From: Ignat Korchagin <ignat@linux.win>
To: Eric Biggers <ebiggers@kernel.org>, Kamran Khan <kz@inspirated.com>
Cc: Jeff Barnes <jeffbarnes@linux.microsoft.com>,
Andy Lutomirski <luto@amacapital.net>,
"linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org" <linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org>,
Herbert Xu <herbert@gondor.apana.org.au>,
"linux-doc@vger.kernel.org" <linux-doc@vger.kernel.org>,
"linux-api@vger.kernel.org" <linux-api@vger.kernel.org>,
"linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org" <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
"netdev@vger.kernel.org" <netdev@vger.kernel.org>,
Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] crypto: af_alg - Document the deprecation of AF_ALG
Date: Mon, 11 May 2026 22:03:21 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <3bfcf406-fdde-4303-9bd6-0d8d21ddba37@linux.win> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20260510163204.GA2279@sol>
On 10/05/2026 17:32, Eric Biggers wrote:
> On Sun, May 10, 2026 at 08:54:07AM -0700, Kamran Khan wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> AF_ALG is useful not just for hardware-offloading, but also for memory
>> isolation so that applications only get oracle access to the crypto keys and
>> a memory-safety vulnerability in user applications would not immediately put
>> the secret key material at risk.
> Note that if that memory-safety vulnerability leads to code execution in
> the application, then it doesn't matter that it "only" has oracle
> access. It can still decrypt any data encrypted by that key.
I don't think fully discounting hardware offloading is beneficial here.
HW accelerators will be produced and without a common interface vendors
would start implementing their own "bespoke" drivers with bespoke
userspace interfaces (we already had such proposals), which in turn may
introduce more attack surface. Yes, AF_ALG needs substantial
improvement, but at least it can be a standardisation point.
> The relevant threat model would be arbitrary reads, not any
> "memory-safety vulnerability".
>
>> I understand and appreciate the concern with complex attack surface and the
>> increased frequency of attacks in this area. But I fear that completely
>> removing AF_ALG increases the risk for userspace applications relying on it
>> for memory isolation.
>>
>> What alternatives do userspace applications have on Linux for ensuring
>> crypto keys are not exposed in user memory? That is, FreeBSD and NetBSD
>> natively provide /dev/crypto; removing AF_ALG would kill the only equivalent
>> option on the Linux side for kernel-delegated cryptography.
> The standard solution is simply to use an isolated userspace process
> like ssh-agent. Yes, the keys will be in "user memory". But "not
> exposed in user memory" is *not* a correct statement of the problem.
>
> (Also note that protecting not-actively-in-use data from arbitrary read
> primitives doesn't require cryptography at all. That can be done simply
> by using mprotect() to remove read permission from the memory, then
> temporarily adding it back when it needs to be accessed.)
>
> In any case, any hypothetical security benefit provided by AF_ALG would
> have to be *very high* to outweigh the continuous stream of
> vulnerabilities in it. I understand that people using AF_ALG might not
> be familiar with that continuous stream of vulnerabilities, but it would
Is it actually that much compared to other features/subsystems, like
eBPF or user namespaces? But we don't rush to deprecate those - instead
trying to harden them and come up with better design.
> be worth spending some time researching what has been going on.
>
> - Eric
Ignat
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2026-05-11 21:03 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 15+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
[not found] <20260430011544.31823-1-ebiggers@kernel.org>
2026-05-04 14:39 ` [PATCH] crypto: af_alg - Document the deprecation of AF_ALG Jon Kohler
2026-05-04 17:39 ` Eric Biggers
2026-05-04 18:12 ` Jeff Barnes
2026-05-04 18:24 ` Eric Biggers
2026-05-04 18:27 ` Simo Sorce
2026-05-04 17:41 ` Jeff Barnes
2026-05-05 9:31 ` Herbert Xu
2026-05-05 23:17 ` Andy Lutomirski
2026-05-06 0:17 ` Eric Biggers
2026-05-06 14:42 ` Jeff Barnes
2026-05-10 15:54 ` Kamran Khan
2026-05-10 16:32 ` Eric Biggers
2026-05-10 18:06 ` Andy Lutomirski
2026-05-11 21:03 ` Ignat Korchagin [this message]
2026-05-11 21:38 ` Eric Biggers
Reply instructions:
You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:
* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
and reply-to-all from there: mbox
Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style
* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
switches of git-send-email(1):
git send-email \
--in-reply-to=3bfcf406-fdde-4303-9bd6-0d8d21ddba37@linux.win \
--to=ignat@linux.win \
--cc=ebiggers@kernel.org \
--cc=herbert@gondor.apana.org.au \
--cc=jeffbarnes@linux.microsoft.com \
--cc=kz@inspirated.com \
--cc=linux-api@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-crypto@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-doc@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=luto@amacapital.net \
--cc=netdev@vger.kernel.org \
--cc=torvalds@linux-foundation.org \
/path/to/YOUR_REPLY
https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html
* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line
before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox