Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[Bel Hadj Salem Talel]

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Hello All,

I did create a detailed diagram about Yocto Tasks and where they happen exactly in tmp, downloads and other directories in the build folder.

Please find attached the SVG diagram.

If it can be added to Yocto documentation it would be great, so any comments/reviews are welcome.

This will setup the way for me to add more detailed diragrams about other Yocto topics.

Thanks,
Talel

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Re: [docs] Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[Michael Opdenacker]

Hi Talel

On 10/31/22 18:13, Bel Hadj Salem Talel wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> I did create a detailed diagram about Yocto Tasks and where they 
> happen exactly in tmp, downloads and other directories in the build 
> folder.
>
> Please find attached the SVG diagram.
>
> If it can be added to Yocto documentation it would be great, so any 
> comments/reviews are welcome.
>
> This will setup the way for me to add more detailed diragrams about 
> other Yocto topics.


Many thanks for proposing this contribution!
Before we find a place in the manual where we could use it, I've got an 
issue with the text labels, which Google docs turned into shapes when 
you exported to SVG, removing the possibility to edit them in the future.

Ultimately, I'd like this diagram to be maintained in SVG format, so 
that everyone can easily maintain them, typically using Inkscape.

Maybe we can manually edit this SVG document to fix this, replacing the 
shapes by real text, which could be rather quick.

List members, any feedback about the content itself?

Thanks again
Michael.

-- 
Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
https://bootlin.com

Re: [docs] Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[Quentin Schulz]

Hi Talel, Michael,

On 11/1/22 16:42, Michael Opdenacker via lists.yoctoproject.org wrote:
> Hi Talel
> 
> On 10/31/22 18:13, Bel Hadj Salem Talel wrote:
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I did create a detailed diagram about Yocto Tasks and where they 
>> happen exactly in tmp, downloads and other directories in the build 
>> folder.
>>
>> Please find attached the SVG diagram.
>>
>> If it can be added to Yocto documentation it would be great, so any 
>> comments/reviews are welcome.
>>
>> This will setup the way for me to add more detailed diragrams about 
>> other Yocto topics.
> 
> 

I've seen you've continued to post a few things here and there on 
LinkedIn too, nice :)

Thanks for suggesting using this SVG and sorry for the time it took for 
me to go through my mail backlog...

> Many thanks for proposing this contribution!
> Before we find a place in the manual where we could use it, I've got an 

I don't know yet where we could put this SVG, do you have any suggestion?

> issue with the text labels, which Google docs turned into shapes when 
> you exported to SVG, removing the possibility to edit them in the future.
> 
> Ultimately, I'd like this diagram to be maintained in SVG format, so 
> that everyone can easily maintain them, typically using Inkscape.
> 
> Maybe we can manually edit this SVG document to fix this, replacing the 
> shapes by real text, which could be rather quick.
> 

Agreed on editable SVGs.

On the SVG itself, it's a bit dense so I needed a few minutes to look at 
everything and understand how the things were working together. Maybe 
there's something we can do to improve this but I have nothing to 
suggest at the moment sorry. It could help to have a small explanation 
(either in the SVG itself or as a caption in rST) as to what this is 
supposed to represent or in which scenario this would be a diagram I 
would like to look at to understand some things better.

However, "Same as image" under the sysroot-destdir is an incorrect 
statement as it's a subset of the image directory, controlled by 
SYSROOT_DIRS variable, c.f. 
https://docs.yoctoproject.org/ref-manual/variables.html#term-SYSROOT_DIRS. 
It happens that SYSROOT_DIRS lists most common directories that would be 
useful for other recipes but it's not always the case (e.g. passing some 
U-Boot binaries for example, typically located in /boot).

Thanks for taking the time to share this with us.

Cheers,
Quentin

Re: Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[BELHADJ SALEM Talel]

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Hello Quentin,

Thanks for your reply,

> 
> what this is supposed to represent or in which scenario this would be a
> diagram

The diagram is the detailed process of how bitbake will handle building a recipe that depends on other recipe, and show the details of the working directory of a recipe which I noticed that lot of Yocto developers get confused with.

> 
> I've seen you've continued to post a few things here and there on LinkedIn
> too, nice :)

I have lot of contributions in mind: diagrams, documentation, classes, new bitbake binary ideas based on Bitbake python library, for example you can have a look at : bitbake-recipe which looks for all recipes that start with a given input, and show its path, version, and other information (Covering limitation of devtool and bitbake-layers on the topic of looking for recipes): GitHub link: https://github.com/bhstalel/bitbake-recipe

I would like to start contributing, but I need a quick meeting with a contributor to explain to me the meetings, patch sending process ,... etc

I will take your comments about " *sysroot-destdir* " into consideration and I will start fixing the diagram and prepare the SVG format.

Thanks,
Talel

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Re: Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[BELHADJ SALEM Talel]

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Hello,

Returning to the detailed diagram proposal,

I have created another one that is more and more detailed using draw.io, I tried inkspace but it seems really to deal with.

If this SVG file fine and accepted we can move on with it,  otherwise, what is the solution for this ? Should I try to take more time to adapt it to inkscape and following the SVG template or someone can help me with this ?

After dealing with that, I am planning to suggest adding a new "6.5 Tasks Map" in ref-manual/tasks and for the recipes example in the diagram I will put their content in that section before introducing the diagram.

What do you think?

Kind Regards,
Talel

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Re: [docs] Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[Michael Opdenacker]

Hi Talel

On 17.10.23 at 20:56, BELHADJ SALEM Talel wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Returning to the detailed diagram proposal,
>
> I have created another one that is more and more detailed using 
> draw.io, I tried inkspace but it seems really to deal with.


This one looks good. I opened it in Inkscape and I can open it and edit 
it, which is what matter most.

A minor issue though. I can see in your PNG export that you are using 
"fancy" fonts, and I don't have them on my Linux box, and we probably 
don't either on the autobuilder machine which compiles the docs. 
However, this should be fixable. You could look at the fonts I used on 
https://docs.yoctoproject.org/_images/releases.svg and you/we could 
probably use those or similar ones.

>
> If this SVG file fine and accepted we can move on with it, otherwise, 
> what is the solution for this ? Should I try to take more time to 
> adapt it to inkscape and following the SVG template or someone can 
> help me with this ?


Actually, the style of the SVG template should be updated. I liked the 
style of your original diagram and I must confess it influence me for 
https://docs.yoctoproject.org/_images/releases.svg :)

This being said, we should be careful not to convey too much meaning 
through colors, and keep in mind colorblind people and readers on e-ink 
(grayscale) displays. Accessibility is important and this is something 
you could improve  in the version you've just submitted. The first 
version was almost perfect with respect to this. All we need is manage 
to import it properly with an Open Source editor like Inkscape.


>
> After dealing with that, I am planning to suggest adding a new "6.5 
> Tasks Map" in ref-manual/tasks and for the recipes example in the 
> diagram I will put their content in that section before introducing 
> the diagram.
>
> What do you think?

It sounds great! I'll be happy to help if I can.
Thanks in advance,
Cheers
Michael.

-- 
Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
https://bootlin.com

Re: [docs] Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[Talel BELHADJ SALEM]

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Hello Michael,

If I understand correctly:


   - The diagram is correct and I only need to:
   - Change the font
   - Remove the color coding indication (Should I keep the coloring as well
   ? Or make everything with 2 colors at max?)
   - Complete the section content and append the diagram and submit the
   patch

Let me know if I miss anything.

Thanks.
Talel

On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 3:29 PM Michael Opdenacker <
michael.opdenacker@bootlin.com> wrote:

> Hi Talel
>
> On 17.10.23 at 20:56, BELHADJ SALEM Talel wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > Returning to the detailed diagram proposal,
> >
> > I have created another one that is more and more detailed using
> > draw.io, I tried inkspace but it seems really to deal with.
>
>
> This one looks good. I opened it in Inkscape and I can open it and edit
> it, which is what matter most.
>
> A minor issue though. I can see in your PNG export that you are using
> "fancy" fonts, and I don't have them on my Linux box, and we probably
> don't either on the autobuilder machine which compiles the docs.
> However, this should be fixable. You could look at the fonts I used on
> https://docs.yoctoproject.org/_images/releases.svg and you/we could
> probably use those or similar ones.
>
> >
> > If this SVG file fine and accepted we can move on with it, otherwise,
> > what is the solution for this ? Should I try to take more time to
> > adapt it to inkscape and following the SVG template or someone can
> > help me with this ?
>
>
> Actually, the style of the SVG template should be updated. I liked the
> style of your original diagram and I must confess it influence me for
> https://docs.yoctoproject.org/_images/releases.svg :)
>
> This being said, we should be careful not to convey too much meaning
> through colors, and keep in mind colorblind people and readers on e-ink
> (grayscale) displays. Accessibility is important and this is something
> you could improve  in the version you've just submitted. The first
> version was almost perfect with respect to this. All we need is manage
> to import it properly with an Open Source editor like Inkscape.
>
>
> >
> > After dealing with that, I am planning to suggest adding a new "6.5
> > Tasks Map" in ref-manual/tasks and for the recipes example in the
> > diagram I will put their content in that section before introducing
> > the diagram.
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> It sounds great! I'll be happy to help if I can.
> Thanks in advance,
> Cheers
> Michael.
>
> --
> Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
> Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
> https://bootlin.com
>
>

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Re: [docs] Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[Michael Opdenacker]

Hi Talel

On 20.10.23 at 20:03, Talel BELHADJ SALEM wrote:
> Hello Michael,
>
> If I understand correctly:
>
>   * The diagram is correct and I only need to:
>   * Change the font
>
Right!
>
>   * Remove the color coding indication (Should I keep the coloring as
>     well ? Or make everything with 2 colors at max?)
>
Just think about colorblind people, for whom red and green look the 
same, for example. So, you could use up to 3 types of colors actually: 
bright (like white), dark (like black) and an intermediate one, so that 
the 3 colors can be distinguished on an e-ink display or by colorblind 
people.

That's what I tried to do with 
https://docs.yoctoproject.org/_images/releases.svg

>   * Complete the section content and append the diagram and submit the
>     patch
>
Right! Thanks in advance :)
Cheers
Michael.

-- 
Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
https://bootlin.com

Re: [docs] Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[Talel BELHADJ SALEM]

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Hello Michael,

Thanks for the clarification,

I have completed the map, and I think it is very perfect now.

I have just another question regarding the recipe's themselves,

Is it okay to create the recipes in my GitHub account and use that in the
documentation ?

Or, I put the files contents in the documentation itself like:

The following is the content of Makefile:

``content``

and so on ...

What do you think?

Thanks
Talel



On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 9:17 AM Michael Opdenacker <
michael.opdenacker@bootlin.com> wrote:

> Hi Talel
>
> On 20.10.23 at 20:03, Talel BELHADJ SALEM wrote:
> > Hello Michael,
> >
> > If I understand correctly:
> >
> >   * The diagram is correct and I only need to:
> >   * Change the font
> >
> Right!
> >
> >   * Remove the color coding indication (Should I keep the coloring as
> >     well ? Or make everything with 2 colors at max?)
> >
> Just think about colorblind people, for whom red and green look the
> same, for example. So, you could use up to 3 types of colors actually:
> bright (like white), dark (like black) and an intermediate one, so that
> the 3 colors can be distinguished on an e-ink display or by colorblind
> people.
>
> That's what I tried to do with
> https://docs.yoctoproject.org/_images/releases.svg
>
> >   * Complete the section content and append the diagram and submit the
> >     patch
> >
> Right! Thanks in advance :)
> Cheers
> Michael.
>
> --
> Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
> Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
> https://bootlin.com
>
>

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Re: [docs] Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[Michael Opdenacker]

Hello Talel,

On 27.10.23 at 14:18, BELHADJ SALEM Talel wrote:
> Hello Michael,
>
> Thanks for the clarification,
>
> I have completed the map, and I think it is very perfect now.
>
> I have just another question regarding the recipe's themselves,
>
> Is it okay to create the recipes in my GitHub account and use that in 
> the documentation ?
>
> Or, I put the files contents in the documentation itself like:
>
> The following is the content of Makefile:
>
> ``content``
>
> and so on ...
>
> What do you think?


Well, if you put all the sources in the documentation itself as you're 
suggesting, I believe it's fine to mention that they are also available 
in an external repository for convenience. Richard, you may disagree...

If you are really using git commands in the documentation to fetch 
search sources, I guess we can ask for a new git.yoctoproject.org 
repository for tutorials. It's important that the Yocto Project "owns" 
the contents of its manuals, and if you are no longer available to make 
updates, other people can take over.

Thanks!
Michael.

-- 
Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
https://bootlin.com

Re: [docs] Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[Talel BELHADJ SALEM]

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Hello Michael,

For now, I will put the content in the documentation, later if yoctoproject
repo is created then I will add it, otherwise if you see the content itself
is not necessary then I will remove it.

Thanks.
Kind regards
Talel

On Fri, Oct 27, 2023 at 4:02 PM Michael Opdenacker <
michael.opdenacker@bootlin.com> wrote:

> Hello Talel,
>
> On 27.10.23 at 14:18, BELHADJ SALEM Talel wrote:
> > Hello Michael,
> >
> > Thanks for the clarification,
> >
> > I have completed the map, and I think it is very perfect now.
> >
> > I have just another question regarding the recipe's themselves,
> >
> > Is it okay to create the recipes in my GitHub account and use that in
> > the documentation ?
> >
> > Or, I put the files contents in the documentation itself like:
> >
> > The following is the content of Makefile:
> >
> > ``content``
> >
> > and so on ...
> >
> > What do you think?
>
>
> Well, if you put all the sources in the documentation itself as you're
> suggesting, I believe it's fine to mention that they are also available
> in an external repository for convenience. Richard, you may disagree...
>
> If you are really using git commands in the documentation to fetch
> search sources, I guess we can ask for a new git.yoctoproject.org
> repository for tutorials. It's important that the Yocto Project "owns"
> the contents of its manuals, and if you are no longer available to make
> updates, other people can take over.
>
> Thanks!
> Michael.
>
> --
> Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
> Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
> https://bootlin.com
>
>

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Re: [docs] Yocto Tasks Detailed Diagram Proposal

[Talel BELHADJ SALEM]

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Hello Michael,

Kind reminder.

Thanks again for your support.
Kind regards
Talel

On Fri, Oct 20, 2023 at 7:03 PM BELHADJ SALEM Talel via
lists.yoctoproject.org <bhstalel=gmail.com@lists.yoctoproject.org> wrote:

> Hello Michael,
>
> If I understand correctly:
>
>
>    - The diagram is correct and I only need to:
>    - Change the font
>    - Remove the color coding indication (Should I keep the coloring as
>    well ? Or make everything with 2 colors at max?)
>    - Complete the section content and append the diagram and submit the
>    patch
>
> Let me know if I miss anything.
>
> Thanks.
> Talel
>
> On Thu, Oct 19, 2023 at 3:29 PM Michael Opdenacker <
> michael.opdenacker@bootlin.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Talel
>>
>> On 17.10.23 at 20:56, BELHADJ SALEM Talel wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> >
>> > Returning to the detailed diagram proposal,
>> >
>> > I have created another one that is more and more detailed using
>> > draw.io, I tried inkspace but it seems really to deal with.
>>
>>
>> This one looks good. I opened it in Inkscape and I can open it and edit
>> it, which is what matter most.
>>
>> A minor issue though. I can see in your PNG export that you are using
>> "fancy" fonts, and I don't have them on my Linux box, and we probably
>> don't either on the autobuilder machine which compiles the docs.
>> However, this should be fixable. You could look at the fonts I used on
>> https://docs.yoctoproject.org/_images/releases.svg and you/we could
>> probably use those or similar ones.
>>
>> >
>> > If this SVG file fine and accepted we can move on with it, otherwise,
>> > what is the solution for this ? Should I try to take more time to
>> > adapt it to inkscape and following the SVG template or someone can
>> > help me with this ?
>>
>>
>> Actually, the style of the SVG template should be updated. I liked the
>> style of your original diagram and I must confess it influence me for
>> https://docs.yoctoproject.org/_images/releases.svg :)
>>
>> This being said, we should be careful not to convey too much meaning
>> through colors, and keep in mind colorblind people and readers on e-ink
>> (grayscale) displays. Accessibility is important and this is something
>> you could improve  in the version you've just submitted. The first
>> version was almost perfect with respect to this. All we need is manage
>> to import it properly with an Open Source editor like Inkscape.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > After dealing with that, I am planning to suggest adding a new "6.5
>> > Tasks Map" in ref-manual/tasks and for the recipes example in the
>> > diagram I will put their content in that section before introducing
>> > the diagram.
>> >
>> > What do you think?
>>
>> It sounds great! I'll be happy to help if I can.
>> Thanks in advance,
>> Cheers
>> Michael.
>>
>> --
>> Michael Opdenacker, Bootlin
>> Embedded Linux and Kernel engineering
>> https://bootlin.com
>>
>>
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