RE: 3 bugs with UDP mounts

RE: 3 bugs with UDP mounts

[Andrew Ryan]

At 06:23 PM 4/22/02 -0700, Lever, Charles wrote:
>for the whole list:  when reporting issues against NetApp filers,
>please mention the OnTap version and filer hardware if you can...
>that would help us a lot!  thanks!

Sorry: F820, 6.1.2R3.


> > network: 100baseTx-FD on client, gigE-FD on server
> >
> > 1. UDP read performance (v2 and v3) on large files is really
> > poor. [....]
> > I can get excellent read performance, as long as the files
> > are relatively small.
>
>you are probably hitting the network speed step down between
>the GbE filer and the 100Mb client.  the first packet loss
>will cause your read throughput to drop.  i'll bet your
>small file knee occurs right about at the size of your switch's
>memory buffer.

I'm not seeing any packet loss on client or server acc. to interface 
statistics. How would I find this out? I am seeing a 2 second delay between 
reads when I turn on NFS debugging. A thread ("2.4.18: NFS_ALL patch 
greatly hurting UDP speed") mentioned this same delay, so I'm probably 
running into the same problem.

BTW, I did more performance tests. If I set rsize and wsize to 1024 or 
2048, I can get acceptable performance with NFS+UDP. If I go to 4096 or 
higher, performance drops immediately to an unacceptable level.


>have you tried this test with TCP?

Yeah, TCP performance is fine. It's the hangs under 2.4.17+NFS-ALL 
(described in an earlier mail) that are killing me. The hangs seem to have 
gone away in 2.4.19pre7+NFS-ALL, but I need more time to test all of 
2.4.19pre7 in my environment to make sure it holds up OK.



>Solaris may have workarounds (like a loose interpretation of
>Van Jacobsen) or bugs that allow this to work well.  just a guess.

Would it be possible -- via a kernel option or mount option -- to control 
the behavior in the Linux client as well so that high performance can be 
achieved on a Linux NFS client with high block sizes and UDP? Mixed 
100/1000 networks are becoming more of a reality and NFS/TCP, while having 
gotten tremendously better in the last year or so, is still a work in 
progress, and it's nice to have another acceptable option for mounting.

Solaris has clearly solved this problem somehow -- it would be nice if 
linux could as well.


>we have filers mounted with UDP and r/wsize=32K from a R7.2 system
>running 2.4.19pre.  NFS over UDP allows r/wsize up to 32K.

Right, my bad. I was confused by a day of too many mounts and umounts and 
too little stuff working properly. 32k should have been fine.


>the mismatch between the requested size and the reported mount
>options i have never seen before, and looks like a bug to me.
>your version of mount may not allow more than 8k r/wsize because
>of old limitations on the Linux server?

I'm using mount 2.11g, as supplied with RH 7.2. Is there a newer mount 
program I should be using? Can others duplicate this bug?


thanks,
andrew


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Re: 3 bugs with UDP mounts

[Ion Badulescu]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 00:37:15 -0700, Andrew Ryan <andrewr@nam-shub.com> wrote:

> Would it be possible -- via a kernel option or mount option -- to control 
> the behavior in the Linux client as well so that high performance can be 
> achieved on a Linux NFS client with high block sizes and UDP? Mixed 
> 100/1000 networks are becoming more of a reality and NFS/TCP, while having 
> gotten tremendously better in the last year or so, is still a work in 
> progress, and it's nice to have another acceptable option for mounting.
> 
> Solaris has clearly solved this problem somehow -- it would be nice if 
> linux could as well.

Are you absolutely sure that Solaris is mounting NFS/UDP? The reason I'm
asking is because Solaris' mount_nfs defaults to using TCP unless you
explicitly force it to use UDP with -o proto=udp.

Just checking...

Thanks,
Ion

-- 
  It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool,
            than to open it and remove all doubt.

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Re: 3 bugs with UDP mounts

[Andrew Ryan]

At 11:20 AM 4/23/02 -0400, Ion Badulescu wrote:
>On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 00:37:15 -0700, Andrew Ryan <andrewr@nam-shub.com> wrote:
> > Solaris has clearly solved this problem somehow -- it would be nice if
> > linux could as well.
>
>Are you absolutely sure that Solaris is mounting NFS/UDP? The reason I'm
>asking is because Solaris' mount_nfs defaults to using TCP unless you
>explicitly force it to use UDP with -o proto=udp.


