Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[Richard B. Johnson]

Reports are that Microsoft has been broken into. Although
Microsoft spokesmen deny it, reports are that the source-
code for Windows/2000 (professional) has been copied to
a country in the former Soviet Union.

I thought that this stuff had already been "released", but
nobody wanted it because they couldn't read it.


Cheers,
Dick Johnson

Penguin : Linux version 2.2.17 on an i686 machine (801.18 BogoMips).

"Memory is like gasoline. You use it up when you are running. Of
course you get it all back when you reboot..."; Actual explanation
obtained from the Micro$oft help desk.


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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[Tigran Aivazian]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Richard B. Johnson wrote:

> 
> Reports are that Microsoft has been broken into. Although
> Microsoft spokesmen deny it, reports are that the source-
> code for Windows/2000 (professional) has been copied to
> a country in the former Soviet Union.
> 
> I thought that this stuff had already been "released", but
> nobody wanted it because they couldn't read it.
> 

Yes, true.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_993000/993933.stm

I hope nobody will buy Microsoft products from now on, now that they are
not only filled with internal bugs but also with external ones introduced
by the guys from Leningrad... :)

But it is probably Microsoft's own original way of "releasing source under
GPL". Maybe they don't have the guts to admit that the proprietary
software model (in OS market, where Linux dominateth!) is a failure so
they make it look like some script-kiddie posted their source listings on
the Usenet (or wherever he is going to post them?) and so they "have no
choice but to release windoz under GPL" :)

Regards,
Tigran

PS. Leningrad is the old historical name of the modern St. Petersberg but
we "old-timers" do still call it Leningrad, it seems more appropriate than
all those "modern" name-changes... ;)



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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[David Weinehall]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 01:48:35PM +0100, Tigran Aivazian wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Richard B. Johnson wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Reports are that Microsoft has been broken into. Although
> > Microsoft spokesmen deny it, reports are that the source-
> > code for Windows/2000 (professional) has been copied to
> > a country in the former Soviet Union.
> > 
> > I thought that this stuff had already been "released", but
> > nobody wanted it because they couldn't read it.
> > 
> 
> Yes, true.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_993000/993933.stm
> 
> I hope nobody will buy Microsoft products from now on, now that they are
> not only filled with internal bugs but also with external ones introduced
> by the guys from Leningrad... :)
> 
> But it is probably Microsoft's own original way of "releasing source under
> GPL". Maybe they don't have the guts to admit that the proprietary
> software model (in OS market, where Linux dominateth!) is a failure so
> they make it look like some script-kiddie posted their source listings on
> the Usenet (or wherever he is going to post them?) and so they "have no
> choice but to release windoz under GPL" :)
> 
> Regards,
> Tigran
> 
> PS. Leningrad is the old historical name of the modern St. Petersberg but
> we "old-timers" do still call it Leningrad, it seems more appropriate than
> all those "modern" name-changes... ;)

You're VERY wrong here. St. Petersburg was the name before the Soviet
Union was formed and Russia marched into the Baltics. When the takeover
was made, the city was renamed Leningrad (after V.I. Lenin). When the
Soviet Union finally fell to pieces and the Baltics retained their freedom,
St. Petersburg retained its old name, which it got (if I'm not all wrong)
from Peter the Great.


/David
  _                                                                 _
 // David Weinehall <tao@acc.umu.se> /> Northern lights wander      \\
//  Project MCA Linux hacker        //  Dance across the winter sky //
\>  http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/    </   Full colour fire           </
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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[Tigran Aivazian]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, David Weinehall wrote:
> > PS. Leningrad is the old historical name of the modern St. Petersberg but
> > we "old-timers" do still call it Leningrad, it seems more appropriate than
> > all those "modern" name-changes... ;)
> 
> You're VERY wrong here. St. Petersburg was the name before the Soviet
> Union was formed and Russia marched into the Baltics. When the takeover
> was made, the city was renamed Leningrad (after V.I. Lenin). When the
> Soviet Union finally fell to pieces and the Baltics retained their freedom,
> St. Petersburg retained its old name, which it got (if I'm not all wrong)
> from Peter the Great.

Hi David!

I should have put a smiley there shouldn't I? :) Don't you think I must be
well aware of the origins of names of former soviet cities if I spent 20
(or almost 21) years of life there....

Regards,
Tigran

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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[Tigran Aivazian]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, Tigran Aivazian wrote:
> I should have put a smiley there shouldn't I? :) Don't you think I must be
> well aware of the origins of names of former soviet cities if I spent 20
> (or almost 21) years of life there....

actually, the final and ultimate authority on whether "old-timers" call
Piter "Leningrad" or "St. Petersburg" belongs to Al Viro - he knows
why. He can settle the dispute....

Regards,
Tigran

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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[Dmitri Pogosyan]

Tigran Aivazian wrote:

> On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, David Weinehall wrote:
> > > PS. Leningrad is the old historical name of the modern St. Petersberg but
> > > we "old-timers" do still call it Leningrad, it seems more appropriate than
> > > all those "modern" name-changes... ;)
> >
> > You're VERY wrong here. St. Petersburg was the name before the Soviet
> > Union was formed and Russia marched into the Baltics. When the takeover
> > was made, the city was renamed Leningrad (after V.I. Lenin). When the
> > Soviet Union finally fell to pieces and the Baltics retained their freedom,
> > St. Petersburg retained its old name, which it got (if I'm not all wrong)
> > from Peter the Great.

Speaking about Baltics, when St. Petersburg was original St. Petersburg,
Baltics were in Russia. It was renamed Leningrad at the (approximately)
same time Baltics were freed first time and Soviet Union was form, if you like
:).
SU matched back into Baltics later.

By the way St. Petersburg is not _formally_ after Peter the Great.
Peter the Great is not Saint.

And yes, my Mom who who was born there still calls it Leningrad (or Piter, but
not
St. Petersburg). And so am I.

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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[Petko Manolov]

David Weinehall wrote:
> 
> You're VERY wrong here. St. Petersburg was the name before the Soviet
> Union was formed and Russia marched into the Baltics. When the takeover
> was made, the city was renamed Leningrad (after V.I. Lenin). When the
> Soviet Union finally fell to pieces and the Baltics retained their freedom,
> St. Petersburg retained its old name, which it got (if I'm not all wrong)
> from Peter the Great.


AFAIK Tigran is born in the Soviet Union and i thing he knows
the history of his own country better ;-)

Anyway, i am bulgarian and i also am used to call St. Petersburg
Leningrad ;-))


best,
Petkan
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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[David Weinehall]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 04:05:50PM +0300, Petko Manolov wrote:
> David Weinehall wrote:
> > 
> > You're VERY wrong here. St. Petersburg was the name before the Soviet
> > Union was formed and Russia marched into the Baltics. When the takeover
> > was made, the city was renamed Leningrad (after V.I. Lenin). When the
> > Soviet Union finally fell to pieces and the Baltics retained their freedom,
> > St. Petersburg retained its old name, which it got (if I'm not all wrong)
> > from Peter the Great.
> 
> 
> AFAIK Tigran is born in the Soviet Union and i thing he knows
> the history of his own country better ;-)

Uhmmm. You known, being born in the Soviet Union (not a country in its
strictest sense), doesn't necessarily mean you know its history. And
considering that the span of the SSSR was quite enormous...

Anyhow:

The city was originally called Nyen and was formed by Swedes. 1703,
Peter the Great invaded the city, and 1712 the city became the capital
of Russia, named St. Petersburg. The name remained St. Petersburg until
1914, when it was renamed Petrograd. 1918, Moscow was made the capital
of Russia, and 1924 the city got renamed again, this time to Leningrad.

> Anyway, i am bulgarian and i also am used to call St. Petersburg
> Leningrad ;-))

Well, it's time for me, as a Swede, to begin calling it Nyen?!

Oh, let's end this silly debate. I'm getting sorry I even brought it
up.


/David
  _                                                                 _
 // David Weinehall <tao@acc.umu.se> /> Northern lights wander      \\
//  Project MCA Linux hacker        //  Dance across the winter sky //
\>  http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/    </   Full colour fire           </
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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[Tigran Aivazian]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, David Weinehall wrote:
> and 1924 the city got renamed again, this time to Leningrad.

ok, then a quiz question - was it renamed before or after Lenin's death?
(hint, Lenin died in 1924).

Regards,
Tigran

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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[David Weinehall]

On Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 02:24:53PM +0100, Tigran Aivazian wrote:
> On Fri, 27 Oct 2000, David Weinehall wrote:
> > and 1924 the city got renamed again, this time to Leningrad.
> 
> ok, then a quiz question - was it renamed before or after Lenin's death?
> (hint, Lenin died in 1924).

After his death. And the city was renamed back to St. Petersburg in
1991. With a 5 days-a-year long exception where the name
Leningrad is used in parallel, in rememberance of WWII.


