OE TSC minutes 12 February 2013

OE TSC minutes 12 February 2013

[Jeff Osier-Mixon]

OpenEmbedded Technical Steering Committee
12 February 2013

Attendees:
  Richard (RP)
  Koen (koen)
  Khem (khem)
  Fray (fray)
  Paul (bluelightning)

Notes: Jefro
________________________________________________________________
Agenda & Results

1. pick a chair
fray
___________________________________
2. new issues

a. mailing list outage
no one sure what went wrong, probably disk space
main problem is nobody around w/admin
 (too few admins at linuxtogo)
possible transition to LF or YP
** list addresses would not change
=> jefro volunteers to help if possible
=> jefro to talk to board + mhalstead & ka6sox

b. meta-oe appends/overlayed recipes RFC
http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2013-February/043925.html
=> Paul to talk to Chris about a release
no avr32 support in public layers

___________________________________
3. lingering issues

 a. raise awareness of "janitor" list, QA "bugs"

 b. document whitespace changes to the shell
http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Commit_Patch_Message_Guidelines
http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/Styleguide
also https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Recipe_%26_Patch_Style_Guide
=> need to de-dup these

 c. SMART has replaced zypper (was documenting RPM and package feeds)
Paul wrote:
https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Smart_Repository_Setup

 d. patchwork queue
=> Paul to talk to scottrif about adding to docs

 e. raise ntp with the Yocto Project [RP]
immediate need addressed, reasonable default needed
use LICENSE_FLAGS - non-commercial
=> RP/Jefro to raise at next AB

 f. oe-classic recipe migration status
RP played with perl modules, fixed up cpan_build.bbclass

 g. some items dropped from oe-core but not yet in meta-oe

___________________________________
4. status

 a. oe-core release

 b. infrastructure
mailing list issue described above
wiki spam issues
wiki requires updating & spam module
=> jefro/khem to talk to wmat for help

 c. 1.4 planning
systemd into master - still in progress

________________________________________________________________
Raw Transcript

(8:59:47 AM) Jefro: good morning all
(9:00:40 AM) bluelightning: hi Jefro, fray, RP, koen-
(9:01:57 AM) Jefro: I'm not sure who is actually here
(9:02:03 AM) Jefro: I'll ping khem also
(9:02:06 AM) fray: I'm here
(9:02:30 AM) RP: Morning all!
(9:03:37 AM) fray: morning..
(9:04:08 AM) koen-: morning all
(9:04:32 AM) bluelightning: hi
(9:04:35 AM) bluelightning: ok so we are just missing khem then
(9:04:52 AM) fray: I think so..
(9:05:03 AM) Jefro: I just pinged him, no response so he is probably in traffic
(9:05:03 AM) fray: for the agenda, is there any thing we need to
discuss in relationship to the mail list outtage/
(9:05:25 AM) bluelightning: I think we should have it on the agenda yes
(9:05:35 AM) Jefro: yup, it's there
(9:05:38 AM) RP: I have no idea what happened, not sure if anyone else does
(9:05:45 AM) Jefro: any other new issues? I'll put them on before I pastebin it
(9:06:07 AM) fray: only other thing perhaps is the meta-oe
appends/overlayed recipes RFC..
(9:06:14 AM) fray: but I'm not sure we have anything ot discuss here
(9:07:02 AM) bluelightning: the solutions for most parts seem pretty clear
(9:07:09 AM) fray: ok
(9:07:18 AM) bluelightning: there are a couple of unresolved questions
still though
(9:07:37 AM) Jefro: ok, here it is: http://pastebin.com/PvgKvYMf
(9:08:02 AM) RP: I chaired the last one so someone else today ;-)
(9:08:36 AM) fray: I can do it
(9:09:00 AM) Jefro: fray thanks
(9:09:20 AM) fray: ok then.. I'd suggest we hold off on hte mailig
list outtage topic for a bit and see if Khem gets through traffic..
(9:09:22 AM) fray: ok?
(9:09:36 AM) khem
[~khem@99-57-140-209.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] entered the
room.
(9:09:36 AM) mode (+v khem) by ChanServ
(9:09:43 AM) fray: hey and here he is!
(9:09:48 AM) bluelightning: nice :)
(9:09:51 AM) fray: ok.. back.. on topic then
(9:09:54 AM) khem: yes, hi all
(9:09:58 AM) bluelightning: hi khem
(9:10:04 AM) fray: khem: http://pastebin.com/PvgKvYMf
(9:10:07 AM) fray: just gettign started
(9:10:13 AM) fray: 2a - mailing list outtage
(9:10:30 AM) fray: As RP mentioned earlier.. nobody is even sure if
anyone knows what went wrong..
(9:10:35 AM) khem: thanks
(9:10:57 AM) bluelightning: the first problem as with last time is
that nobody with admin privileges could be raised for several hours
(9:11:25 AM) khem: no one on US has admin privs
(9:11:26 AM) bluelightning: that's not the fault of the folks with
admin privs, it's that there are too few such people for the
linuxtogo.org servers
(9:11:32 AM) fray: There are two folks who admin privileges?  Florian and?
(9:11:33 AM) khem: so even if we were awake we could not help
(9:11:44 AM) khem: I think RP is
(9:12:21 AM) Jefro: what was the issue that brought it down?
(9:12:35 AM) khem: is ltg maintained well
(9:12:46 AM) koen-: I suspect ltg ran out of diskspace again
(9:12:58 AM) koen-: the backup script seems to need 200GB free
(9:13:00 AM) fray: Symptom wise, that wouldn't surprise me..
(9:13:02 AM) koen-: which there isn't
(9:13:16 AM) koen-: I couldn't upload packages to the angstrom feeds due to that
(9:13:30 AM) koen-: after a few days there was 170GiB available again
(9:13:32 AM) khem: I wonder if it would make sense to move the mls to oe.org
(9:13:42 AM) fray: a few people on IRC were wondering why Linux
Foundation resources (amili servers) aren't being used.. since much of
the other infrastructure has transitioned
(9:13:45 AM) ***RP is not an ltg admin
(9:14:02 AM) khem: gm RP
(9:14:06 AM) fray: amili -> mail
(9:14:10 AM) khem: somehow I thought you were
(9:14:43 AM) RP: We could host the OE list on the yp server if it would help
(9:14:47 AM) koen-: florian, nils and pb are admins
(9:14:57 AM) RP: khem: I am for OE and YP but not ltg
(9:15:01 AM) khem: I think if ltg is not recoursed enough then we
might have these kind of issues often
(9:15:29 AM) khem: if its running out of disk space e.g.
(9:16:00 AM) fray: I know that the usage pattern of both oe-core and
oe-dev have really picked up.. (lots more discussion and patches then
say two years or so ago)
(9:16:09 AM) fray: that may certainly be contributing..
(9:16:24 AM) fray: ok.. so is there anything as the oe-tsc that we
should do or recommend to the board?
(9:16:45 AM) koen-: florian/nils have offered to give admin privs to
people wanting to look after it
(9:17:21 AM) Jefro: I have access to -members (in order to prune) but
not ssh access, so I don't think that counts
(9:17:27 AM) bluelightning: that would be a good first step
(9:17:41 AM) Jefro: I'd be happy to volunteer but it would also
require a small bit of mailman training
(9:17:54 AM) bluelightning: if additional hardware is needed OE should
probably look to pay for it (and request donations for same if needed)
(9:17:58 AM) RP: well, the question is whether we have anyone willing
to help with the admin load of another server
(9:17:59 AM) fray: ya.. getting another person in NA would likely help
the situation..
(9:18:23 AM) fray: is this something that can have a call-out on the
member's list?
(9:18:24 AM) khem: yeah I think we dont know state of ltg. May be its
good enough to handle stuff
(9:18:26 AM) Jefro: I'll take the AR and follow up. I need to learn
more about mailman anyway.
(9:18:36 AM) RP: I know the YP has Michael but I'd really prefer the
lists be hosted on the YP server in those circumstances
(9:18:36 AM) khem: I would suggest to move the services under oe.org
(9:18:54 AM) khem: yp.org is also ok
(9:19:03 AM) fray: I'm not against that either..
(9:19:12 AM) RP: khem: lists.openembedded.org could point at a YP server
(9:19:23 AM) khem: RP: yes
(9:19:27 AM) khem: thats ok by me
(9:19:32 AM) bluelightning: that also sounds OK to me
(9:19:34 AM) RP: Jefro: It does sound more like a general sysadmin
issue. If its out of diskspace, would you know which files to delete?
(9:19:40 AM) khem: if we get better maintenance
(9:19:46 AM) khem: nothing like that
(9:19:58 AM) Jefro: RP not at this point. I'm willing to learn, but it
would probably be better if Michael could do it.
(9:20:06 AM) RP: So it sounds like we need to talk to the board and
Michael. Any volunteers to do that?
(9:20:26 AM) Jefro: that's an AR I can handle :)
(9:20:33 AM) fray: ok, it's you.. :)
(9:20:44 AM) fray: anything else on this topic then?
(9:20:49 AM) khem: Jefro is volunteered
(9:20:54 AM) RP: Technically we need to discuss with the YP too but
I'll take responsibility there and say its fine.
(9:21:28 AM) fray: ok then..  2b -- meta-oe appends/overlayed recipes RFC..
(9:21:32 AM) RP: Jefro: I think the board would agree, right? :)
(9:21:56 AM) Jefro: I would be shocked if the board had any problems,
but we can mention it next week
(9:22:38 AM) bluelightning: so, the issues with this that are still in
question are: tslib; xserver-nodm-init, and gst-ffmpeg/libav
(9:22:42 AM) fray: I see good progress in discussions on the mailing
list -- is there anything we need to discuss here, status/lingering
questions?  I'd certainly like to see the appends go away for the most
part..
(9:23:02 AM) RP: I'd like to thank Paul for raising the issue :)
(9:23:04 AM) fray: Is the PACKAGECONFIG stuff enough for those?  or?
(9:23:04 AM) bluelightning: for reference, the RFC:
http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2013-February/043925.html
(9:23:26 AM) RP: tslib is probably a case for putting pressure on
Chris for a release
(9:23:37 AM) bluelightning: RP: that's what I was thinking
(9:23:55 AM) bluelightning: I can take the AR to do that
(9:23:55 AM) RP: We could take the ffmpeg/libav stuff into the core
subject to correct license tags
(9:24:17 AM) RP: xserver-nodm-init I don't know the history of,
probably needs someone to resolve the differences
(9:24:20 AM) RP: It does need to be done
(9:24:20 AM) koen-: bluelightning: feel free to drop the avr32 patch in libmad
(9:24:34 AM) bluelightning: koen-: ok... is it no longer of value then?
(9:25:28 AM) fray: so it sounds like me, we have a clear path for
everything except xserver-nodm-init?
(9:25:42 AM) koen-: bluelightning: no avr32 support in public layers
(9:26:09 AM) bluelightning: koen-: well, there are a few references,
but you're right, no machines that I'm aware of that use that
TARGET_ARCH
(9:26:55 AM) koen-: exactly
(9:27:00 AM) bluelightning: I'd also note generally I'm still waiting
to hear back from Martin Jansa since I figured he might have an
opinion on the RFC
(9:27:17 AM) RP: re: xserver-nodm-init, I probably know some of the
history if there are specific questions
(9:27:46 AM) bluelightning: well, the general question is how can we
eliminate the duplication
(9:27:51 AM) RP: I think its a case of nobody wants to touch it :/
(9:28:00 AM) fray: :)
(9:28:07 AM) bluelightning: so far that has been the pattern, it has
been raised numerous times
(9:28:18 AM) RP: I'd propose deleting the meta-oe version
(9:28:22 AM) RP: see who complains :)
(9:28:27 AM) fray: there ya go.. :)
(9:28:42 AM) bluelightning: JaMa at least would probably have
something to say about that :)
(9:28:43 AM) koen-: RP: martin and I tried to get the meta-oe version
into oe-core a year ago
(9:29:16 AM) fray: I think the key thing, from the original goal of
meta-oe (way back when we first met on oe-core/meta-oe) was to use it
as a temporary space for appends (as necessary).. key being temporary,
until it could be put into oe-core (or dropped)
(9:29:16 AM) koen-: RP: but the oe-core maintainer couldn't grasp our
usecase and it was before the big X.org cleanup
(9:29:51 AM) fray: with the cleanup, does it make sense to try again?
(9:29:52 AM) bluelightning: fray: I don't think that purpose ought to
be supported anymore
(9:30:12 AM) bluelightning: just causes too much mess
(9:30:17 AM) fray: bluelightning I'm inclined to agree with you..
(9:30:26 AM) koen-: systemd-user-sessions are a much better way to do it
(9:30:34 AM) RP: koen-: So rather than explain it further you gave up?
(9:30:36 AM) ***koen- has a ton of recipes to make that work
(9:30:42 AM) fray: I was originally thinking experimental features,
etc.. but always with an eye of getting things into oe-core
(9:30:43 AM) koen-: RP: not really
(9:30:54 AM) koen-: RP: after a while we hit the usual brick wall
(9:31:02 AM) RP: koen-: "usual"?
(9:31:07 AM) koen-: and then we focused on merging the meta-oe X.org stuff
(9:31:26 AM) bluelightning: fray: if people want a shared layer to do
that, I've no objection... as long as it's not the same layer that has
useful stable additional recipes as meta-oe does
(9:31:45 AM) fray: ya, and I think that's one of the things that has changed..
(9:31:55 AM) fray: meta-oe is a lot more stable then it had originally
been thought to be..
(9:32:03 AM) fray: (not a complaint mind you!)
(9:32:09 AM) khem: fray: meta-oe should be seen as extention of oe-core
(9:32:42 AM) RP: My main concern with it has been the mix of distro
policy and recipes
(9:33:03 AM) RP: We're reaching a point where that is nearly resolved
and I think we need to maintain that
(9:33:19 AM) fray: RP, that is the place I'm seeing more focus on from
you and others..  distro policy settings vs simply recipe
integration..  it's a good thing and as you said, we need to maintain
this work..
(9:33:50 AM) fray: I think it speaks highly of the project and users
that distro policy is an issue vs "I can't integrate recipes cause
it's too hard"
(9:34:52 AM) fray: ok then.. what are the next steps to this..
(9:35:11 AM) RP: Its why the YP compatible status spells this out, its
one of the hardest things to achieve yet it also helps the users the
most
(9:35:15 AM) fray: Finish up the work for the packages other then the
xservers-nodm-init..
(9:35:25 AM) fray: work on getting that integrated or dropped as a
separate item?
(9:35:33 AM) bluelightning: fray: well, we've resolved everything
except the xserver-nodm-init, that needs further input from those that
currently use the meta-oe version
(9:35:45 AM) bluelightning: fray: I'm working on patchsets to tackle
everything else
(9:35:46 AM) RP: I don't know what the differences are so its hard to commit
(9:35:51 AM) RP: comment
(9:36:00 AM) fray: and focus on only doing bbappends in oe-core when
specifically necessary -- otherwise it should be in oe-core?
(9:36:14 AM) RP: I would point out that a step by step series of
logical changes does help me a lot with review
(9:36:36 AM) RP: simply copying the meta-oe version over the oe-core
one will not be helpful
(9:37:06 AM) RP: meld is great for creating that kind of thing
(9:37:39 AM) bluelightning: http://pastebin.com/e8DyTP1M
(9:38:45 AM) RP: so rootless X support is one difference
(9:38:45 AM) bluelightning: I can't get much from that diff I have to say
(9:38:58 AM) bluelightning: but I'm not particularly familiar with the
problem space
(9:39:00 AM) RP: and one is machine specific, the other is allarch
(9:39:11 AM) RP: It might be possible just to rename one of them
(9:39:11 AM) khem: hmmm oe-core one is machine_arch specfic
(9:39:21 AM) khem: but meta-oe is allarch
(9:39:27 AM) RP: If angstrom and shr use it in their feeds, I'll take
a rename to the core one
(9:39:37 AM) RP: since there are less distro feed issues with core
(9:40:01 AM) RP: khem: its due to the rootless X support which works
on some machines, not others
(9:40:30 AM) bluelightning: presumably machines with drivers that support KMS ?
(9:40:33 AM) RP: bluelightning: are the scripts themselves different?
(9:40:36 AM) khem: INITSCRIPT_PARAMS change is probablt disto specific
(9:40:42 AM) khem: it should move to distro layers
(9:41:00 AM) RP: bluelightning: Intel gen graphics supports it basically
(9:41:08 AM) RP: khem: sane defaults are fine
(9:41:16 AM) RP: khem: distros can then change if needed/wanted
(9:41:50 AM) khem: yes
(9:41:58 AM) khem: however we have
(9:41:58 AM) khem: -INITSCRIPT_PARAMS = "start 9 5 2 . stop 20 0 1 6 ."
(9:41:59 AM) khem: +INITSCRIPT_PARAMS = "start 01 5 2 . stop 01 0 1 6 ."
(9:41:59 AM) khem: +INITSCRIPT_PARAMS_shr = "start 90 5 2 . stop 90 0 1 6 ."
(9:42:09 AM) bluelightning: RP: yes
(9:42:11 AM) bluelightning: RP: http://pastebin.com/MmPKzZ26
(9:43:10 AM) fray: ok.. lets take this to the mailing list, and go on
to the next topic(s)
(9:43:23 AM) fray: 3a -- janitor/qa bugs.. I don't have anything here
(9:43:26 AM) bluelightning: yep, I think that's probably best
(9:43:29 AM) khem:        yes
(9:43:59 AM) fray: 3b -- has anyone gotten to this yet?  if not we
should keep it on and I'll try to get to it after ELC
(9:44:17 AM) RP: Just to round off, I suspect we should try and make
that recipe allarch for the machines that don't support rootless X
(9:44:28 AM) RP: there don't appear to be many other significant differences
(9:45:34 AM) RP: fray: no one has got to it that I know of
(9:45:38 AM) fray: ok..
(9:45:48 AM) fray: 3c  then.. does anyone remember what this one is
about (RPM and package feeds)?
(9:46:02 AM) RP: fray: documenting them?
(9:46:18 AM) fray: Ahh, very well could be..  Jefro can you add that to the item
(9:46:27 AM) khem: fray: it was probably documenting how to setup
feeds using smart/rpm
(9:46:32 AM) bluelightning: FWIW I did write
https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Smart_Repository_Setup
(9:46:37 AM) fray: bluelightning I havn't gotten to that, have you?
(9:46:44 AM) bluelightning: that's a start at least
(9:47:02 AM) fray: excellent..  ok.. we should add the reference to
that as well as the start of whatever we do..
(9:47:09 AM) RP: What else remains?
(9:47:09 AM) fray: ok.. 3d -- patchwork queue?
(9:47:10 AM) bluelightning: we probably ought to have that in the
manual, I can take an AR to talk to Scott about that
(9:47:16 AM) fray: thanks
(9:47:25 AM) RP: bluelightning: please do, it'd be good to get it in there
(9:47:34 AM) RP: Scott loves me this week :/
(9:47:37 AM) bluelightning: re patchwork, I think Martin is doing a
good job of keeping on top of it now; I'm continuing to help when I
notice things
(9:47:41 AM) Jefro: fray added to my notes
(9:48:10 AM) khem: bluelightning: yes I am very happy with
meta-openembedded queue is always sane
(9:48:12 AM) bluelightning: (note, we're talking about the main OE
patchwork, not OE-Core / bitbake)
(9:48:12 AM) fray: bluelightning does 3d need to remain on the issues
list, or is it under control?
(9:48:16 AM) RP: otavio was asking about patchwork for one of his layers
(9:48:18 AM) khem: remove it
(9:48:22 AM) bluelightning: fray: I think we can drop it now
(9:48:25 AM) fray: ok
(9:48:38 AM) fray: 3e - NTP -- RP did you get a chance to talk to the YP?
(9:48:41 AM) bluelightning: khem: yes I think Otavio might be pinging you soon
(9:48:48 AM) RP: fray: AB meeting next week
(9:48:51 AM) fray: ok..
(9:48:57 AM) khem: bluelightning: yes he has :)
(9:48:59 AM) fray: 3f then.. oe-classic recipe migration status
(9:49:06 AM) RP: Jefro: this is on the agenda, right?
(9:49:21 AM) khem: I have contributed a few migrations from oe-classic
(9:49:21 AM) ***Jefro looks
(9:49:29 AM) khem: into different layers
(9:49:39 AM) Jefro: RP yes, 3f
(9:49:39 AM) RP: I have a few migrations for oe-classic, need to post them...
(9:49:46 AM) RP: I assume i just send to the oe-devel list?
(9:49:48 AM) bluelightning: RP: please do
(9:49:58 AM) RP: Jefro: I mean the AB meeting agenda?
(9:50:00 AM) khem: I think we now have a good set I feel
(9:50:02 AM) bluelightning: RP: yes, with [meta-oe] prefix
(9:50:15 AM) ***RP must remember to do that
(9:50:18 AM) bluelightning: FWIW I'm continuing to keep the wiki page up-to-date
(9:50:29 AM) RP: it mostly perl modules
(9:50:31 AM) Jefro: RP ah - yes it is (one of the only things on the
AB agenda atm)
(9:50:40 AM) RP: Jefro: ok, cool
(9:50:42 AM) fray: so 3f should stay on the agenda for a bit longer?
(9:50:43 AM) bluelightning: I'll note that a few bits that have been
dropped from OE-Core recently have not yet made it into meta-oe
(9:51:05 AM) fray: bluelightning, does that need a tracking item -- or
are we good?
(9:51:16 AM) RP: bluelightning: Beat up Ross?
(9:51:26 AM) bluelightning: RP: I pinged Ross about it, but am unsure