Yes, indeed, I did mount the server with the 'proto=udp' option on the 
Solaris host.



thanks,
andrew


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Re: 3 bugs with UDP mounts

[miah]

2.11q seems to be the current.  But sadly, the HISTORY file is lacking in decent
descriptions of changes. eg;

* mount: minor fix (Andrey J. Melnikoff)

Though, I don't see anything that looks to be a major fix for nfs issues.

-miah

On Tue, Apr 23, 2002 at 12:37:15AM -0700, Andrew Ryan wrote:
> I'm using mount 2.11g, as supplied with RH 7.2. Is there a newer mount 
> program I should be using? Can others duplicate this bug?
> 
> 
> thanks,
> andrew

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RE: 3 bugs with UDP mounts

[Lever, Charles]

> > > 1. UDP read performance (v2 and v3) on large files is really
> > > poor. [....]
> > > I can get excellent read performance, as long as the files
> > > are relatively small.
> >
> >you are probably hitting the network speed step down between
> >the GbE filer and the 100Mb client.  the first packet loss
> >will cause your read throughput to drop.  i'll bet your
> >small file knee occurs right about at the size of your switch's
> >memory buffer.
> 
> I'm not seeing any packet loss on client or server acc. to interface 
> statistics. How would I find this out?

the interface statistics reflect errors right at the client's NIC.
the switch may also drop packets, for example, to match link speed,
because it has exhausted buffer space, because of QOS or packet
scheduling, and so on.  IOW the client can get a packet to the switch
perfectly (so no Tx error occurs) but the switch may drop the packet
before getting it to the server.  and also in the reverse direction.

the client may also lose replies because of lack of socket buffer space.
packets are received perfectly (thus no Rx error occurs) but the
driver/network layer fails to copy the data to the RPC layer because
there is not enough socket buffer space.  the network layer drops
the packet.

take a look at "nfsstat -c" -- there's a retransmission number
at the top that indicates how often the client was not able to
get a request to the server (and a reply from the server) the first
time.  you can also look at "netstat -s" to see if there are
reassembly failures (see other thread: "nfs performance: read
only/gigE/nolock/1Tb per day").

> >have you tried this test with TCP?
> 
> Yeah, TCP performance is fine. It's the hangs under 2.4.17+NFS-ALL 
> (described in an earlier mail) that are killing me. The hangs 
> seem to have 
> gone away in 2.4.19pre7+NFS-ALL, but I need more time to test all of 
> 2.4.19pre7 in my environment to make sure it holds up OK.

that's good news.

> Would it be possible -- via a kernel option or mount option 
> -- to control 
> the behavior in the Linux client as well so that high 
> performance can be 
> achieved on a Linux NFS client with high block sizes and UDP? Mixed 
> 100/1000 networks are becoming more of a reality and NFS/TCP, 
> while having 
> gotten tremendously better in the last year or so, is still a work in 
> progress, and it's nice to have another acceptable option for 
> mounting.

my 2 cents:

IMHO the right answer is to get TCP fixed properly as soon as possible.
UDP is always subject to the quality of your network, and thus is
a greater risk to data integrity.  also, the application and O/S on
the client should have some ability to control the flow of network
data, even on single speed networks -- UDP doesn't provide that.
though TCP has greater network and CPU overhead, it is a better choice
if NFS is to be taken seriously as a robust enterprise-quality file
system.

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RE: 3 bugs with UDP mounts

[Bogdan Costescu]

On Tue, 23 Apr 2002, Lever, Charles wrote:

> the client may also lose replies because of lack of socket buffer space.
> packets are received perfectly (thus no Rx error occurs) but the
> driver/network layer fails to copy the data to the RPC layer because
> there is not enough socket buffer space.  the network layer drops
> the packet.

Ouch, completely missed OOM situations in my earlier list. They are quite 
tricky because:
 - you never know when they hit you
 - you never know how much they last
 - some packets can go through and some cannot. Lots of drivers derived 
from Donald Becker's skeleton use a "rx_copybreak" limit to decide 
whether to just hand the (maximum sized) packet to the upper layers or 
allocate a properly sized skb and copy the packet there then hand it up. 
While allocation of a small skb in the second case might succeed 
(rx_copybreak is usually set to 200), the refilling of the Rx ring in the 
first case with a maximum sized one might fail.