/David
  _                                                                 _
 // David Weinehall <tao@acc.umu.se> /> Northern lights wander      \\
//  Project MCA Linux hacker        //  Dance across the winter sky //
\>  http://www.acc.umu.se/~tao/    </   Full colour fire           </
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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[Art Boulatov]

David Weinehall wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 04:05:50PM +0300, Petko Manolov wrote:
> > David Weinehall wrote:
> > >
> > > You're VERY wrong here. St. Petersburg was the name before the Soviet
> > > Union was formed and Russia marched into the Baltics. When the takeover
> > > was made, the city was renamed Leningrad (after V.I. Lenin). When the
> > > Soviet Union finally fell to pieces and the Baltics retained their freedom,
> > > St. Petersburg retained its old name, which it got (if I'm not all wrong)
> > > from Peter the Great.
> >
> >
> > AFAIK Tigran is born in the Soviet Union and i thing he knows
> > the history of his own country better ;-)
> 
> Uhmmm. You known, being born in the Soviet Union (not a country in its
> strictest sense), doesn't necessarily mean you know its history. And
> considering that the span of the SSSR was quite enormous...
> 
> Anyhow:
> 
> The city was originally called Nyen and was formed by Swedes. 1703,
> Peter the Great invaded the city, and 1712 the city became the capital
> of Russia, named St. Petersburg. The name remained St. Petersburg until
> 1914, when it was renamed Petrograd. 1918, Moscow was made the capital
> of Russia, and 1924 the city got renamed again, this time to Leningrad.
> 
> > Anyway, i am bulgarian and i also am used to call St. Petersburg
> > Leningrad ;-))
> 
> Well, it's time for me, as a Swede, to begin calling it Nyen?!
> 
> Oh, let's end this silly debate. I'm getting sorry I even brought it
> up.

Hi,

but since you did, :)

I will insist it is St. Petersburg :)

Art.
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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[dave]

On 27 Oct, Tigran Aivazian wrote:
[snip]
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_993000/993933.stm
> 
> I hope nobody will buy Microsoft products from now on, now that they are
> not only filled with internal bugs but also with external ones introduced
> by the guys from Leningrad... :)
> 
> But it is probably Microsoft's own original way of "releasing source under
> GPL". Maybe they don't have the guts to admit that the proprietary
> software model (in OS market, where Linux dominateth!) is a failure so
> they make it look like some script-kiddie posted their source listings on
> the Usenet (or wherever he is going to post them?) and so they "have no
> choice but to release windoz under GPL" :)
> 
> Regards,
> Tigran
> 
[snip]


It makes you wonder...
Having been a /real/ breakin, I would have thought MS would have hushed
any kind of press release.
The other side may be that the culprit tried to blackmail MS after the
fact.

If Bill said 'screw you' to the blackmailer and made the press release,
we should see the source on web sites soon.  Then we can see how bad it
really is.  Maybe even fix it.

-- 
Dave

I come from the net....  I search through systems, people, 
and cities to find this place... mainframe, my home.
My format: Guardian, to mend and defend.
Reboot!

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Helton, KD0YU    - dave@realworldcomputing.net  - http://www.kd0yu.com
Real World Computing  - 319-386-4041                 - 8am-5pm CST    
Linux/Novell/NT | Servers/Workstations | Consulting | Internet Technologies 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[J. Dow]

From: <dave@kd0yu.com>

> If Bill said 'screw you' to the blackmailer and made the press release,
> we should see the source on web sites soon.  Then we can see how bad it
> really is.  Maybe even fix it.

Dave, my partner has legal access to the MS source code. In some of my own
work I discovered an interesting apparent HAL bug related to the ACPI and
the PerformanceCounter API. A fix for a bad INTEL chip (24 bit counter that
doesn't always count correctly) was falsed by my K7M motherboard with a
700MHz Athlon on it. He adapts the HALs for some behemoth machines. So he
has seen the code involved. It is literally chock full of hacks and patches
and such - because of chip hardware defects. I'd be VERY careful about
casually going in and patching or repairing that source code based on such
dinnertable conversation about the HAL code as we've had. (I know no details.
I just know he regularly moans about it. - I bet he's having an interesting
day up there today. He's there for a meeting with the W2K folks. I'll have
to ask him how the anthill was today when he gets home.)

{^_-}    Joanne Dow, jdow@earthlink.net, jdow@bix.com, sysmgr@bix.com


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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[Dr. Kelsey Hudson]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 dave@kd0yu.com wrote:

> If Bill said 'screw you' to the blackmailer and made the press release,
> we should see the source on web sites soon.  Then we can see how bad it
> really is.  Maybe even fix it.

Why bother fixing it? It's too bloated and stupid in the first
place...That's why we run Linux.
Anyways, this is really causing too much clutter for this list.

 Kelsey Hudson                                           khudson@ctica.com 
 Software Engineer
 Compendium Technologies, Inc                               (619) 725-0771
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Re: Off-Topic (or maybe on-topic)

[Gerhard Mack]

On Fri, 27 Oct 2000 dave@kd0yu.com wrote:

> If Bill said 'screw you' to the blackmailer and made the press release,
> we should see the source on web sites soon.  Then we can see how bad it
> really is.  Maybe even fix it.
> 

Or better yet: use it to write an interface spec so we can get wine to run
anything windows does.
	Gerhard


--
Gerhard Mack

gmack@innerfire.net

<>< As a computer I find your faith in technology amusing.

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