Discussion of the implementations of VIRTIO specification
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Linlin Zhang <linlin.zhang@oss.qualcomm.com>
To: "Michael S. Tsirkin" <mst@redhat.com>
Cc: Max Gurtovoy <mgurtovoy@nvidia.com>,
	Stefan Hajnoczi <stefanha@redhat.com>,
	virtio-dev@lists.linux.dev, ebiggers@kernel.org,
	neeraj.soni@oss.qualcomm.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH v3 0/2] virtio-blk: Add inline encryption support
Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2026 00:23:16 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <7a95c6b2-0a7e-4322-ad77-4e3ea13efdbd@oss.qualcomm.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20261012183102-mutt-send-email-mst@kernel.org>



On 10/13/2026 6:33 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 10, 2026 at 06:54:06PM +0800, Linlin Zhang wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 10/9/2026 8:25 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, Oct 09, 2026 at 07:21:13PM +0800, Linlin Zhang wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/8/2026 6:15 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 08, 2026 at 05:17:30PM +0800, Linlin Zhang wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 9/30/2026 6:46 AM, Max Gurtovoy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 24/09/2026 12:35, Linlin Zhang wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 9/22/2026 9:14 PM, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2026 at 12:29:37PM +0800, Linlin Zhang wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 9/18/2026 5:08 AM, Stefan Hajnoczi wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Sep 13, 2026 at 09:16:13AM -0700, Linlin Zhang wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> From: linlzhan <linlin.zhang@oss.qualcomm.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> This series adds virtio-blk inline encryption support for devices backed
>>>>>>>>>>>> by storage hardware with an inline crypto engine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The protocol exposes device capabilities such as keyslot count, maximum
>>>>>>>>>>>> DUN size, and supported key types. Encrypted requests identify a
>>>>>>>>>>>> provisioned keyslot and carry a 256-bit DUN. Key management and crypto
>>>>>>>>>>>> capability discovery use the block device control virtqueue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The control virtqueue is defined as a generic framework so that its
>>>>>>>>>>>> buffer layout and queue placement are independent of any particular
>>>>>>>>>>>> control command. Inline encryption then builds on this framework with
>>>>>>>>>>>> explicit crypto command formats, capability validation, and keyslot
>>>>>>>>>>>> state semantics.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> All key related operatios are handled in the control virtqueue, and
>>>>>>>>>>>> the crypto I/O request is handled in the request queue.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> For background on inline encryption in UFS and eMMC storage, see:
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/Documentation/block/inline-encryption.rst
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> changes in v3:
>>>>>>>>>>>>   - Add a control virtqueue
>>>>>>>>>>>>   - Move key program/evict/derive_sw_secret/generate/prepare/import to
>>>>>>>>>>>>     the control virtqueue
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. This was a big change, especially if you already have an
>>>>>>>>>>> implementation. I appreciate it!
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> My main feedback is that the new control virtqueue commands are not yet
>>>>>>>>>>> documented in enough detail so that implementors could implement them.
>>>>>>>>>>> Once you've decided on the precise semantics, error codes, etc and added
>>>>>>>>>>> them to the spec, then this will round off the inline encryption
>>>>>>>>>>> feature. I look forward to reviewing that in the future.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Thanks a lot for your comment!
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Would you please help clarify what the precise semantics are about? detail
>>>>>>>>>> introduction of the filed in the inline encryption control command struct?
>>>>>>>>>> like struct virtio_blk_crypto_key_desc?
>>>>>>>>> By precise semantics, I mean specifying not just the constants and
>>>>>>>>> structs, but documenting what each command does and how it can fail.
>>>>>>>>> Each of the key slot programming commands needs this. There should be at
