Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[Yves Bodack]

From: "Derek Engelhaupt" <derekengelhaupt@rocketmail.com>
Subject: RE: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

>I had a 712/100 at work that we (ok I) modified to take 2 internal disks
and it ran
> well even though it got extremely hot inside since the 712 wasn't designed
for
> efficiant cooling.  I was using 2 C2490s in it, but quit doing so because
of the
> heat and also moved one of the disks to an external chassis.  The mod was
done by
> using the internal SCSI cable of a 715 and removing the floppy drive.  Not
a
> recommended solution, but the 712 power supply seemed to be able to keep
up.

This is definitively NOT recommended. I tried this in a 712/60 and almost
lost one of the disks. Powerer supply wasn't strong enough to spinn up 2
disks, and a varistor blow up.

Greetings, Yves...

Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[James Smith]

when i'm doing the disk cloning i'm actually using 2 workstations to
power the drives separately & a scsi cable long enough to reach both
disks, so i dont think its a spin up issue

James S

 


> > recommended solution, but the 712 power supply seemed to be able to keep
> up.
> 
> This is definitively NOT recommended. I tried this in a 712/60 and almost
> lost one of the disks. Powerer supply wasn't strong enough to spinn up 2
> disks, and a varistor blow up.
> 
> Greetings, Yves...
> 

Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[John David Anglin]

> when i'm doing the disk cloning i'm actually using 2 workstations to
> power the drives separately & a scsi cable long enough to reach both
> disks, so i dont think its a spin up issue

On old drives, you can hear them spin up.  When they reach operational
speed, there is usually a click when the heads are released followed by
some head motion (thermal calibration).  If you don't hear the click,
then the drive is probably not spinning up.  Seagates have a jumper that
controls whether the drive requires a scsi command to start or not.  The
default jumper setting is to start at power on.

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)

Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[James Smith]

the cable length is less than 4ft & every other disk worked, including
some of the same model






On Wed, 2002-11-27 at 01:57, jsoe0708@tiscali.be wrote:
> >
> >when i'm doing the disk cloning i'm actually using 2 workstations to
> >power the drives separately & a scsi cable long enough to reach both
> >disks, so i dont think its a spin up issue
> >
> Not a too long cable:
> in production with 712 model I met problems when the total length of the
> scsi chain was below but near 6m (composed of about 5 cables; connectic should
> certainly affected the signal)
> 
> Joel
> 
> ********************************************************************************
> Controlez mieux votre consommation Internet...surfez Tiscali Complete...http://tiscali.complete.be
> 
> 

Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[John David Anglin]

> the cable length is less than 4ft & every other disk worked, including
> some of the same model

Have you tried reading with dd from raw device?  Try with a large bs and
count=1.  This should detect a funny block size.  You could also try building
the driver with debugging enabled.  This should give some idea as to
what's happening.

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)

Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[jsoe0708]

>
>the cable length is less than 4ft & every other disk worked, including
>some of the same model
>
Ok same model but can you still make me a favour by verifying the firmware
release?

Thanks,
    Joel

********************************************************************************
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Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[James Smith]

ooo - my mistake

this is the only one thats an ST31230N - the rest are ST31200N

how do i find the firmware number for the drives?

theres what i think are proms with numbers on labels which might be it

the ones that work (ST31200N) all have 

3491 I-HI 150
3491 I-LO 150 

on them 

the one that doesnt (ST31230N) has

7579 1929 I-HI
7579 1929 I-LO

any help ?


