Re: [PATCH] media: staging: drop omap4iss

Re: [PATCH] media: staging: drop omap4iss

[Andreas Kemnade]

Am Mon, 2 Sep 2024 10:42:31 +0200
schrieb Hans Verkuil <hverkuil@xs4all.nl>:

> The omap4 camera driver has seen no progress since forever, and
> now OMAP4 support has also been dropped from u-boot (1). So it is
> time to retire this driver.
> 

Argumenting with OMAP4 support in U-Boot is silly. That indicates that
there is no movement in keeping u-boot uptodate. Bootloader
development/updating is more risky especially if not done by the vendor,
good chances to brick something. And the bootloader might need
signing. So that argument is done nothing.

Better arguments would be to check if someone has something cooking and
feels not comfortable yet to climb Mount Upstream.

A good place to ask would be the omap platform
list: linux-omap@vger.kernel.org

I get still devicetrees for omap4 devices to review. So there is some
activity with omap4. If you look at postmarketOS you see also some
activity.

And also someone ported the driver to devicetree support:
https://github.com/iridia-ulb/meta-builderbot/blob/master/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-stable-4.16/0008-omap4iss-Fix-multiple-bugs-and-use-device-tree.patch

So the situation is not that simple. I am still evaluating it because I
myself have a device with omap4 and camera.

Regards,
Andreas

Re: [PATCH] media: staging: drop omap4iss

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Andreas,

On Mon, Nov 18, 2024 at 08:00:25PM +0100, Andreas Kemnade wrote:
> Am Mon, 2 Sep 2024 10:42:31 +0200 schrieb Hans Verkuil :
> 
> > The omap4 camera driver has seen no progress since forever, and
> > now OMAP4 support has also been dropped from u-boot (1). So it is
> > time to retire this driver.
> 
> Argumenting with OMAP4 support in U-Boot is silly. That indicates that
> there is no movement in keeping u-boot uptodate. Bootloader
> development/updating is more risky especially if not done by the vendor,
> good chances to brick something. And the bootloader might need
> signing. So that argument is done nothing.
> 
> Better arguments would be to check if someone has something cooking and
> feels not comfortable yet to climb Mount Upstream.
> 
> A good place to ask would be the omap platform
> list: linux-omap@vger.kernel.org
> 
> I get still devicetrees for omap4 devices to review. So there is some
> activity with omap4. If you look at postmarketOS you see also some
> activity.
> 
> And also someone ported the driver to devicetree support:
> https://github.com/iridia-ulb/meta-builderbot/blob/master/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-stable-4.16/0008-omap4iss-Fix-multiple-bugs-and-use-device-tree.patch
> 
> So the situation is not that simple. I am still evaluating it because I
> myself have a device with omap4 and camera.

Have you tested the camera recently ? The omap4iss driver has been
unmaintained in mainline for a very, very long time, and I would be
surprised if it worked.

If someone is interested in taking over maintainership and improving the
driver to get it out of drivers/staging/ to drivers/media/, the removal
can certainly be reverted. drivers/staging/ is not a place where drivers
are left to bitrot, it's meant for active development of code not fully
ready for mainline yet.

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [PATCH] media: staging: drop omap4iss

[Andreas Kemnade]

Am Tue, 19 Nov 2024 09:02:22 +0200
schrieb Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>:

> Hi Andreas,
> 
> On Mon, Nov 18, 2024 at 08:00:25PM +0100, Andreas Kemnade wrote:
> > Am Mon, 2 Sep 2024 10:42:31 +0200 schrieb Hans Verkuil :
> >   
> > > The omap4 camera driver has seen no progress since forever, and
> > > now OMAP4 support has also been dropped from u-boot (1). So it is
> > > time to retire this driver.  
> > 
> > Argumenting with OMAP4 support in U-Boot is silly. That indicates that
> > there is no movement in keeping u-boot uptodate. Bootloader
> > development/updating is more risky especially if not done by the vendor,
> > good chances to brick something. And the bootloader might need
> > signing. So that argument is done nothing.
> > 
> > Better arguments would be to check if someone has something cooking and
> > feels not comfortable yet to climb Mount Upstream.
> > 
> > A good place to ask would be the omap platform
> > list: linux-omap@vger.kernel.org
> > 
> > I get still devicetrees for omap4 devices to review. So there is some
> > activity with omap4. If you look at postmarketOS you see also some
> > activity.
> > 
> > And also someone ported the driver to devicetree support:
> > https://github.com/iridia-ulb/meta-builderbot/blob/master/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-stable-4.16/0008-omap4iss-Fix-multiple-bugs-and-use-device-tree.patch
> > 
> > So the situation is not that simple. I am still evaluating it because I
> > myself have a device with omap4 and camera.  
> 
> Have you tested the camera recently ? The omap4iss driver has been
> unmaintained in mainline for a very, very long time, and I would be
> surprised if it worked.
> 
No, I have not tested it. I only have a bitrot out of tree driver for my
camera which was probably never used with omap. Vendor system seems to
handle camera via the m3 processor in a closed-source firmware blob. So
what is the overall picture:

Which omap4 devices have cameras? What is the status of the sensor
driver? Known working/Mainline/Out-of-tree/none? Datasheet for
sensor available?
The question is whether omap4iss can be tested together with a
known-working camera sensor driver. That would make things a lot easier.