>>>>>>>>> least one paragraph for each of VIRTIO_BLK_T_CRYPTO_KEYSLOT_PROGRAM,
>>>>>>>>> VIRTIO_BLK_T_CRYPTO_KEYSLOT_EVICT, VIRTIO_BLK_T_CRYPTO_DERIVE_SW_SECRET,
>>>>>>>>> VIRTIO_BLK_T_CRYPTO_GENERATE_KEY, VIRTIO_BLK_T_CRYPTO_IMPORT_KEY, or
>>>>>>>>> VIRTIO_BLK_T_CRYPTO_PREPARE_KEY.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> For example:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The VIRTIO_BLK_T_CRYPTO_KEYSLOT_EVICT command empties a key slot so that
>>>>>>>>> key information is removed and the key slot cannot be used until it is
>>>>>>>>> programmed again. The key slot index is specified by struct
>>>>>>>>> virtio_blk_crypto_key_desc \field{slot} and all other fields in the
>>>>>>>>> struct are ignored. The command succeeds with VIRTIO_BLK_S_OK if the key
>>>>>>>>> slot index is valid, including if the slot is already empty. If the key
>>>>>>>>> slot index is invalid, the command fails with VIRTIO_BLK_S_IOERR.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stefan
>>>>>>>> Thanks for the clear example.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'll follow the same approach and add explicit normative semantics for
>>>>>>>> all inline encryption control requests.
>>>>>>> Can you please explain why we need to introduce yet another VQ type for control?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> We've added the Admin VQ as a generic VQ for control operations — I'm not sure why it isn't sufficient.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Adding control VQ to each device type seems strange to me after adding a generic Admin VQ.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for your comment! And I agree that the Admin VQ should be considered before
>>>>>> adding another device-specific control virtqueue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My understanding is that some of the inline encryption commands(get_crypto_modes/program key
>>>>>> /derive_sw_secret/evict key) are runtime operations of a specific virtio-blk deivce.
>>>>>> In particular, different virtio block devices may have different storage hardware sources
>>>>>> of crypto modes, and keyslot programming and eviction are invoked through the block device's
>>>>>> keyslot manager, and the programmed virtual keyslots are subsequently referenced by the
>>>>>> encryption requests submitted on that device's request virtqueues. These commands are
>>>>>> not about the management operation of device group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There is also a transport compatibility concern. The current virtio SPEC states that
>>>>>> 'Devices and drivers utilizing Virtio Over MMIO do not support VIRTIO_F_ADMIN_VQ'.
>>>>>> virtio MMIO is extensively used, so using the Admin VQ would make the feature unavailable
>>>>>> for that transport unless the proposal also extended the MMIO transport.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For these reasons, currently I believe that a virtio-blk control virtqueue is the better
>>>>>> fit: it keeps the complete key lifecycle associated with the block device and remains
>>>>>> usable across the transports required by the feature.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I would appreciate any feedback or insights from you and Stefan on the V5 patch series
>>>>>> posted for review before October ASAP.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Fundamentally, it does not make sense to force all vqs to be admin VQs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Admin vq would make sense if there is complex resource management going
>>>>> on - like what is happening with all the flow control things in the
>>>>> network device, since they have extensive functionality for managing
>>>>> device resources.
>>>>>
>>>>> Random device specific commands - I am not sure we want that.
>>>>> It remains to be proven.
>>>>>
>>>>> But generally why does this go on a special VQ? Is there a reason?
>>>>>
>>>>> You define distinct request types seemingly and we are not short on types?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your comments!
>>>>
>>>> The key programming operation is initiated while preparing a block I/O
>>>> request and sent to the VQ after the block I/O request has entered the
>>>> block request queue, before the request is submitted to the device's VQ.
>>>> see blk_mq_submit_bio(). Using the same virtqueue for both key-program
>>>> command and normal I/O could lead to bio_queue_enter() called 2 times
>>>> for the same block queue, which is possible to have deadlock if