James S


On Wed, 2002-11-27 at 12:06, jsoe0708@tiscali.be wrote:
> 
> >
> >the cable length is less than 4ft & every other disk worked, including
> >some of the same model
> >
> Ok same model but can you still make me a favour by verifying the firmware
> release?
> 
> Thanks,
>     Joel
> 
> ********************************************************************************
> Controlez mieux votre consommation Internet...surfez Tiscali Complete...http://tiscali.complete.be
> 
> 

Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[Grant Grundler]

James Smith wrote:
> how do i find the firmware number for the drives?

grundler@c3k:~$ cat /proc/scsi/scsi
Attached devices: 
Host: scsi1 Channel: 00 Id: 05 Lun: 00
  Vendor: SEAGATE  Model: ST118202LC       Rev: 7D04
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI SCSI revision: 02
Host: scsi1 Channel: 00 Id: 06 Lun: 00
  Vendor: SEAGATE  Model: ST118202LC       Rev: HP03
  Type:   Direct-Access                    ANSI SCSI revision: 02
grundler@c3k:~$ 

"Rev" is the drive firmware.

grant

RE: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

["Beerse, Corné"]

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Smith [mailto:james@compusmithllc.com]
> I just got a pile of 712/60's - $80 for 10 of em :)

I got mine (1 and a half) for free ;-)

> i've set one up & now i'm going through the disks one at a time &
> cloning them as its quicker than going through the install each time
> i've hit one disk that gives me this whenever i try to fdisk it 
> 
> sixty:~# fdisk /dev/sdb
> 
> Unable to read /dev/sdb
> 
> 
> when i tried to zero the disk, i got this....
> 
> sixty:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb count=1 bs=512 
> dd: writing `/dev/sdb': Input/output error
> 1+0 records in
> 0+0 records out

So you cannot read and cannot write to it.

> 
> the console sees the disk when i use search 
> 
> does this indicate a dead disk?
> 
> the disk was ok until i put it into a mac......

What where the results on the mac? Can you clone the disks using a mac? If
so, what are the results?

My experience: the 712 I have at home was my workhorse for over 5 years. It
never failed on me. Occasional reboots for obvious reasons never had any
problems. However, after being down for a couple of weeks, the harddisk does
not spin properly. It was reported with several of those older systems. The
ioscan and other tools that only access the firmware of the drive report no
problems. Actual access of the disk is a problem since (in my case) the disk
does not spin at all.

If you can access the data storage using your mac, you might have success
after warming the device. I know the powersupply in the 712 series is
limited and might not provide enough power to start a cold disk. You might
be able to clone disks using your mac.

In an disk array, I have a couple of disks that are all the same specs.
However, due to a hardware defect in one of them, a (HP-UX) `ioscan` reports
0 bytes for that disk where others report their actual value. If you hook
the disk to an HP-UX machine, what does `ioscan` report?

Sorry to say but I think your disk is dead

Success

CBee

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RE: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[Derek Engelhaupt]

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I had a 712/100 at work that we (ok I) modified to take 2 internal disks and it ran well even though it got extremely hot inside since the 712 wasn't designed for efficiant cooling.  I was using 2 C2490s in it, but quit doing so because of the heat and also moved one of the disks to an external chassis.  The mod was done by using the internal SCSI cable of a 715 and removing the floppy drive.  Not a recommended solution, but the 712 power supply seemed to be able to keep up.
 "Beerse,_Corné" <c.beerse@torex-hiscom.nl> wrote:
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: James Smith [mailto:james@compusmithllc.com] 
> I just got a pile of 712/60's - $80 for 10 of em :) 

I got mine (1 and a half) for free ;-) 

> i've set one up & now i'm going through the disks one at a time & 
> cloning them as its quicker than going through the install each time 
> i've hit one disk that gives me this whenever i try to fdisk it 
> 
> sixty:~# fdisk /dev/sdb 
> 
> Unable to read /dev/sdb 
> 
> 
> when i tried to zero the disk, i got this.... 
> 
> sixty:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb count=1 bs=512 
> dd: writing `/dev/sdb': Input/output error 
> 1+0 records in 
> 0+0 records out 

So you cannot read and cannot write to it. 

> 
> the console sees the disk when i use search 
> 
> does this indicate a dead disk? 
> 
> the disk was ok until i put it into a mac...... 

What where the results on the mac? Can you clone the disks using a mac? If so, what are the results? 

My experience: the 712 I have at home was my workhorse for over 5 years. It never failed on me. Occasional reboots for obvious reasons never had any problems. However, after being down for a couple of weeks, the harddisk does not spin properly. It was reported with several of those older systems. The ioscan and other tools that only access the firmware of the drive report no problems. Actual access of the disk is a problem since (in my case) the disk does not spin at all.

 

****This is exactly why we as HP techs don't shutdown any external disks while trouble shooting unless absolutely necessary.  Disks failing to spin back up after being run for so long is a very comman occurance.  Usually its due to the disk being heat soaked after the system fans shut off.  Even though the disks stop producing heat after the power is off the fans stop cooling them.  The resulting heat soak can sometimes prevent the drive from spinning up.

****If you do have access to an HPUX system, a diskinfo -v /dev/rdsk/cXtXdX command would probably be better to use than an ioscan.  If the diskinfo comes back with something like "cannot access," then the drive controller board is dead.  If it comes back with a response with Obytes for the drive size than it means the drive controller is working, but the drive has stopped spinning.

 

derek



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[parisc-linux] Disk problems

[James Smith]

I just got a pile of 712/60's - $80 for 10 of em :)


i've set one up & now i'm going through the disks one at a time &
cloning them as its quicker than going through the install each time


i've hit one disk that gives me this whenever i try to fdisk it 


sixty:~# fdisk /dev/sdb

Unable to read /dev/sdb


when i tried to zero the disk, i got this....

sixty:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb count=1 bs=512 
dd: writing `/dev/sdb': Input/output error
1+0 records in
0+0 records out

the console sees the disk when i use search 

does this indicate a dead disk?

the disk was ok until i put it into a mac......

James S

Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[Derek Engelhaupt]

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Well quit putting them in those darn macs....just kidding.  Who makes the disk?  IBM has certain tools like their drive fitness tests that has saved me a few times.  Seagate and others probably have similar tools.  Check their support sites and it may just be a matter of the wrong block size written by your mac.  IBM drives are especially notorious for having weird block sizes and such.
derek
 James Smith <james@compusmithllc.com> wrote:I just got a pile of 712/60's - $80 for 10 of em :)


i've set one up & now i'm going through the disks one at a time &
cloning them as its quicker than going through the install each time


i've hit one disk that gives me this whenever i try to fdisk it 


sixty:~# fdisk /dev/sdb

Unable to read /dev/sdb


when i tried to zero the disk, i got this....

sixty:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb count=1 bs=512 
dd: writing `/dev/sdb': Input/output error
1+0 records in
0+0 records out

the console sees the disk when i use search 

does this indicate a dead disk?

the disk was ok until i put it into a mac......

James S



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http://lists.parisc-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/parisc-linux


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Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[James Smith]

its the original seagate disk that came with it

the disk still works in the mac, so its not dead

i dont have anything other than macs & the workstations that are scsi

would a low level format on the mac do the same as low level using an
adaptec card ?

James S




On Fri, 2002-11-22 at 20:52, Derek Engelhaupt wrote:
> 
> Well quit putting them in those darn macs....just kidding.  Who makes the disk?  IBM has certain tools like their drive fitness tests that has saved me a few times.  Seagate and others probably have similar tools.  Check their support sites and it may just be a matter of the wrong block size written by your mac.  IBM drives are especially notorious for having weird block sizes and such.
> derek
>  James Smith <james@compusmithllc.com> wrote:I just got a pile of 712/60's - $80 for 10 of em :)
> 
> 
> i've set one up & now i'm going through the disks one at a time &
> cloning them as its quicker than going through the install each time
> 
> 
> i've hit one disk that gives me this whenever i try to fdisk it 
> 
> 
> sixty:~# fdisk /dev/sdb
> 
> Unable to read /dev/sdb
> 
> 
> when i tried to zero the disk, i got this....
> 
> sixty:~# dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sdb count=1 bs=512 
> dd: writing `/dev/sdb': Input/output error
> 1+0 records in
> 0+0 records out
> 
> the console sees the disk when i use search 
> 
> does this indicate a dead disk?
> 
> the disk was ok until i put it into a mac......
> 
> James S
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> parisc-linux mailing list
> parisc-linux@lists.parisc-linux.org
> http://lists.parisc-linux.org/mailman/listinfo/parisc-linux
> 
> 
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Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[jsoe0708]

Hi James,

Sorry in advance if you already do it,

>
>its the original seagate disk that came with it
>
>the disk still works in the mac, so its not dead
>
>i dont have anything other than macs & the workstations that are scsi
>
>would a low level format on the mac do the same as low level using an
>adaptec card ?
>
Don't you still have a hpux support+ cd to boot on it and test your disk
with ODE?

[I encounter a strange problem which I do not yet fix:
I used a data disk which crashed and replaced by HP but new FW release. When
I put it back in my scsi chain, I was unable to use: a lot of scsi reset.
OTC when I chek it on a hpux box no problem as well if I connect it alone
to my hppalinux box ?]

Regards,
    Joel


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Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[Grant Grundler]

jsoe0708@tiscali.be wrote:
> [I encounter a strange problem which I do not yet fix:
> I used a data disk which crashed and replaced by HP but new FW release. When
> I put it back in my scsi chain, I was unable to use: a lot of scsi reset.
> OTC when I chek it on a hpux box no problem as well if I connect it alone
> to my hppalinux box ?]

upgrading firmware should never result in lots of scsi resets.
Sounds more like a problem with the HW configuration.
Check SCSI IDs, cable lengths, and termination.

grant

Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[John David Anglin]

> would a low level format on the mac do the same as low level using an
> adaptec card ?

If it works in a mac, the low-level formatting is probably ok.  It's
most likely the data in block 0 or possibly some of the vendor info
that's the problem.  You should also examine all switch settings and
check that the termination is correct.

Erase disk in the finder doesn't do a low-level format.  It just builds
a new file systems.  Various tools from Adaptec (FWB HDT) and other
vendors are available to do low-level formats on the Mac.  The Sedit
program can probably issue a command to format the drive but I would
only do this as a last resort.

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)

Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[Derek Engelhaupt]

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http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/index.html
I would try that tool.  I had a similar issue with an IBM drive and downloaded their disk test tool and the analysis of the drive fixed the issue.  This tool however only runs on Intel based systems.  Maybe a friend has a single ended SCSI card you could test with on a Winblows box?
derek
 John David Anglin <dave@hiauly1.hia.nrc.ca> wrote:> would a low level format on the mac do the same as low level using an
> adaptec card ?

If it works in a mac, the low-level formatting is probably ok. It's
most likely the data in block 0 or possibly some of the vendor info
that's the problem. You should also examine all switch settings and
check that the termination is correct.

Erase disk in the finder doesn't do a low-level format. It just builds
a new file systems. Various tools from Adaptec (FWB HDT) and other
vendors are available to do low-level formats on the Mac. The Sedit
program can probably issue a command to format the drive but I would
only do this as a last resort.

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin dave.anglin@nrc.ca
National Research Council of Canada (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)
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Re: [parisc-linux] Disk problems

[Grant Grundler]

Derek Engelhaupt wrote:
> If it works in a mac, the low-level formatting is probably ok. It's
> most likely the data in block 0 or possibly some of the vendor info
> that's the problem. You should also examine all switch settings and
> check that the termination is correct.

I privately speculating the nwe disk FW talks to the host differently.
ie it might disconnect/reconnect or send "msg" when the SCSI driver
is expecting something else. That at least would explain why mac or
hpux can deal with the disk but linux can't.

grant