From: Olivier Galibert <galibert@pobox.com>
To: Jaroslav Kysela <perex@suse.cz>
Cc: Tomasz K?oczko <kloczek@rudy.mif.pg.gda.pl>,
Pete Zaitcev <zaitcev@redhat.com>,
Alistair John Strachan <s0348365@sms.ed.ac.uk>,
Adrian Bunk <bunk@stusta.de>, Tomasz Torcz <zdzichu@irc.pl>,
Jan Engelhardt <jengelh@linux01.gwdg.de>, Andi Kleen <ak@suse.de>,
ALSA development <alsa-devel@alsa-project.org>,
James@superbug.demon.co.uk, sailer@ife.ee.ethz.ch,
linux-sound@vger.kernel.org, zab@zabbo.net,
kyle@parisc-linux.org, parisc-linux@lists.parisc-linux.org,
jgarzik@pobox.com, Thorsten Knabe <linux@thorsten-knabe.de>,
zwane@commfireservices.com, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [OT] ALSA userspace API complexity
Date: Thu, 05 Jan 2006 14:21:20 +0000 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20060105142120.GA28611@dspnet.fr.eu.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0601051305240.10350@tm8103.perex-int.cz>
On Thu, Jan 05, 2006 at 01:23:23PM +0100, Jaroslav Kysela wrote:
> It means that you are saying that kernel should be bigger and bigger.
> Please, see the graphics APIs. Why we have X servers in user space (and
> only some supporting code is in the kernel) then? It's because if we
> would move everything into kernel it will be even more bloated. The kernel
> should do really the basic things like direct hardware access, DMA
> transfer etc.
You plan to remove the network stack from the kernel when then? X is
in user space for some rather strange values of userspace[1] for
historical and political reasons, not technical ones. When
performance raises its ugly head and you end up having to listen to
engineers again you end up with DRI and that:
Module Size Used by
nvidia 3464380 12
X is a beautiful example of how things should not have been done. Its
only redeeming quality is that it exists and works, and that's
definitively a non-negligible one.
> But it's a question, if OSS application developers take this proposal.
You seem to be missing the point that the entire reason why OSS is
important is that it isn't a library.
OG.
[1] Direct hardware access, DMA, pci enumeration, hardware
reconfiguration, what a beautiful userspace we have there.
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2006-01-05 14:21 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 263+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2005-07-26 15:08 [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 15:41 ` Jesper Juhl
2005-07-26 15:46 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 15:41 ` Thomas Sailer
2005-07-26 15:48 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-07-26 16:04 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:49 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-26 17:49 ` John W. Linville
2005-07-26 15:51 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-26 15:57 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-07-26 16:02 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-27 18:24 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-27 20:31 ` John W. Linville
2005-07-27 20:43 ` Jeff Garzik
2005-07-28 13:44 ` Alan Cox
2005-07-28 13:43 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2005-07-28 14:15 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:30 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:17 ` Andrew Haninger
2005-07-31 19:29 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-26 16:27 ` Zach Brown
2005-07-26 21:41 ` Krzysztof Halasa
2005-07-26 23:38 ` Zoran Dzelajlija
2005-07-27 23:28 ` Lee Revell
2005-07-27 23:58 ` Rogério Brito
2005-07-28 8:09 ` Takashi Iwai
2005-07-31 19:36 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-27 18:39 ` Kyle McMartin
2005-07-28 3:01 ` [parisc-linux] Re: [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers Randolph Chung
2005-07-28 14:14 ` [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal Adrian Bunk
2005-07-28 15:04 ` Thorsten Knabe
2005-07-28 15:46 ` Adrian Bunk
2005-07-28 18:33 ` [Alsa-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for Lee Revell
2005-07-29 6:52 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2005-07-29 15:16 ` [Alsa-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal Adrian Bunk
2005-07-29 15:58 ` [Alsa-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for Thorsten Knabe
2005-07-31 19:39 ` [Alsa-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal Adrian Bunk
2005-08-01 14:26 ` Andrew Haninger
2005-08-02 0:13 ` [Alsa-devel] Re: [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for Thorsten Knabe
2005-08-02 5:05 ` Lee Revell
2005-08-02 15:55 ` Thorsten Knabe
2005-07-29 15:32 ` [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal (version 2) Adrian Bunk
2005-08-09 17:13 ` [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal (version Lee Revell
2005-08-09 17:49 ` [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal (version 2) Adrian Bunk
2005-08-09 17:54 ` [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal (version Lee Revell
2005-08-12 19:58 ` Lee Revell
2005-08-14 11:00 ` [2.6 patch] schedule OSS USB drivers for removal Adrian Bunk
2005-07-31 13:38 ` [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS " James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-03 13:21 ` Andi Kleen
2006-01-03 13:47 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 13:52 ` Andi Kleen
2006-01-03 13:58 ` David Lang
2006-01-03 14:33 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 14:34 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 14:01 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 18:24 ` Lee Revell
[not found] ` <mailman.1136300646.6679.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2006-01-04 11:13 ` Pete Zaitcev
2006-01-04 11:16 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-03 14:38 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-03 14:41 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 14:50 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-03 15:22 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 16:05 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-03 16:29 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 17:03 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 17:16 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-03 19:24 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 19:37 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-03 21:40 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 23:10 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 0:33 ` Thomas Sailer
2006-01-04 1:48 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-04 9:03 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-04 9:37 ` [OT] ALSA userspace API complexity Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-06 2:19 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-08 1:30 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-08 9:24 ` [Alsa-devel] " Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-08 22:47 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 10:51 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-09 13:05 ` René Rebe
2006-01-09 15:10 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-09 17:12 ` René Rebe
2006-01-09 21:58 ` David Lang
2006-01-09 23:20 ` John Rigg
2006-01-09 23:21 ` David Lang
2006-01-10 0:16 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 0:29 ` David Lang
2006-01-10 0:44 ` Alan Cox
2006-01-10 1:56 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-10 1:27 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 0:53 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 0:48 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 1:51 ` John Rigg
2006-01-10 2:17 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 14:05 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 14:17 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 14:39 ` Adam Tlałka
[not found] ` <mailman.1136368805.14661.linux-kernel2news@redhat.com>
2006-01-04 11:00 ` Pete Zaitcev
2006-01-04 11:35 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-04 11:47 ` Pete Zaitcev
2006-01-04 14:23 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-05 11:41 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-05 12:01 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-05 12:23 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-05 14:21 ` Olivier Galibert [this message]
2006-01-05 14:56 ` [parisc-linux] " Alan Cox
2006-01-05 21:14 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 15:07 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-05 16:14 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-05 17:19 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:13 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-07 14:32 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-08 2:03 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-08 2:26 ` Martin Drab
2006-01-08 13:21 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-08 13:32 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-08 23:18 ` Pavel Machek
2006-01-09 0:33 ` [Alsa-devel] " Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-09 12:24 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-09 17:49 ` Thierry Vignaud
2006-01-08 9:42 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-08 13:04 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-08 13:23 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-08 13:38 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-09 0:30 ` [Alsa-devel] " Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-05 23:06 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-05 23:39 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:56 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 0:03 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:40 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:59 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 15:03 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-06 15:48 ` Erik Mouw
2006-01-06 18:37 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-10 9:43 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 13:42 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 14:08 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 14:17 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 20:13 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 0:14 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 0:29 ` Martin Drab
2006-01-06 0:57 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 1:49 ` Martin Drab
2006-01-06 1:21 ` Zan Lynx
2006-01-06 15:17 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-06 3:14 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-06 3:33 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 11:34 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-06 7:47 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-07 14:45 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-05 18:56 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 22:39 ` Joern Nettingsmeier
2006-01-05 23:44 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-05 23:49 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-06 0:22 ` Joern Nettingsmeier
2006-01-06 1:30 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-06 2:20 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-10 9:54 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-10 13:50 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 0:00 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 12:47 ` Leonard Milcin Jr.
2006-01-04 12:13 ` [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal Joern Nettingsmeier
2006-01-04 12:35 ` Andi Kleen
2006-01-04 12:41 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-04 17:31 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-04 17:48 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-05 6:42 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-03 18:28 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-03 20:22 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-03 20:37 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-03 20:44 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-03 20:56 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-03 21:56 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-03 22:11 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-04 11:46 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-04 14:46 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-04 16:43 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 10:57 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 12:44 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 18:33 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:03 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:05 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:18 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:28 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:32 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 20:39 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:32 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:54 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 21:01 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 21:43 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-05 21:47 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 23:35 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-06 0:04 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-06 0:08 ` Jesper Juhl
2006-01-06 1:36 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 9:54 ` James Courtier-Dutton
2006-01-06 13:37 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 10:34 ` Gabor Gombas
2006-01-06 12:48 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-07 14:09 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-07 14:57 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-08 0:21 ` Hannu Savolainen
2006-01-06 2:40 ` Diego Calleja
2006-01-06 14:57 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-06 20:26 ` Jaroslav Kysela
2006-01-07 0:40 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-07 0:56 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-04 20:12 ` Kyle Moffett
2006-01-04 22:25 ` Olivier Galibert
2006-01-03 22:13 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-03 23:10 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-03 23:51 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 0:03 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-04 0:46 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 1:01 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-04 2:51 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 8:50 ` Alan Cox
2006-01-04 13:21 ` Greg Louis
2006-01-04 14:41 ` Adrian Bunk
2006-01-04 10:37 ` tapas
2006-01-04 17:28 ` Alistair John Strachan
2006-01-05 7:14 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-04 17:54 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-04 18:17 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-04 19:28 ` Marcin Dalecki
2006-01-04 19:52 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-05 7:11 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 11:15 ` Takashi Iwai
2006-01-05 21:20 ` Jim Crilly
2006-01-05 7:11 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 19:09 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-05 19:29 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:19 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 21:05 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-05 21:10 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 20:24 ` Edgar Toernig
2006-01-05 20:29 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 7:16 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 11:43 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-05 17:48 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-08 21:07 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-08 21:44 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-09 8:16 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-09 13:52 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-09 14:22 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-09 15:18 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-09 16:21 ` Ville Herva
2006-01-09 16:22 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 18:36 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 18:47 ` Tomasz Torcz
2006-01-05 19:10 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 19:15 ` Florian Schmidt
2006-01-04 0:28 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-04 1:38 ` Tomasz Kłoczko
2006-01-04 9:48 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-05 3:03 ` Peter Bortas
2006-01-05 7:13 ` Jan Engelhardt
2006-01-05 7:19 ` Lee Revell
2006-01-05 8:41 ` Stefan Smietanowski
2006-01-05 9:57 ` Peter Bortas
2006-01-03 17:09 ` Jan Engelhardt
2007-01-04 18:53 ` [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal, 3rd round Adrian Bunk
2007-01-04 21:31 ` [2.6 patch] schedule obsolete OSS drivers for removal, 3rd Benjamin Herrenschmidt
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