BT200 has a camera without mainline sensor driver.
Droid4 has also a camera. What is the status of the sensor driver?
What about the samsung-espresso tablets? And the xyboards?

Pandaboard camera module? If have a pandaboard I use for reference, but
no camera there.

> If someone is interested in taking over maintainership and improving the
> driver to get it out of drivers/staging/ to drivers/media/, the removal
> can certainly be reverted. drivers/staging/ is not a place where drivers
> are left to bitrot, it's meant for active development of code not fully
> ready for mainline yet.
> 
I guess the way to start is to revert the remove and then update the
above-mentioned devicetree support patch. I have no feeling how complex
that whole task would be.

Regards,
Andreas

Re: [PATCH] media: staging: drop omap4iss

[Laurent Pinchart]

Hi Andreas,

On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 08:54:06AM +0100, Andreas Kemnade wrote:
> Am Tue, 19 Nov 2024 09:02:22 +0200 schrieb Laurent Pinchart:
> > On Mon, Nov 18, 2024 at 08:00:25PM +0100, Andreas Kemnade wrote:
> > > Am Mon, 2 Sep 2024 10:42:31 +0200 schrieb Hans Verkuil :
> > >   
> > > > The omap4 camera driver has seen no progress since forever, and
> > > > now OMAP4 support has also been dropped from u-boot (1). So it is
> > > > time to retire this driver.  
> > > 
> > > Argumenting with OMAP4 support in U-Boot is silly. That indicates that
> > > there is no movement in keeping u-boot uptodate. Bootloader
> > > development/updating is more risky especially if not done by the vendor,
> > > good chances to brick something. And the bootloader might need
> > > signing. So that argument is done nothing.
> > > 
> > > Better arguments would be to check if someone has something cooking and
> > > feels not comfortable yet to climb Mount Upstream.
> > > 
> > > A good place to ask would be the omap platform
> > > list: linux-omap@vger.kernel.org
> > > 
> > > I get still devicetrees for omap4 devices to review. So there is some
> > > activity with omap4. If you look at postmarketOS you see also some
> > > activity.
> > > 
> > > And also someone ported the driver to devicetree support:
> > > https://github.com/iridia-ulb/meta-builderbot/blob/master/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-stable-4.16/0008-omap4iss-Fix-multiple-bugs-and-use-device-tree.patch
> > > 
> > > So the situation is not that simple. I am still evaluating it because I
> > > myself have a device with omap4 and camera.  
> > 
> > Have you tested the camera recently ? The omap4iss driver has been
> > unmaintained in mainline for a very, very long time, and I would be
> > surprised if it worked.
> 
> No, I have not tested it. I only have a bitrot out of tree driver for my
> camera which was probably never used with omap. Vendor system seems to
> handle camera via the m3 processor in a closed-source firmware blob. So
> what is the overall picture:
> 
> Which omap4 devices have cameras? What is the status of the sensor
> driver? Known working/Mainline/Out-of-tree/none? Datasheet for
> sensor available?
> The question is whether omap4iss can be tested together with a
> known-working camera sensor driver. That would make things a lot easier.
>
> BT200 has a camera without mainline sensor driver.
> Droid4 has also a camera. What is the status of the sensor driver?
> What about the samsung-espresso tablets? And the xyboards?
> 
> Pandaboard camera module? If have a pandaboard I use for reference, but
> no camera there.

I used to work on it using a Pandaboard and an MT9P031 camera module,
from Leopard Imaging if I recall correctly.

> > If someone is interested in taking over maintainership and improving the
> > driver to get it out of drivers/staging/ to drivers/media/, the removal
> > can certainly be reverted. drivers/staging/ is not a place where drivers
> > are left to bitrot, it's meant for active development of code not fully
> > ready for mainline yet.
> 
> I guess the way to start is to revert the remove and then update the
> above-mentioned devicetree support patch. I have no feeling how complex
> that whole task would be.

That would be a first step, yes. After that, completing resizer support
will be a good task candidate, followed by exposing the ISP parameters
to userspace, and adding support for it to libcamera.