A scenario that might happen is this: a client mounts some tree through 
NFS which is then used to serve web pages with apache + mods. There is no 
limit on number of simultaneously running apache and child processes. The 
machine works well most of the time, however, when it receives a high 
number of HTTP requests it spawns too many processes which exhaust 
memory... Several cases similar to this were reported to me (by people 
using the 3c59x driver as they thought it was related to the driver).

-- 
Bogdan Costescu

IWR - Interdisziplinaeres Zentrum fuer Wissenschaftliches Rechnen
Universitaet Heidelberg, INF 368, D-69120 Heidelberg, GERMANY
Telephone: +49 6221 54 8869, Telefax: +49 6221 54 8868
E-mail: Bogdan.Costescu@IWR.Uni-Heidelberg.De




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RE: 3 bugs with UDP mounts

[Lever, Charles]

hi all-

> kernel: 2.4.17+NFS-ALL-2002-Jan-17, 2.4.19pre7+NFS-ALL. Both 
> SMP on a 2-CPU 
> system.
> nfs-utils-0.3.1-13.7.2.1, mount-2.11g-5
> server: NetApp

for the whole list:  when reporting issues against NetApp filers,
please mention the OnTap version and filer hardware if you can...
that would help us a lot!  thanks!

> network: 100baseTx-FD on client, gigE-FD on server
> 
> 1. UDP read performance (v2 and v3) on large files is really 
> poor. [....]
> I can get excellent read performance, as long as the files 
> are relatively small.

you are probably hitting the network speed step down between
the GbE filer and the 100Mb client.  the first packet loss
will cause your read throughput to drop.  i'll bet your
small file knee occurs right about at the size of your switch's
memory buffer.

have you tried this test with TCP?

> With a Solaris client, mounting the same server UDP (and also 
> 100baseTx-FD), reading the same file is done at a 
> consistently high speed, 
> so it definitely seems to be a linux-specific problem.

Solaris may have workarounds (like a loose interpretation of
Van Jacobsen) or bugs that allow this to work well.  just a guess.

> 2. I accidentally mounted an NFS filesystem 
> "udp,nfsvers=3,rsize=32768,wsize=32768". For one, I don't exactly 
> understand why this was allowed, since it doesn't seem like I 
> should be 
> allowed to mount NFS/UDP with these options.

we have filers mounted with UDP and r/wsize=32K from a R7.2 system
running 2.4.19pre.  NFS over UDP allows r/wsize up to 32K.  the
limitation is the number of bytes possible in a single fragmented
IP packet which is about 65536 bytes.  the RPC/UDP header overhead
for a 64K r/wsize cause it not to fit in a single IP packet.

> Also, this creates a 
> disagreement between what is returned by the 'mount' command and 'cat 
> /proc/mounts'.
> 
> The relevant line from the 'mount' command shows this:
> fileserver:/vol/stage/data on /shared/data type nfs 
> (rw,udp,nfsvers=3,rsize=32768,wsize=32768,intr,hard,addr=192.1
> 68.100.240)
> 
> while the relevant line from /proc/mounts shows this:
> fileserver:/vol/stage/data /shared/data nfs 
> rw,v3,rsize=8192,wsize=8192,hard,intr,udp,lock,addr=fileserver 0 0
> This may be a problem with my version of mount or nfs-utils, 
> anyone seen 
> this before?

the mismatch between the requested size and the reported mount
options i have never seen before, and looks like a bug to me.
your version of mount may not allow more than 8k r/wsize because
of old limitations on the Linux server?

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Re: 3 bugs with UDP mounts

[Bruce Allan]

FYI, NetApp had another server at Connectathon2002 running ONTAP 6.2 X37
which did not exhibit this problem.

I can't speak of the extent of the bug as the Connectathon cthon02 test
suite is the extent of my exposure to NetApp servers.

---
Bruce Allan  <bruce.allan@us.ibm.com>
Software Engineer, Linux Technology Center
IBM Corporation, Beaverton OR
503-578-4187   IBM Tie-line 775-4187



                                                                                                                                   
                      Andrew Ryan                                                                                                  
                      <andrewr@nam-shub        To:       Bruce Allan/Beaverton/IBM@IBMUS                                           
                      .com>                    cc:       nfs@lists.sourceforge.net                                                 
                                               Subject:  Re: [NFS] 3 bugs with UDP mounts                                          
                      04/22/2002 03:22                                                                                             
                      PM                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                   




On Monday 22 April 2002 10:00 am, Bruce Allan wrote:
> I also witnessed the same problem (problem #3 below) at the Connectathon
> event this year with NFSv3 on both TCP and UDP.  Trond was there and he
> verified this was a bug in NetApp's ONTAP 6.1.1 having to do with, IIRC,
> how they handle byte swapping against little-endian clients.  This bug
was
> also discovered at the 2001 Connectathon event.  NetApp fixed this in a
> later release of ONTAP (I think they said it was fixed in 6.1.2 but don't
> quote me on that).

Thanks for the info. We're running 6.1.2R1, so I would guess they've not
fixed it yet. Perhaps in 6.1.3. I wonder, is the problem basically cosmetic
or does it manifest itself in other places as well?


andrew




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Re: 3 bugs with UDP mounts

[Bruce Allan]

I also witnessed the same problem (problem #3 below) at the Connectathon
event this year with NFSv3 on both TCP and UDP.  Trond was there and he
verified this was a bug in NetApp's ONTAP 6.1.1 having to do with, IIRC,
how they handle byte swapping against little-endian clients.  This bug was
also discovered at the 2001 Connectathon event.  NetApp fixed this in a
later release of ONTAP (I think they said it was fixed in 6.1.2 but don't
quote me on that).

---
Bruce Allan  <bruce.allan@us.ibm.com>
Software Engineer, Linux Technology Center
IBM Corporation, Beaverton OR
503-578-4187   IBM Tie-line 775-4187



                                                                                                                                      
                      Andrew Ryan                                                                                                     
                      <andrewr@nam-shub.co        To:       nfs@lists.sourceforge.net                                                 
                      m>                          cc:                                                                                 
                      Sent by:                    Subject:  [NFS] 3 bugs with UDP mounts                                              
                      nfs-admin@lists.sour                                                                                            
                      ceforge.net                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                      
                      04/21/2002 12:06 PM                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                      




Running performance tests on NFS this past week, I've uncovered 3 apparent
bugs. The first bug is pretty unpleasant, but the second two are fairly
minor.

kernel: 2.4.17+NFS-ALL-2002-Jan-17, 2.4.19pre7+NFS-ALL. Both SMP on a 2-CPU
system.
nfs-utils-0.3.1-13.7.2.1, mount-2.11g-5
server: NetApp
network: 100baseTx-FD on client, gigE-FD on server

1. UDP read performance (v2 and v3) on large files is really poor. I first
noticed this problem when trying to get bonnie++ and tiobench results and
seeing runs which should take about 20 minutes take 24+ hours. To duplicate
this, I created a 1600MB file filled with zeros, and this went quickly.
While writing the file, on the server I saw ~500 NFS ops/sec, and about
4400 kB/s in on the network interface. When I tried reading the file back,
with 'cat /path/to/file > /dev/null' I saw initially fast reads; 7900kB/s
for a few seconds, then slowing down to 100kB/s and ~100 NFSops/sec after a
few seconds.

I can get excellent read performance, as long as the files are relatively
small. With a Solaris client, mounting the same server UDP (and also
100baseTx-FD), reading the same file is done at a consistently high speed,
so it definitely seems to be a linux-specific problem.


2. I accidentally mounted an NFS filesystem
"udp,nfsvers=3,rsize=32768,wsize=32768". For one, I don't exactly
understand why this was allowed, since it doesn't seem like I should be
allowed to mount NFS/UDP with these options. Also, this creates a
disagreement between what is returned by the 'mount' command and 'cat
/proc/mounts'.

The relevant line from the 'mount' command shows this:
fileserver:/vol/stage/data on /shared/data type nfs
(rw,udp,nfsvers=3,rsize=32768,wsize=32768,intr,hard,addr=192.168.100.240)

while the relevant line from /proc/mounts shows this:
fileserver:/vol/stage/data /shared/data nfs
rw,v3,rsize=8192,wsize=8192,hard,intr,udp,lock,addr=fileserver 0 0
This may be a problem with my version of mount or nfs-utils, anyone seen
this before?


3. Running the cthon02 tests with UDP/v3 I get one failure. This looks like
a trivial problem to fix, if in fact it is a problem and not just a
disagreement about how the spec is interpreted.
Test #6 - Try to lock the MAXEOF byte.
         Parent: 6.0  - F_TLOCK [7fffffff,       1] PASSED.
         Child:  6.1  - F_TEST  [7ffffffe,       1] PASSED.
         Child:  6.2  - F_TEST  [7ffffffe,       2] FAILED!
         Child:  **** Expected EACCES, returned EOVERFLOW...
         Child:  **** Probably implementation error.


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Re: 3 bugs with UDP mounts

[Andrew Ryan]

On Monday 22 April 2002 10:00 am, Bruce Allan wrote:
> I also witnessed the same problem (problem #3 below) at the Connectathon
> event this year with NFSv3 on both TCP and UDP.  Trond was there and he
> verified this was a bug in NetApp's ONTAP 6.1.1 having to do with, IIRC,
> how they handle byte swapping against little-endian clients.  This bug was
> also discovered at the 2001 Connectathon event.  NetApp fixed this in a
> later release of ONTAP (I think they said it was fixed in 6.1.2 but don't
> quote me on that).

Thanks for the info. We're running 6.1.2R1, so I would guess they've not 
fixed it yet. Perhaps in 6.1.3. I wonder, is the problem basically cosmetic 
or does it manifest itself in other places as well?


andrew

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3 bugs with UDP mounts

[Andrew Ryan]

Running performance tests on NFS this past week, I've uncovered 3 apparent 
bugs. The first bug is pretty unpleasant, but the second two are fairly minor.

kernel: 2.4.17+NFS-ALL-2002-Jan-17, 2.4.19pre7+NFS-ALL. Both SMP on a 2-CPU 
system.
nfs-utils-0.3.1-13.7.2.1, mount-2.11g-5
server: NetApp
network: 100baseTx-FD on client, gigE-FD on server

1. UDP read performance (v2 and v3) on large files is really poor. I first 
noticed this problem when trying to get bonnie++ and tiobench results and 
seeing runs which should take about 20 minutes take 24+ hours. To duplicate 
this, I created a 1600MB file filled with zeros, and this went quickly. 
While writing the file, on the server I saw ~500 NFS ops/sec, and about 
4400 kB/s in on the network interface. When I tried reading the file back, 
with 'cat /path/to/file > /dev/null' I saw initially fast reads; 7900kB/s 
for a few seconds, then slowing down to 100kB/s and ~100 NFSops/sec after a 
few seconds.

I can get excellent read performance, as long as the files are relatively 
small. With a Solaris client, mounting the same server UDP (and also 
100baseTx-FD), reading the same file is done at a consistently high speed, 
so it definitely seems to be a linux-specific problem.


2. I accidentally mounted an NFS filesystem 
"udp,nfsvers=3,rsize=32768,wsize=32768". For one, I don't exactly 
understand why this was allowed, since it doesn't seem like I should be 
allowed to mount NFS/UDP with these options. Also, this creates a 
disagreement between what is returned by the 'mount' command and 'cat 
/proc/mounts'.

The relevant line from the 'mount' command shows this:
fileserver:/vol/stage/data on /shared/data type nfs 
(rw,udp,nfsvers=3,rsize=32768,wsize=32768,intr,hard,addr=192.168.100.240)

while the relevant line from /proc/mounts shows this:
fileserver:/vol/stage/data /shared/data nfs 
rw,v3,rsize=8192,wsize=8192,hard,intr,udp,lock,addr=fileserver 0 0
This may be a problem with my version of mount or nfs-utils, anyone seen 
this before?


3. Running the cthon02 tests with UDP/v3 I get one failure. This looks like 
a trivial problem to fix, if in fact it is a problem and not just a 
disagreement about how the spec is interpreted.
Test #6 - Try to lock the MAXEOF byte.
         Parent: 6.0  - F_TLOCK [7fffffff,       1] PASSED.
         Child:  6.1  - F_TEST  [7ffffffe,       1] PASSED.
         Child:  6.2  - F_TEST  [7ffffffe,       2] FAILED!
         Child:  **** Expected EACCES, returned EOVERFLOW...
         Child:  **** Probably implementation error.


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