[parisc-linux] Puffin sells out!

[parisc-linux] Puffin sells out!

[John David Anglin]

Reported in the Wall Street Journal Dec. 14, 1999, see
<http://www.linuxcare.com/company/press/1999/12-14-99_puffin.epl>.  It was
stated that the Puffin Group, a small group of Linux buffs who have been
helping Hewlett-Packard Co., is being purchased by Linuxcare Inc.  Alex
Devries and Christopher Beard will become directors within Linuxcare's
Professional Services Business Unit.

Is this the end?

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)

Re: [parisc-linux] Puffin sells out!

[Alan Cox]

> Reported in the Wall Street Journal Dec. 14, 1999, see
> <http://www.linuxcare.com/company/press/1999/12-14-99_puffin.epl>.  It was
> stated that the Puffin Group, a small group of Linux buffs who have been
> helping Hewlett-Packard Co., is being purchased by Linuxcare Inc.  Alex
> Devries and Christopher Beard will become directors within Linuxcare's
> Professional Services Business Unit.
> 
> Is this the end?

That depends what the Puffingroup and HP folks want to do with the port. If
its carrying on as an open public port and HP are willing to open all 
their document access and like to other folks I dont see a problem. If they
work tightly with LC/Puffingroup and trumpet them as their HP Linux porting
heroes then yes its going to be hard for anyone else to justify working for
them.

I doubt HP are dumb somehow. We'll see. Even if HP and LC do most of the
running in their own private little world it doesnt change things like merging
with the main kernel tree and working with folks to sort out interfaces and 
the like.

Alan

Re: [parisc-linux] Puffin sells out!

[Eric Molitor]

On Wed, 15 Dec 1999, Alan Cox wrote:

> > Reported in the Wall Street Journal Dec. 14, 1999, see
> > <http://www.linuxcare.com/company/press/1999/12-14-99_puffin.epl>.  It was
> > stated that the Puffin Group, a small group of Linux buffs who have been
> > helping Hewlett-Packard Co., is being purchased by Linuxcare Inc.  Alex
> > Devries and Christopher Beard will become directors within Linuxcare's
> > Professional Services Business Unit.
> > 
> > Is this the end?
> 
> That depends what the Puffingroup and HP folks want to do with the port. If
> its carrying on as an open public port and HP are willing to open all 
> their document access and like to other folks I dont see a problem. If they
> work tightly with LC/Puffingroup and trumpet them as their HP Linux porting
> heroes then yes its going to be hard for anyone else to justify working for
> them.
> 
> I doubt HP are dumb somehow. We'll see. Even if HP and LC do most of the
> running in their own private little world it doesnt change things like merging
> with the main kernel tree and working with folks to sort out interfaces and 
> the like.
> 
> Alan

Re: [parisc-linux] Puffin sells out!

[Alex deVries]

John David Anglin wrote:
> Is this the end?

Oh, get real.

The Puffin Group will continue to do PA-RISC Linux, but now we'll be
able to put more resources behind it than we've been able to in the
past. It will remain an open source project and will operate as it has. 
The relationship with HP has only been strengthened.

You really should talk to us before coming to such sombre conclusions.

- Alex

-- 
Alex deVries
Vice President of Engineering
The Puffin Group

Re: [parisc-linux] HP releasing docs...

[Alex deVries]

Alan Cox wrote:
> If
> its carrying on as an open public port and HP are willing to open all
> their document access and like to other folks I dont see a problem. 

Having HP opening up documents is probably more difficult than most of
you realize, and in the same way that other hardware vendors can't
release documents on portions of hardware for fear of releasing
competitive information, HP is limited as well.  Expecting HP to open up
*all* documentation is unrealistic.

Also, releasing the documentation isn't just pressing the magic button
labelled "Release Publicly" in red.  The docs have to be found,
screened, edited, reformatted etc. 

Ideally, though, developers will have access to all the hardware they're
porting to. 

What's second best is to be able to do development of certain portions
under NDA.  This can be used when the docs for the hardware *can't* be
released, or when they're not ready to be released.  Advanced viewing
helps out a lot.

The Puffin Group's set up to do this, although we haven't generated any
useable code in this situation yet.  Signing such NDAs has helped us
with quite a few other ways though, in terms of planning.  The open
source linker would never have happened, for instance.

NDA's aren't quite the evil they're made out to be, having them has
really given us a better insight into how to do parisc-linux.

- Alex
-- 
Alex deVries
Vice President of Engineering
The Puffin Group

Re: [parisc-linux] HP releasing docs...

[Alan Cox]

> Also, releasing the documentation isn't just pressing the magic button
> labelled "Release Publicly" in red.  The docs have to be found,
> screened, edited, reformatted etc. 

I know that.

> Ideally, though, developers will have access to all the hardware they're
> porting to. 

Irrespective of who they work for ?

> What's second best is to be able to do development of certain portions
> under NDA.  This can be used when the docs for the hardware *can't* be
> released, or when they're not ready to be released.  Advanced viewing
> helps out a lot.

Yeah

Re: [parisc-linux] Puffin sells out!

[John David Anglin]

> John David Anglin wrote:
> > Is this the end?
> 
> Oh, get real.

It was a question not a conclusion.  I was very surprised to learn about
the sale of the Puffin Group in the paper.  The sale clearly had the
potential to change the dynamics of the PA-RISC port.

As you are aware, the linux market is "red-hot" and investors are plowing
mega-bucks into linux companies.  For example, Linuxcare recieved $32.5
million (U.S.) in funding from Dell, Sun, Motorola and Oracle.  HP wasn't
on the list.

It is certain that the investors pouring money into linux companies are
going to demand a return on their investment.  There will be strong pressure
within these companies to control and close the development of linux.
Standards committees will be formed and this will be a further method by
which participating companies will enhance their position in the market place.

If you look at the board of Linicare, you will see that it is made up
mainly of business people, not linux hackers.  How the linux market will
evolve is hard to say but the current consolidation suggests that venture
capitalists are attempting to gain control of large segment of it.

> The Puffin Group will continue to do PA-RISC Linux, but now we'll be
> able to put more resources behind it than we've been able to in the
> past. It will remain an open source project and will operate as it has. 
> The relationship with HP has only been strengthened.

That's very good news.

-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)

Re: [parisc-linux] Puffin sells out!

[Jack Perdue]

At 09:53 PM 12/14/99 -0500, some Puffin wrote:

[doomsday scenario snipped]

>> Is this the end?
>
>For parisc-linux, yes.  [snip]

>While employees are not forbidden from continuing to work on the port,
>they are actively encouraged to work on proprietary puffin products in
>their spare time which we shall be making a press release about shortly.

    OTTOWA, Canada (AP) - In a surprise strategy, The Puffin Group
    announced in the wake of their takeover today by Linuxcare, Inc.
    a new policy "encouraging" their workers to work for free, reminiscent
    of the downsizing trend of the 1980s.  Business analysts are confused 
    as to the profitability and viability of such policy.  "Asking your
    employees to give up their spare time to put dollars in the pockets
    of the shareholders seems to be a stretch", said Silicon Valley
    analyst...[etc.]

>The mailing list will be deactivated shortly.  We thank you for your
>participation.

LOL!

>This email may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole
>use of the intended recipient. Any review or distribution by others is
>strictly prohibited.  If you are not the intended recipient please contact
>the sender and delete all copies.

Oops.

>To unsubscribe: send e-mail to parisc-linux-request@thepuffingroup.com with
>`unsubscribe' as the subject.

Should we do this now or just wait for its deactivation. :)

jack
j-perdue@tamu.edu

Re: [parisc-linux] Puffin sells out!

[Matthew Wilcox]

On Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 09:53:58PM -0500, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 08:22:19PM -0500, John David Anglin wrote:
> > Reported in the Wall Street Journal Dec. 14, 1999, see
> > <http://www.linuxcare.com/company/press/1999/12-14-99_puffin.epl>.  It was
> > stated that the Puffin Group, a small group of Linux buffs who have been
> > helping Hewlett-Packard Co., is being purchased by Linuxcare Inc.  Alex
> > Devries and Christopher Beard will become directors within Linuxcare's
> > Professional Services Business Unit.
> 
> That's correct.  The Puffin Group will now be manning the phone lines

[...]

> The mailing list will be deactivated shortly.  We thank you for your
> participation.

I've been asked to tag this sort of message with explicit sarcasm tags in
the future.  I need to remember the difference between humor and humour.

P.S.  Jack, that sounds like an innovative business model, i'm sure your
IPO will set new records :-)

Re: [parisc-linux] Puffin sells out!

[John David Anglin]

> On Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 09:53:58PM -0500, Matthew Wilcox wrote:
> > On Tue, Dec 14, 1999 at 08:22:19PM -0500, John David Anglin wrote:
> > > Reported in the Wall Street Journal Dec. 14, 1999, see
> > > <http://www.linuxcare.com/company/press/1999/12-14-99_puffin.epl>.  It was
> > > stated that the Puffin Group, a small group of Linux buffs who have been
> > > helping Hewlett-Packard Co., is being purchased by Linuxcare Inc.  Alex
> > > Devries and Christopher Beard will become directors within Linuxcare's
> > > Professional Services Business Unit.
> > 
> > That's correct.  The Puffin Group will now be manning the phone lines

Oh, I thought they were going to sell systems to the medical profession.

-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)

Re: [parisc-linux] Puffin sells out!

[Alex deVries]

Eric Molitor wrote:
> >From all appearences HP has a strong interest in porting Linux to the
> PA-Risc architecture (at least the 2.0 arch.). If I recall correctly
> aren't there some HP employees whom get paid to work on the port (at least
> for 2.0). 

There are, yes.  Take a bow, Grant Grundler and Paul Bame.

> Regardless I've allready heard rumors that the port is dead from
> several people whom are quite distanced from the actual port.

Anyone who thinks this port is dead clearly hasn't been reading the CVS
mailing list or reading the weekly summary of changes.

- Alex

-- 
Alex deVries
Vice President of Engineering
The Puffin Group

Re: [parisc-linux] HP releasing docs...

[Alex deVries]

Alan Cox wrote:
> > Ideally, though, developers will have access to all the hardware they're
> > porting to.
> Irrespective of who they work for ?

I actually meant that they'd have docs for the hardware they're porting
too, but this is true too.

I think we've been pretty blind in giving hardware out at the start, and
I don't see this changing.

However, what doesn't make sense is to ship people hardware that contain
critical components that either a) don't yet have drivers written or b)
we can't send docs on.

- Alex

-- 
Alex deVries
Vice President of Engineering
The Puffin Group

Re: [parisc-linux] Puffin sells out!

[Philipp Rumpf]

> > Regardless I've allready heard rumors that the port is dead from
> > several people whom are quite distanced from the actual port.
> Anyone who thinks this port is dead clearly hasn't been reading the CVS
> mailing list or reading the weekly summary of changes.

Just for anyone who wants to be told this by one more person:

I don't believe the port will be negatively influenced by LC buying TPG.
In fact, I agree with Alex that the most likely result is positive.

There is the remote possibility that LC starts behaving stupid, but I
don't think it's worth it to think about that before it actually happened.

	Philipp Rumpf

Re: [parisc-linux] HP releasing docs...

[Alan Cox]

> Oddly enough what about those of us out there with copies of old HP/UX?
> Having only an old copy of HP/UX there is no way that I can compile a

HP released the SOM linker source so hopefully that will get solved and 
allow cross compiles eventually.

Re: [parisc-linux] HP releasing docs...

[Eric Molitor]

On Thu, 16 Dec 1999, Alex deVries wrote:

> Alan Cox wrote:
> > > Ideally, though, developers will have access to all the hardware they're
> > > porting to.
> > Irrespective of who they work for ?
> 
> I actually meant that they'd have docs for the hardware they're porting
> too, but this is true too.
> 
> I think we've been pretty blind in giving hardware out at the start, and
> I don't see this changing.
> 
> However, what doesn't make sense is to ship people hardware that contain
> critical components that either a) don't yet have drivers written or b)
> we can't send docs on.

Oddly enough what about those of us out there with copies of old HP/UX?
Having only an old copy of HP/UX there is no way that I can compile a
kernel. Is there anyway a machine can be put online for uses such as this?
(Similar to what debian is doing with the Rebel Computing ne Corel
Netwinder?) I've got a machine and a DS3 at work which can be utilized for
such a purpose. (Via our client Novare we allready host the Debian master
server. [master.debian.org]) I just dont have an OS...

Is there any interest in this?

- Eric Molitor

Re: [parisc-linux] HP releasing docs...

[John David Anglin]

> Oddly enough what about those of us out there with copies of old HP/UX?
> Having only an old copy of HP/UX there is no way that I can compile a
> kernel. Is there anyway a machine can be put online for uses such as this?

How old is your HP-UX?  I was able to build with 9.01.  If you let me
know what the problem is, there may a solution to resolve the problems
that you are having.

Dave
-- 
J. David Anglin                                  dave.anglin@nrc.ca
National Research Council of Canada              (613) 990-0752 (FAX: 952-6605)