All it takes is a volunteer maintainer for the driver, with enough time
and motivation :-)

-- 
Regards,

Laurent Pinchart

Re: [PATCH] media: staging: drop omap4iss

[Andreas Kemnade]

Am Wed, 20 Nov 2024 10:39:38 +0200
schrieb Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>:

> Hi Andreas,
> 
> On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 08:54:06AM +0100, Andreas Kemnade wrote:
> > Am Tue, 19 Nov 2024 09:02:22 +0200 schrieb Laurent Pinchart:  
> > > On Mon, Nov 18, 2024 at 08:00:25PM +0100, Andreas Kemnade wrote:  
> > > > Am Mon, 2 Sep 2024 10:42:31 +0200 schrieb Hans Verkuil :
> > > >     
> > > > > The omap4 camera driver has seen no progress since forever, and
> > > > > now OMAP4 support has also been dropped from u-boot (1). So it is
> > > > > time to retire this driver.    
> > > > 
> > > > Argumenting with OMAP4 support in U-Boot is silly. That indicates that
> > > > there is no movement in keeping u-boot uptodate. Bootloader
> > > > development/updating is more risky especially if not done by the vendor,
> > > > good chances to brick something. And the bootloader might need
> > > > signing. So that argument is done nothing.
> > > > 
> > > > Better arguments would be to check if someone has something cooking and
> > > > feels not comfortable yet to climb Mount Upstream.
> > > > 
> > > > A good place to ask would be the omap platform
> > > > list: linux-omap@vger.kernel.org
> > > > 
> > > > I get still devicetrees for omap4 devices to review. So there is some
> > > > activity with omap4. If you look at postmarketOS you see also some
> > > > activity.
> > > > 
> > > > And also someone ported the driver to devicetree support:
> > > > https://github.com/iridia-ulb/meta-builderbot/blob/master/recipes-kernel/linux/linux-stable-4.16/0008-omap4iss-Fix-multiple-bugs-and-use-device-tree.patch
> > > > 
> > > > So the situation is not that simple. I am still evaluating it because I
> > > > myself have a device with omap4 and camera.    
> > > 
> > > Have you tested the camera recently ? The omap4iss driver has been
> > > unmaintained in mainline for a very, very long time, and I would be
> > > surprised if it worked.  
> > 
> > No, I have not tested it. I only have a bitrot out of tree driver for my
> > camera which was probably never used with omap. Vendor system seems to
> > handle camera via the m3 processor in a closed-source firmware blob. So
> > what is the overall picture:
> > 
> > Which omap4 devices have cameras? What is the status of the sensor
> > driver? Known working/Mainline/Out-of-tree/none? Datasheet for
> > sensor available?
> > The question is whether omap4iss can be tested together with a
> > known-working camera sensor driver. That would make things a lot easier.
> >
> > BT200 has a camera without mainline sensor driver.
> > Droid4 has also a camera. What is the status of the sensor driver?
> > What about the samsung-espresso tablets? And the xyboards?
> > 
> > Pandaboard camera module? If have a pandaboard I use for reference, but
> > no camera there.  
> 
> I used to work on it using a Pandaboard and an MT9P031 camera module,
> from Leopard Imaging if I recall correctly.
>
Hmm, that would require also soldering the connector and it seems like
no standard thing, so I would need to create an adaptor. At least I do
not find anything on ebay which looks like it can be attached to the
Pandaboard.

> > > If someone is interested in taking over maintainership and improving the
> > > driver to get it out of drivers/staging/ to drivers/media/, the removal
> > > can certainly be reverted. drivers/staging/ is not a place where drivers
> > > are left to bitrot, it's meant for active development of code not fully
> > > ready for mainline yet.  
> > 
> > I guess the way to start is to revert the remove and then update the
> > above-mentioned devicetree support patch. I have no feeling how complex
> > that whole task would be.  
> 
> That would be a first step, yes. After that, completing resizer support
> will be a good task candidate, followed by exposing the ISP parameters
> to userspace, and adding support for it to libcamera.
> 
Well, I guess before adding the resizer stuff, I want to see a picture
influenced by what is in front of the camera of a device I really care
about (!= pandaboard) and then adjusting things to the point where
format configurations are solved. At some point more could also jump
in to screw at sensor chip drivers.

Regards,
Andreas

Re: [PATCH] media: staging: drop omap4iss

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

Hi,

> Am 21.11.2024 um 11:27 schrieb Andreas Kemnade <andreas@kemnade.info>:
> 
> Am Wed, 20 Nov 2024 10:39:38 +0200
> schrieb Laurent Pinchart <laurent.pinchart@ideasonboard.com>:
> 
>> Hi Andreas,
>> 
>> On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 08:54:06AM +0100, Andreas Kemnade wrote:
>>> 
>>> Pandaboard camera module? If have a pandaboard I use for reference, but
>>> no camera there.  

Same for me with a PandaES but no camera.

>> 
>> I used to work on it using a Pandaboard and an MT9P031 camera module,
>> from Leopard Imaging if I recall correctly.

There had been a camera module for the Pandaboard:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:E-CAM51_44x_Pandaboard_Camera.jpg

>> 
> Hmm, that would require also soldering the connector

Seems to be a 30 pin and called J17. Schematics fortunately
shows pin assignment of an up to 4 lane CSI camera:

https://web.archive.org/web/20161024203005/http://pandaboard.org/sites/default/files/board_reference/pandaboard-es-b/panda-es-b-schematic.pdf

And there are some gpios for control.

> and it seems like
> no standard thing, so I would need to create an adaptor. At least I do
> not find anything on ebay which looks like it can be attached to the
> Pandaboard.

ov5640 based camera modules appear to be still available. For example

https://www.e-consystems.com/5MP-MIPI-KameraModul-de.asp

But no documentation about the connector or the adapter board for a
PandaBoard.

Building some adapters isn't a big challenge, but crafting a hardware
design is. And retrofitting the connector (if we know which one was
intended) needs a calm hand + flux (and ideally a microscope).

BR,
Nikolaus

Re: [PATCH] media: staging: drop omap4iss

[H. Nikolaus Schaller]

> Am 21.11.2024 um 11:52 schrieb H. Nikolaus Schaller <hns@goldelico.com>:
> 
> Seems to be a 30 pin and called J17. Schematics fortunately
> shows pin assignment of an up to 4 lane CSI camera:
> 
> https://web.archive.org/web/20161024203005/http://pandaboard.org/sites/default/files/board_reference/pandaboard-es-b/panda-es-b-schematic.pdf
> 
> And there are some gpios for control.

I just had the inspiration to look into the OMAP5 EVM schematics.

It has a connector J2 with the same pin assignment for a camera module.
Just using a diffferent FREFCLK number and different gpios.

Therefore, a camera for the Panda(ES) should also work on the OMAP5 EVM.
AFAIK the ISS hardware and required driver is also the same betweeen
omap4 and omap5.

> But no documentation about the connector or the adapter board for a

Well, in the EVM schematics it is marked "111-1003200" and I could not
find that. But the reference guide (SWCU130) says:

	Samtec TFM-115-32-S-D-A

This looks from a photo like the one populated on the OMAP5 EVM.

So we at least know now, which connector to add to a PandaBoard.

BR,
Nikolaus

Re: [PATCH] media: staging: drop omap4iss

[Unknown]

Hi,

> BT200 has a camera without mainline sensor driver.
> Droid4 has also a camera. What is the status of the sensor driver?
> What about the samsung-espresso tablets? And the xyboards?

Same as your device droid4 and xyboard handle the camera via m3
firmware.
The droid 4's rear camera is totaly unkown with no datasheed or open
source driver known to exist.
The front camera has avaialble datasheed and out of tree driver.
The xyboards cary the same sensor as the d4's rear module.

We (maemo leste, a distro that has put considerable effort into
bringing up the droid 4, droid bionic and xyboard) do hope to
eventually bring up the front camera on the droid, as all the
componants for this are floating around, but are currenly not working
on this issue.

regards,
Carl

Re: [PATCH] media: staging: drop omap4iss

[Andreas Kemnade]

Am Thu, 21 Nov 2024 12:40:37 +0100
schrieb Unknown <devnull@uvos.xyz>:

> Hi,
> 
> > BT200 has a camera without mainline sensor driver.
> > Droid4 has also a camera. What is the status of the sensor driver?
> > What about the samsung-espresso tablets? And the xyboards?  
> 
> Same as your device droid4 and xyboard handle the camera via m3
> firmware.
> The droid 4's rear camera is totaly unkown with no datasheed or open
> source driver known to exist.

that page suggests that there is an open source driver for the
rear camera:

https://elektranox.org/2018/02/0025-droid-camera/

Quoting:
https://searchcode.com/file/50297519/drivers/media/video/msm/sensors/ov8820_v4l2.c

BTW:
Bt200 has OV7692

> The front camera has avaialble datasheed and out of tree driver.
> The xyboards cary the same sensor as the d4's rear module.
> 
> We (maemo leste, a distro that has put considerable effort into
> bringing up the droid 4, droid bionic and xyboard) do hope to
> eventually bring up the front camera on the droid, as all the
> componants for this are floating around, but are currenly not working
> on this issue.
> 
So summary:
there are potential real users of omap4-iss. Apparently all of them
require besides a working a omap4-iss to work on some sensor driver to
have something useful.

If omap4-iss would be known-working there are probably better chances
that more jump in.

Regards,
Andreas