if he's going to post patches or not
(9:51:44 AM) RP: bluelightning: ok, I'd assumed this was being
handled. Need to make sure things don't get lost
(9:52:00 AM) fray: jefro, I'd suggest a tracking / issues agenda item
then for next time..
(9:52:05 AM) fray: oe-core items (removed) going to meta-oe
(9:52:12 AM) bluelightning: might as well
(9:52:15 AM) Jefro: fray ok
(9:52:16 AM) RP: bluelightning: get a definitive answer out of Ross,
if he hasn't time, let me know, you/I will probably have to
(9:52:23 AM) bluelightning: RP: ok, will do
(9:52:37 AM) fray: 3g then -- is this a duplicate of 3c?
(9:52:46 AM) RP: fray: looks to be
(9:53:00 AM) fray: I'd say drop 3c then -- add the reference to pauls
page to 3g.. for next time
(9:53:12 AM) fray: ok any other lingering issues?
(9:53:28 AM) bluelightning: we still have wiki spam issues
(9:53:35 AM) bluelightning: I guess that's 4b
(9:53:46 AM) fray: ok.. lets just jump to 4b then..
(9:53:51 AM) khem: yes wiki spam issue is still there
(9:53:59 AM) khem: we need to cut open registration
(9:54:00 AM) RP: How are the people getting accounts?
(9:54:00 AM) khem: that helps
(9:54:04 AM) bluelightning: we're starting to see more actual spam
content being added
(9:54:07 AM) bluelightning: RP: not sure
(9:54:08 AM) fray: I thought open regs were already disabled
(9:54:21 AM) khem: RP: someone with account has to sponsor
(9:54:24 AM) khem: on mailing list
(9:54:35 AM) RP: sounds like its an old version of the wiki and needs upgrading
(9:54:42 AM) RP: probably has some hole in it :/
(9:54:51 AM) bluelightning: wouldn't be too surprising
(9:55:01 AM) khem: RP: its media wiki I think from last year
(9:55:01 AM) RP: I know when I looked, I noted it was old
(9:55:09 AM) RP: khem: way too old :(
(9:55:14 AM) Jefro: it could also be that a legitimate person's
account has been compromisaed and that is being used to sponsor
(9:55:14 AM) khem: heh I guess
(9:55:14 AM) bluelightning: is it hosted on ltg or oe servers?
(9:55:19 AM) RP: bluelightning: oe
(9:55:23 AM) khem: I am not familiar with wiki upgrade
(9:55:31 AM) khem: but RP if you or someone knows it
(9:55:35 AM) khem: it would be nice
(9:55:51 AM) RP: khem: I've never done it before in my life. I have
enough general software background to fudge it
(9:55:53 AM) Jefro: I know someone with wiki experience & can check to
see if he can help
(9:56:11 AM) khem: I can see if wmat has some time
(9:56:14 AM) fray: sounds like a good suggestion
(9:56:18 AM) Jefro: khem :) that's who I was thinking of
(9:56:27 AM) khem: Jefro: cool ping him
(9:56:33 AM) Jefro: doing right now
(9:56:46 AM) RP: I suspect an upgrade will fix some of the problems
(9:56:54 AM) khem: hopefully
(9:57:17 AM) khem: turnkey linux has good wiki appliances
(9:57:19 AM) fray: ok.. any other infrastructure issues?  (we already
covered mailing list)
(9:57:37 AM) khem: fray: 3g could be closed
(9:57:44 AM) khem: I missed if it was already discussed
(9:57:48 AM) fray: khem, the documentation bit isn't done yet
(9:58:21 AM) khem:
https://wiki.yoctoproject.org/wiki/Smart_Repository_Setup isnt it
enough ?
(9:58:47 AM) khem: more documentation is always nice so keep it open
:) I dont mind
(9:58:50 AM) fray: it needs to end up in the manual -- and at the
least a link on the oe-core site..
(9:58:54 AM) khem: I se
(9:58:55 AM) khem: e
(9:59:26 AM) fray: ok.. 4a then.. oe-core release?
(9:59:38 AM) fray: (we've got 1 minute left)  ;)
(9:59:39 AM) khem: on systemd, I am trying to port over the meta-oe
bbappends to systemd class of oe-core
(10:00:18 AM) fray: 4c -- systemd --  khem, does it look like
everything will be ported in time for the "spring" release of oe-core?
(10:00:36 AM) RP: the -rc2 did happen, it did get rerun a second time
as I wasn't happy with the first build
(10:00:42 AM) RP: Its now been released
(10:00:49 AM) fray: excellent..
(10:00:51 AM) RP: we're trending ok for M4
(10:00:53 AM) khem: fray: I am trying
(10:00:55 AM) fray: ok
(10:01:03 AM) RP: lots of postinstall changes but looking good at the moment
(10:01:04 AM) khem: fray: hope is to have it in 1.4 done
(10:01:14 AM) fray: ...and with that, times up...  anything else
before we all flee?
(10:01:22 AM) khem: nothing frm me
(10:01:23 AM) RP: we need sort out the remaining pieces of systemd but
again, its trending well
(10:01:23 AM) bluelightning: I've got nothing else
(10:01:29 AM) ***RP is done
(10:01:37 AM) fray: excellent..
(10:01:40 AM) fray: meeting done then..
(10:01:42 AM) fray: thanks all!
(10:01:49 AM) khem: thanks all

--
Jeff Osier-Mixon http://jefro.net/blog
Yocto Project Community Manager @Intel http://yoctoproject.org

Re: OE TSC minutes 12 February 2013

[Martin Jansa]

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On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 10:28:51PM -0800, Jeff Osier-Mixon wrote:
> b. meta-oe appends/overlayed recipes RFC
> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2013-February/043925.html
> => Paul to talk to Chris about a release

tslib release (it's not clear without reading whole log

> (9:23:04 AM) bluelightning: for reference, the RFC:
> http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-devel/2013-February/043925.html
> (9:23:26 AM) RP: tslib is probably a case for putting pressure on
> Chris for a release
> (9:23:37 AM) bluelightning: RP: that's what I was thinking
> (9:23:55 AM) bluelightning: I can take the AR to do that
> (9:23:55 AM) RP: We could take the ffmpeg/libav stuff into the core
> subject to correct license tags
> (9:24:17 AM) RP: xserver-nodm-init I don't know the history of,
> probably needs someone to resolve the differences
> (9:24:20 AM) RP: It does need to be done
> (9:24:20 AM) koen-: bluelightning: feel free to drop the avr32 patch in libmad
> (9:24:34 AM) bluelightning: koen-: ok... is it no longer of value then?
> (9:25:28 AM) fray: so it sounds like me, we have a clear path for
> everything except xserver-nodm-init?
> (9:25:42 AM) koen-: bluelightning: no avr32 support in public layers
> (9:26:09 AM) bluelightning: koen-: well, there are a few references,
> but you're right, no machines that I'm aware of that use that
> TARGET_ARCH
> (9:26:55 AM) koen-: exactly
> (9:27:00 AM) bluelightning: I'd also note generally I'm still waiting
> to hear back from Martin Jansa since I figured he might have an
> opinion on the RFC
> (9:27:17 AM) RP: re: xserver-nodm-init, I probably know some of the
> history if there are specific questions
> (9:27:46 AM) bluelightning: well, the general question is how can we
> eliminate the duplication
> (9:27:51 AM) RP: I think its a case of nobody wants to touch it :/
> (9:28:00 AM) fray: :)
> (9:28:07 AM) bluelightning: so far that has been the pattern, it has
> been raised numerous times
> (9:28:18 AM) RP: I'd propose deleting the meta-oe version
> (9:28:22 AM) RP: see who complains :)
> (9:28:27 AM) fray: there ya go.. :)
> (9:28:42 AM) bluelightning: JaMa at least would probably have
> something to say about that :)
> (9:28:43 AM) koen-: RP: martin and I tried to get the meta-oe version
> into oe-core a year ago
> (9:29:16 AM) fray: I think the key thing, from the original goal of
> meta-oe (way back when we first met on oe-core/meta-oe) was to use it
> as a temporary space for appends (as necessary).. key being temporary,
> until it could be put into oe-core (or dropped)
> (9:29:16 AM) koen-: RP: but the oe-core maintainer couldn't grasp our
> usecase and it was before the big X.org cleanup
> (9:29:51 AM) fray: with the cleanup, does it make sense to try again?
> (9:29:52 AM) bluelightning: fray: I don't think that purpose ought to
> be supported anymore
> (9:30:12 AM) bluelightning: just causes too much mess
> (9:30:17 AM) fray: bluelightning I'm inclined to agree with you..
> (9:30:26 AM) koen-: systemd-user-sessions are a much better way to do it
> (9:30:34 AM) RP: koen-: So rather than explain it further you gave up?
> (9:30:36 AM) ***koen- has a ton of recipes to make that work
> (9:30:42 AM) fray: I was originally thinking experimental features,
> etc.. but always with an eye of getting things into oe-core
> (9:30:43 AM) koen-: RP: not really
> (9:30:54 AM) koen-: RP: after a while we hit the usual brick wall
> (9:31:02 AM) RP: koen-: "usual"?
> (9:31:07 AM) koen-: and then we focused on merging the meta-oe X.org stuff
> (9:31:26 AM) bluelightning: fray: if people want a shared layer to do
> that, I've no objection... as long as it's not the same layer that has
> useful stable additional recipes as meta-oe does
> (9:31:45 AM) fray: ya, and I think that's one of the things that has changed..
> (9:31:55 AM) fray: meta-oe is a lot more stable then it had originally
> been thought to be..
> (9:32:03 AM) fray: (not a complaint mind you!)
> (9:32:09 AM) khem: fray: meta-oe should be seen as extention of oe-core
> (9:32:42 AM) RP: My main concern with it has been the mix of distro
> policy and recipes
> (9:33:03 AM) RP: We're reaching a point where that is nearly resolved
> and I think we need to maintain that
> (9:33:19 AM) fray: RP, that is the place I'm seeing more focus on from
> you and others..  distro policy settings vs simply recipe
> integration..  it's a good thing and as you said, we need to maintain
> this work..
> (9:33:50 AM) fray: I think it speaks highly of the project and users
> that distro policy is an issue vs "I can't integrate recipes cause
> it's too hard"
> (9:34:52 AM) fray: ok then.. what are the next steps to this..
> (9:35:11 AM) RP: Its why the YP compatible status spells this out, its
> one of the hardest things to achieve yet it also helps the users the
> most
> (9:35:15 AM) fray: Finish up the work for the packages other then the
> xservers-nodm-init..
> (9:35:25 AM) fray: work on getting that integrated or dropped as a
> separate item?
> (9:35:33 AM) bluelightning: fray: well, we've resolved everything
> except the xserver-nodm-init, that needs further input from those that
> currently use the meta-oe version
> (9:35:45 AM) bluelightning: fray: I'm working on patchsets to tackle
> everything else
> (9:35:46 AM) RP: I don't know what the differences are so its hard to commit
> (9:35:51 AM) RP: comment
> (9:36:00 AM) fray: and focus on only doing bbappends in oe-core when
> specifically necessary -- otherwise it should be in oe-core?
> (9:36:14 AM) RP: I would point out that a step by step series of
> logical changes does help me a lot with review
> (9:36:36 AM) RP: simply copying the meta-oe version over the oe-core
> one will not be helpful
> (9:37:06 AM) RP: meld is great for creating that kind of thing
> (9:37:39 AM) bluelightning: http://pastebin.com/e8DyTP1M
> (9:38:45 AM) RP: so rootless X support is one difference
> (9:38:45 AM) bluelightning: I can't get much from that diff I have to say
> (9:38:58 AM) bluelightning: but I'm not particularly familiar with the
> problem space
> (9:39:00 AM) RP: and one is machine specific, the other is allarch
> (9:39:11 AM) RP: It might be possible just to rename one of them
> (9:39:11 AM) khem: hmmm oe-core one is machine_arch specfic
> (9:39:21 AM) khem: but meta-oe is allarch
> (9:39:27 AM) RP: If angstrom and shr use it in their feeds, I'll take
> a rename to the core one
> (9:39:37 AM) RP: since there are less distro feed issues with core
> (9:40:01 AM) RP: khem: its due to the rootless X support which works
> on some machines, not others
> (9:40:30 AM) bluelightning: presumably machines with drivers that support KMS ?
> (9:40:33 AM) RP: bluelightning: are the scripts themselves different?
> (9:40:36 AM) khem: INITSCRIPT_PARAMS change is probablt disto specific
> (9:40:42 AM) khem: it should move to distro layers
> (9:41:00 AM) RP: bluelightning: Intel gen graphics supports it basically
> (9:41:08 AM) RP: khem: sane defaults are fine
> (9:41:16 AM) RP: khem: distros can then change if needed/wanted
> (9:41:50 AM) khem: yes
> (9:41:58 AM) khem: however we have
> (9:41:58 AM) khem: -INITSCRIPT_PARAMS = "start 9 5 2 . stop 20 0 1 6 ."
> (9:41:59 AM) khem: +INITSCRIPT_PARAMS = "start 01 5 2 . stop 01 0 1 6 ."
> (9:41:59 AM) khem: +INITSCRIPT_PARAMS_shr = "start 90 5 2 . stop 90 0 1 6 ."
> (9:42:09 AM) bluelightning: RP: yes
> (9:42:11 AM) bluelightning: RP: http://pastebin.com/MmPKzZ26
> (9:43:10 AM) fray: ok.. lets take this to the mailing list, and go on
> to the next topic(s)
> (9:43:23 AM) fray: 3a -- janitor/qa bugs.. I don't have anything here
> (9:43:26 AM) bluelightning: yep, I think that's probably best
> (9:43:29 AM) khem:        yes
> (9:43:59 AM) fray: 3b -- has anyone gotten to this yet?  if not we
> should keep it on and I'll try to get to it after ELC
> (9:44:17 AM) RP: Just to round off, I suspect we should try and make
> that recipe allarch for the machines that don't support rootless X
> (9:44:28 AM) RP: there don't appear to be many other significant differences
> (9:45:34 AM) RP: fray: no one has got to it that I know of

I can explain some bits on this one.

The main difference between xserver-nodm-init is not in this recipe
itself but in stuff it's using to get things done:
meta-oe version: xserver-common (includes settings for many MACHINEs),
integrates with xinput-calibrator

oe-core version: x11-common (uses formfactor to read MACHINE support,
xinput-calibrator not used and not available in oe-core

xinput-calibrator is now being reworked by Andreas so we should at least
wait for this rework to settle down, before it's imported to oe-core, some
people tried before, but not very well:

http://patches.openembedded.org/patch/13093/
http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-core/2011-July/006814.html

My patches in first version of BIG xorg cleanup also touched xserver-nodm-init, 
but because I haven't reworked x11-common/xserver-common at that time it was
correctly refused:
http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-core/2011-September/010421.html

In next versions like
http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-core/2011-October/010814.html
I was cleaning only xserver, libx11, mesa and keeping
xserver-nodm-init/x*common untouched.

I still belive that moving root-less support to
x11-common/xserver-common is right way (user should be able to start
root-less Xserver from command line without using init script) and
/etc/X11/Xsession or formfactor should decide if MACHINE supports that
use-case or not.

xserver-common has a lot of local patches in meta-oe, but all we're sent
to Florian to apply them upstream and hopefully with new xserver-common
release. 

I still find xserver-common a bit more flexible (I can do whatever I
want in MACHINE specific section of xserver-common script), but someone
can check what those specific sections are doing and add more possible
options to formfactor + more IFs to x11-common.

Machines with touchscreen were usually adding -nocursor (x11-common
should probably do the same with HAVE_TOUCHSCREEN=1 in formfactor), some
MACHINES were even modprobing kernel module (not sure if we want to
support this use case by formfactor), selecting different xserver
implementation is probably not so useful now with almost everything
using Xorg.

I agree that formfactor is easier to maintain and MACHINE specific
declarations there can be used by other stuff besides x11, so it's good
thing to have.

I don't have time to work on this myself soon, but if someone moves
root-less support from oe-core's xserver-nodm-init to x11-common +
formfactor. Then as first step we should be able to drop
xserver-nodm-init from meta-oe and use
VIRTUAL-RUNTIME_xserver_common (already used in
packagegroup-core-x11.bb) to select between x11-common and
xserver-common.

And I think this first step should be done by someone with access to
device which is using root-less now => not me and it's easier if that
person is not depending on meta-oe to get touchscreen calibration right
:).

Cheers,
-- 
Martin 'JaMa' Jansa     jabber: Martin.Jansa@gmail.com

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Re: OE TSC minutes 12 February 2013

[Andreas Müller]

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Martin Jansa <martin.jansa@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I can explain some bits on this one.
>
> The main difference between xserver-nodm-init is not in this recipe
> itself but in stuff it's using to get things done:
> meta-oe version: xserver-common (includes settings for many MACHINEs),
> integrates with xinput-calibrator
>
> oe-core version: x11-common (uses formfactor to read MACHINE support,
> xinput-calibrator not used and not available in oe-core
>
> xinput-calibrator is now being reworked by Andreas

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Paul Eggleton
<paul.eggleton@linux.intel.com> wrote:
> Thanks! Glad I don't have to dish out any beatings. ;)

Afraid of getting new beatings-canditate: Need a bit time on other
issues before I can taking care for xinput-calibrator :)

Andreas

Re: OE TSC minutes 12 February 2013

[Burton, Ross]

On 28 February 2013 06:28, Jeff Osier-Mixon <jefro@jefro.net> wrote:
> (9:51:16 AM) RP: bluelightning: Beat up Ross?

In an attempt to avoid TSC-sanctioned beatings, I've just sent a
series that adds libgdata, clutter-box2d, and gthumb to meta-oe.

Ross

Re: OE TSC minutes 12 February 2013

[Paul Eggleton]

On Thursday 28 February 2013 12:13:18 Burton, Ross wrote:
> On 28 February 2013 06:28, Jeff Osier-Mixon <jefro@jefro.net> wrote:
> > (9:51:16 AM) RP: bluelightning: Beat up Ross?
> 
> In an attempt to avoid TSC-sanctioned beatings, I've just sent a
> series that adds libgdata, clutter-box2d, and gthumb to meta-oe.

Thanks! Glad I don't have to dish out any beatings. ;)

Cheers,
Paul

-- 

Paul Eggleton
Intel Open Source Technology Centre