>>>> blk_mq_freeze_queue() is called between above 2 bio_queue_enter() caller.
>>>>
>>>> A separate control virtqueue provides an independent execution path for
>>>> key programming, key eviction, and related operations. It allows these
>>>> operations to be issued even when the normal request virtqueues are full
>>>> or unable to make progress. Once the operation completes, the corresponding
>>>> request can safely reference the programmed virtual keyslot.
>>>>
>>>> For such reasons, we believe that a virtio-blk-specific control VQ is a
>>>> more appropriate mechanism than the standard VQ.
>>>
>>> I don't understand. Do these commands go through bio queue?
>>> Don't they go to VQ directly, just like you would with the control VQ?
>>>
>>
>> Thanks for your comment! my earlier reply conflated two separate concerns.
>> Let me address them precisely based on Linux kernel code.
>>
>> I agree that block-layer queue entry and virtqueue selection are independent
>> issues.
>>
>> Whether key program commands going through bio queue or not depends on the
>> implementation.
>>
>>   - Option A: Reuse the standard block-request helpers (e.g.,
>>     blk_mq_alloc_request() + blk_execute_rq(), the same pattern virtblk_get_id()
>>     uses):
>>     
>>       - blk_mq_submit_bio()
>>          -> blk_crypto_submit_bio()   # outer bio_queue_enter() already held
>>            -> keyslot manager
>>              -> virtblk_crypto_keyslot_program()
>>                -> blk_mq_alloc_request()
>>                  -> blk_queue_enter()    # deadlock: freeze in progress
>>
>>     This is not safe at the keyslot-manager call site. Key programming is invoked
>>     from inside blk_mq_submit_bio(), at a point where the submitting thread already
>>     holds an unreleased reference from an earlier bio_queue_enter() call on the same
>>     queue. Calling blk_queue_enter() a second time on the same thread and queue —
>>     while a concurrent blk_mq_freeze_queue() is in flight — produces a circular wait:
>>     the freezer blocks waiting for all references (including the outer one) to drop to
>>     zero, while the submitting thread blocks waiting for the freeze depth to clear.
>>     Neither can make progress. The problem is not allocation starvation but queue-entry
>>     reentrancy under freeze. 
>>
>>     This is the deadlock concern I mentioned last time.
>>
>>   - Option B: Bypass the block layer entirely and raw-submit to a data VQ (i.e.,
>>     virtqueue_add_sgs() / virtqueue_kick() directly, just targeting a request VQ instead
>>     of the control VQ):
>>
>>     This would indeed sidestep the blk_queue_enter() reentrancy problem. However, it is
>>     not equivalent to simply adding a new request type — it would require changing the
>>     data VQ token and completion contract:
>>
>>     virtblk_done() — the completion callback registered for every data VQ — unconditionally
>>     calls blk_mq_rq_from_pdu() and then blk_mq_complete_request() for every buffer it pulls
>>     off the ring. It assumes every returned token is a struct virtblk_req embedded in a
>>     blk-mq–allocated struct request. A new specific virtblk_crypto_request injected into a
>>     data VQ ring is not such an object. The completion path has no way to distinguish it,
>>     and treating it as one computes a bogus request pointer and corrupts blk-mq tag state.
>>
>>     Making this safe would require adding out-of-band type tagging and dispatch logic into
>>     the hot I/O completion path, making the data-VQ callback polymorphic in a way that
>>     currently has no precedent.
>>
>>     Furthermore, there is a scope mismatch: data VQs are scoped to individual blk-mq hardware
>>     queues (hctx->queue_num), whereas keyslot management is a per-device operation. On a
>>     multi-queue device, there is no single canonical data VQ to target. Choosing queue[0]
>>     arbitrarily concentrates control traffic, causes contention with that hctx's in-flight
>>     I/O and submission lock (vblk->vqs[i].lock), and can be blocked entirely if that ring
>>     is saturated.
>>
>>     In summary, using a data VQ in this way is implementable in principle, but it would require
>>     changing the established data-VQ token/completion contract and coupling a device-scoped
>>     control operation to an arbitrarily chosen hctx-scoped queue.
> 
> 
> Actually even simpler. Option C: spec allows any mix. Linux practically
> can choose a VQ and dedicates it to the key slot management.
> It can then submit requests there in any way it wants.
> No?

Thanks, this seems a simpler implementation. If I understand correctly, the driver could
reserve one of the request VQs exclusively for keyslot-management commands and raw-submit
the commands to that VQ.

But I see a few issues that may need to be defined:
  1. This approach depends on VIRTIO_BLK_F_MQ to be negotiated and requires the device to expose
     at least two request virtqueues. It would therefore provide no usable fallback for a
     single-queue device.
  2. All negotiated queues are exposed through the existing requestq interface, and the
    spec provides no standardized way to identify one of them as a dedicate queue. Reserving
    one request VQ for key management would therefore be a driver/backend convention rather
    than an explicitly negotiated device interface. This also decreasing the code portability.
  3. The dedicated queue would still use the normal virtio-blk request framing, including
    struct virtio_blk_outhdr, even though fields such as ioprio and sector have no meaningful
    semantics for key-management commands. This is workable, but it makes the control protocol
    inherit data-request framing that it does not naturally need.

If these are acceptable, Option C could avoid adding a new control VQ. But I think the
queue-selection and feature-dependency rules would still need to be specified explicitly.

Could you please help comments about these above concerns? Taking this concern into account,
I feel a dedicate control queue seems more proper.

> 
> 
>> While the separate control virtqueue provides a direct submission path without entering the
>> block layer, while also providing a distinct request format, completion callback, lock, and
>> descriptor pool. This keeps key-management operations separate from blk-mq request/tag
>> and from the per-hardware-queue I/O completion path.
>>
>> Given the above, I prefer to having a new control VQ. I'm appreciated if you have any
>> insights about it. 
>>
>> In addition, the control VQ is currently used for inline encryption. From the virtio
>> specification perspective, should we state that it is currently used only for inline
>> encryption, or leave room for future extensions?
> 


  reply	other threads:[~2026-10-13 16:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 26+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2026-09-13 16:16 [PATCH v3 0/2] virtio-blk: Add inline encryption support Linlin Zhang
2026-09-13 16:16 ` [PATCH v3 1/2] virtio-blk: Add the control virtqueue Linlin Zhang
2026-09-17 20:16   ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2026-09-22 11:10     ` Linlin Zhang
2026-09-13 16:16 ` [PATCH v3 2/2] virtio-blk: Add inline encryption support Linlin Zhang
2026-09-17 21:05   ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2026-09-24  9:32     ` Linlin Zhang
2026-09-17 21:08 ` [PATCH v3 0/2] " Stefan Hajnoczi
2026-09-22  4:29   ` Linlin Zhang
2026-09-22 13:14     ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2026-09-24  9:35       ` Linlin Zhang
2026-09-29 22:46         ` Max Gurtovoy
2026-10-08  9:17           ` Linlin Zhang
2026-10-08 10:15             ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2026-10-09 11:21               ` Linlin Zhang
2026-10-09 12:25                 ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2026-10-10 10:54                   ` Linlin Zhang
2026-10-12 14:51                     ` Linlin Zhang
2026-10-12 22:33                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2026-10-13 16:23                       ` Linlin Zhang [this message]
2026-10-13 18:08                         ` Michael S. Tsirkin
2026-10-13 19:07                         ` Stefan Hajnoczi
2026-10-12 23:12               ` Max Gurtovoy
2026-10-13 16:23                 ` Linlin Zhang
2026-10-13 18:07                   ` Max Gurtovoy
2026-10-13 18:10                     ` Michael S. Tsirkin

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=7a95c6b2-0a7e-4322-ad77-4e3ea13efdbd@oss.qualcomm.com \
    --to=linlin.zhang@oss.qualcomm.com \
    --cc=ebiggers@kernel.org \
    --cc=mgurtovoy@nvidia.com \
    --cc=mst@redhat.com \
    --cc=neeraj.soni@oss.qualcomm.com \
    --cc=stefanha@redhat.com \
    --cc=virtio-dev@lists.linux.dev \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox