Linux NFS server ignores the byte range in the COMMIT rpc and
> flushes the whole file (I suspect this is a historical accident rather
> than deliberate policy).  If there is other dirty data on that file
> server-side, that other data will be written too before the COMMIT
> reply is sent.  This may have a performance impact, depending on the
> workload.
> 
> > The extra RPC round trip (+ parsing overhead ++++) due to the commit
> > call is the _only_ difference.
> 
> This is almost completely true.  If the server behaved ideally and
> predictably, this would be completely true.
> 
> </pedant>
> 

Firstly, the server only uses O_SYNC if you turn off write gathering
(a.k.a. the 'wdelay' option). The default behaviour for the Linux nfs
server is to always try write gathering and hence no O_SYNC.

Secondly, even if it were the case, then this does not justify changing
the client behaviour. The NFS protocol does not mandate, or even
recommend that the server use O_SYNC. All it says is that a stable write
and an unstable write+commit should both have the same result: namely
that the data+metadata must have been flushed to stable storage. The
protocol spec leaves it as an exercise to the server implementer to do
this as efficiently as possible.


  Trond


  parent reply	other threads:[~2009-05-30 12:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 94+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-04-30 20:12 Read/Write NFS I/O performance degraded by FLUSH_STABLE page flushing Brian R Cowan
2009-04-30 20:25 ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-04-30 20:28 ` Chuck Lever
2009-04-30 20:41   ` Peter Staubach
2009-04-30 21:13     ` Chuck Lever
2009-04-30 21:23     ` Trond Myklebust
2009-05-01 16:39       ` Brian R Cowan
     [not found]       ` <1241126587.15476.62.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-05-29 15:55         ` Brian R Cowan
2009-05-29 16:46           ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]             ` <1243615595.7155.48.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-05-29 17:25               ` Brian R Cowan
2009-05-29 17:35                 ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                   ` <1243618500.7155.56.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-05-30  0:22                     ` Greg Banks
     [not found]                       ` <ac442c870905291722x1ec811b2sda997d464898fcda-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2009-05-30  7:57                         ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-06-01 22:30                           ` J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-05 14:54                             ` Christoph Hellwig
2009-06-05 16:01                               ` J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-05 16:12                               ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                 ` <1244218328.5410.38.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-06-05 19:54                                   ` J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-05 21:21                                     ` Trond Myklebust
2009-05-30 12:26                         ` Trond Myklebust [this message]
     [not found]                           ` <1243686363.5209.16.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-05-30 12:43                             ` Trond Myklebust
2009-05-30 13:02                             ` Greg Banks
     [not found]                               ` <ac442c870905300602v6950ec42y5195d2d6ea7dd4c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org>
2009-06-01 22:30                                 ` J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-02 15:00                                 ` Chuck Lever
2009-06-02 17:27                                   ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                     ` <1243963631.4868.124.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-06-02 18:15                                       ` Chuck Lever
2009-06-03 16:22                                       ` Carlos Carvalho
2009-06-03 17:10                                         ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                           ` <OFB53BFCCB.0CEC7A7E-ON852575C <1244138698.5203.59.camel@heimdal.trondhjem.org>
2009-06-03 21:28                                           ` Dean Hildebrand
2009-06-04  2:16                                             ` Carlos Carvalho
2009-06-04 17:42                                           ` Brian R Cowan
2009-06-04 18:04                                             ` Trond Myklebust
2009-06-04 20:43                                               ` Link performance over NFS degraded in RHEL5. -- was : " Brian R Cowan
2009-06-04 20:57                                                 ` Trond Myklebust
2009-06-04 21:30                                                   ` Brian R Cowan
2009-06-04 21:48                                                     ` Trond Myklebust
2009-06-04 21:07                                                 ` Peter Staubach
2009-06-04 21:39                                                   ` Brian R Cowan
2009-06-05 11:35                                                 ` Steve Dickson
2009-06-05 12:46                                                   ` Trond Myklebust
2009-06-05 13:03                                                     ` Brian R Cowan
2009-06-05 13:05                                                   ` Tom Talpey
     [not found]                                                   ` <4A29144A.6030405@gmail.com>
2009-06-05 13:30                                                     ` Steve Dickson
2009-06-05 13:52                                                       ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                         ` <1244209956.5410.33.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-06-05 13:57                                                           ` Steve Dickson
     [not found]                                                             ` <4A29243F.8080008-AfCzQyP5zfLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2009-06-05 16:05                                                               ` J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-05 16:35                                                                 ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                                   ` <1244219715.5410.40.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-06-15 23:08                                                                     ` J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-16  0:21                                                                       ` NeilBrown
     [not found]                                                                         ` <99d4545537613ce76040d3655b78bdb7.squirrel-eq65iwfR9nKIECXXMXunQA@public.gmane.org>
2009-06-16  0:33                                                                           ` J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-16  0:50                                                                             ` NeilBrown
     [not found]                                                                               ` <02ada87c636e1088e9365a3cbea301e7.squirrel-eq65iwfR9nKIECXXMXunQA@public.gmane.org>
2009-06-16  0:55                                                                                 ` J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-17 16:54                                                                                   ` J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-17 16:59                                                                                     ` [PATCH 1/3] nfsd: track last inode only in use_wgather case J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-17 16:59                                                                                       ` [PATCH 2/3] nfsd: Pull write-gathering code out of nfsd_vfs_write J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-17 16:59                                                                                         ` [PATCH 3/3] nfsd: minor nfsd_vfs_write cleanup J. Bruce Fields
2009-06-16  0:32                                                                       ` Link performance over NFS degraded in RHEL5. -- was : Read/Write NFS I/O performance degraded by FLUSH_STABLE page flushing Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                                         ` <1245112324.7470.7.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-06-16  2:02                                                                           ` J. Bruce Fields
     [not found]                                                     ` <4A291D83.1000508@RedHat.com>
2009-06-05 13:50                                                       ` Tom Talpey
2009-06-05 13:54                                                         ` Trond Myklebust
2009-06-05 13:58                                                           ` Tom Talpey
2009-06-05 13:56                                                   ` Brian R Cowan
2009-06-24 19:54                                               ` [PATCH] read-modify-write page updating Peter Staubach
2009-06-25 17:13                                                 ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                   ` <1245950029.4913.17.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-07-09 13:59                                                     ` Peter Staubach
2009-07-09 14:12                                                 ` [PATCH v2] " Peter Staubach
2009-07-09 15:39                                                   ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                                     ` <1247153972.5766.15.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-07-10 15:57                                                       ` Peter Staubach
2009-07-10 17:22                                                         ` J. Bruce Fields
2009-08-04 17:52                                                   ` [PATCH v3] " Peter Staubach
2009-08-05  0:50                                                     ` Trond Myklebust
2009-05-29 17:48               ` Read/Write NFS I/O performance degraded by FLUSH_STABLE page flushing Peter Staubach
2009-05-29 18:21                 ` Trond Myklebust
2009-05-29 17:01           ` Chuck Lever
2009-05-29 17:38             ` Brian R Cowan
2009-05-29 17:42               ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                 ` <1243618968.7155.60.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-05-29 17:47                   ` Chuck Lever
2009-05-29 18:15                     ` Trond Myklebust
2009-05-29 17:51                   ` Peter Staubach
2009-05-29 18:25                     ` Brian R Cowan
2009-05-29 18:43                     ` Trond Myklebust
2009-05-29 17:55                   ` Brian R Cowan
2009-05-29 18:07                     ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                       ` <1243620455.7155.80.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-05-29 18:18                         ` Brian R Cowan
2009-05-29 18:29                           ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                             ` <1243621769.7155.97.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-05-29 20:09                               ` Brian R Cowan
2009-05-29 20:21                                 ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                   ` <1243628519.7155.150.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-05-29 21:55                                     ` Brian R Cowan
2009-05-29 22:03                                       ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                   ` <OFBB9B2C07.CC3D028B-ON852575C5. <1243634634.7155.160.camel@heimdal.trondhjem.org>
     [not found]                                     ` <1243634634.7155.160.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-05-29 22:20                                       ` Brian R Cowan
2009-05-29 22:36                                         ` Trond Myklebust
     [not found]                                     ` <OF061E0258.9581352B-ON852575C <1243636593.7155.188.camel@heimdal.trondhjem.org>
     [not found]                                       ` <1243636593.7155.188.camel-rJ7iovZKK19ZJLDQqaL3InhyD016LWXt@public.gmane.org>
2009-05-29 23:02                                         ` Brian R Cowan
2009-05-29 23:13                                           ` Trond Myklebust
2009-05-29 17:57                   ` Trond Myklebust

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