[Bluez-devel] Information on Scatternet

[Bluez-devel] Information on Scatternet

[Elisabetta Gilli (diTEC001) - S.G.E. Srl]

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Hello,
I would like to know if it's possible to realize a BT scatternet made by
some hundreds (300 for example) of piconets. Each node of the piconet (max
5) has to connect only with the master of the piconet itself, and each
piconet has to send and receive data, via BT, with a PC that has to  collect
and manage the data of all the piconets. The distance between the majority
of the piconets and the PC is greater than the max possible for a BT class 1
device, so it's necessary that the master of each piconet work as a gateway
for the other piconets.

I hope to have been enough clear. I kindly ask you an answer for the
feasibility of such kind of BT network, or eventually to know the max number
of nodes that can be managed.

Best regards

Elisabetta Gilli

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Re: [Bluez-devel] Information on Scatternet

[Marcel Holtmann]

Hi Elisabetta,

> I would like to know if it's possible to realize a BT scatternet made
> by some hundreds (300 for example) of piconets. Each node of the
> piconet (max 5) has to connect only with the master of the piconet
> itself, and each piconet has to send and receive data, via BT, with a
> PC that has to  collect and manage the data of all the piconets. The
> distance between the majority of the piconets and the PC is greater
> than the max possible for a BT class 1 device, so it's necessary that
> the master of each piconet work as a gateway for the other piconets. 

this is possible, but you need at scatternet capable Bluetooth chip (for
example a CSR BlueCore with HCI 16.4 firmware or newer). What you really
need to make sure is that the roles are switched correctly. Remember
that the device that initiates a connection is the master of a piconet
in the first place.

Regards

Marcel




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Re: [Bluez-devel] Information on Scatternet

[Qihe Wang]

Hello,

I'm looking at this information too.  With 300 nodes, it almost impossible
to do manual set up.  I know there are several CSR engineers on this
mailing.  Would you like give us some information about how big a
scatternet can be built and what is the bridge scheduling algorithm?  Are
you have R&D interest in this kind of things?

Regards, Qihe

On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Marcel Holtmann wrote:

> Hi Elisabetta,
>
> > I would like to know if it's possible to realize a BT scatternet made
> > by some hundreds (300 for example) of piconets. Each node of the
> > piconet (max 5) has to connect only with the master of the piconet
> > itself, and each piconet has to send and receive data, via BT, with a
> > PC that has to  collect and manage the data of all the piconets. The
> > distance between the majority of the piconets and the PC is greater
> > than the max possible for a BT class 1 device, so it's necessary that
> > the master of each piconet work as a gateway for the other piconets.
>
> this is possible, but you need at scatternet capable Bluetooth chip (for
> example a CSR BlueCore with HCI 16.4 firmware or newer). What you really
> need to make sure is that the roles are switched correctly. Remember
> that the device that initiates a connection is the master of a piconet
> in the first place.
>
> Regards
>
> Marcel
>
>
>
>
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> Tool for open source databases. Create drag-&-drop reports. Save time
> by over 75%! Publish reports on the web. Export to DOC, XLS, RTF, etc.
> Download a FREE copy at http://www.intelliview.com/go/osdn_nl
> _______________________________________________
> Bluez-devel mailing list
> Bluez-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluez-devel
>



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Re: [Bluez-devel] Information on Scatternet

[Peter Wippich]

Hello Qihe,

from the Bluetooth Specification 1.2:

"A Bluetooth device that is a member of two or more piconets is said to be
involved in a scatternet. Involvement in a scatternet does not necessarily
imply any network routing capability or function in the Bluetooth device.
The Bluetooth core protocols do not, and are not intended to offer such
functionality, which is the responsibility of higher level protocols and
is outside the scope of the Bluetooth core specification."

So, in fact, if you want to implement a scatternet with bridging it has to
be done on the profile layer. Maybe the PAN profile with bridging is a
good point to start.

Good luck,

Peter

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, Qihe Wang wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I'm looking at this information too.  With 300 nodes, it almost impossible
> to do manual set up.  I know there are several CSR engineers on this
> mailing.  Would you like give us some information about how big a
> scatternet can be built and what is the bridge scheduling algorithm?  Are
> you have R&D interest in this kind of things?
>
> Regards, Qihe
>
> On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Marcel Holtmann wrote:
>
> > Hi Elisabetta,
> >
> > > I would like to know if it's possible to realize a BT scatternet made
> > > by some hundreds (300 for example) of piconets. Each node of the
> > > piconet (max 5) has to connect only with the master of the piconet
> > > itself, and each piconet has to send and receive data, via BT, with a
> > > PC that has to  collect and manage the data of all the piconets. The
> > > distance between the majority of the piconets and the PC is greater
> > > than the max possible for a BT class 1 device, so it's necessary that
> > > the master of each piconet work as a gateway for the other piconets.
> >
> > this is possible, but you need at scatternet capable Bluetooth chip (for
> > example a CSR BlueCore with HCI 16.4 firmware or newer). What you really
> > need to make sure is that the roles are switched correctly. Remember
> > that the device that initiates a connection is the master of a piconet
> > in the first place.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Marcel
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IntelliVIEW -- Interactive Reporting
> > Tool for open source databases. Create drag-&-drop reports. Save time
> > by over 75%! Publish reports on the web. Export to DOC, XLS, RTF, etc.
> > Download a FREE copy at http://www.intelliview.com/go/osdn_nl
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bluez-devel mailing list
> > Bluez-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluez-devel
> >
>
>
>
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|	Peter Wippich 			Voice: +49 30 46776411		|
|	G&W Instruments GmbH		fax:   +49 30 46776419		|
|	Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25, Geb. 12	Email: pewi@gw-instruments.de	|
|	D-13355 Berlin  / Germany					|




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Re: [Bluez-devel] Information on Scatternet

[Qihe Wang]

Peter,

Thanks.  I have been working on the scatternet thing for a whole and I
built a quite complex simulator for it.  I'm doing a ph.d thesis on it,
too.  I don't believe the current specification is sufficient to support
scatternets.  For one thing bridging handling need to access timing
critical information which is not exported to HCI, such as instructing a
bridge to switch to another master exactly at a certain slot.  For another
thing, connection setup takes too long, which makes a scatternet almost
impossible to maintain.  I think lower layers (LMP and Baseband) changes
are needed to solve these issues.  I'd like to know if there is any
industry interest in building a large scatternet.

Regards, Qihe

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005, Peter Wippich wrote:

>
> Hello Qihe,
>
> from the Bluetooth Specification 1.2:
>
> "A Bluetooth device that is a member of two or more piconets is said to be
> involved in a scatternet. Involvement in a scatternet does not necessarily
> imply any network routing capability or function in the Bluetooth device.
> The Bluetooth core protocols do not, and are not intended to offer such
> functionality, which is the responsibility of higher level protocols and
> is outside the scope of the Bluetooth core specification."
>
> So, in fact, if you want to implement a scatternet with bridging it has to
> be done on the profile layer. Maybe the PAN profile with bridging is a
> good point to start.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Peter
>
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005, Qihe Wang wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> >
> > I'm looking at this information too.  With 300 nodes, it almost impossible
> > to do manual set up.  I know there are several CSR engineers on this
> > mailing.  Would you like give us some information about how big a
> > scatternet can be built and what is the bridge scheduling algorithm?  Are
> > you have R&D interest in this kind of things?
> >
> > Regards, Qihe
> >
> > On Thu, 3 Feb 2005, Marcel Holtmann wrote:
> >
> > > Hi Elisabetta,
> > >
> > > > I would like to know if it's possible to realize a BT scatternet made
> > > > by some hundreds (300 for example) of piconets. Each node of the
> > > > piconet (max 5) has to connect only with the master of the piconet
> > > > itself, and each piconet has to send and receive data, via BT, with a
> > > > PC that has to  collect and manage the data of all the piconets. The
> > > > distance between the majority of the piconets and the PC is greater
> > > > than the max possible for a BT class 1 device, so it's necessary that
> > > > the master of each piconet work as a gateway for the other piconets.
> > >
> > > this is possible, but you need at scatternet capable Bluetooth chip (for
> > > example a CSR BlueCore with HCI 16.4 firmware or newer). What you really
> > > need to make sure is that the roles are switched correctly. Remember
> > > that the device that initiates a connection is the master of a piconet
> > > in the first place.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Marcel
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -------------------------------------------------------
> > > This SF.Net email is sponsored by: IntelliVIEW -- Interactive Reporting
> > > Tool for open source databases. Create drag-&-drop reports. Save time
> > > by over 75%! Publish reports on the web. Export to DOC, XLS, RTF, etc.
> > > Download a FREE copy at http://www.intelliview.com/go/osdn_nl
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Bluez-devel mailing list
> > > Bluez-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluez-devel
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> > Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> > Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
> > http://ads.osdn.com/?ad_id=6595&alloc_id=14396&op=click
> > _______________________________________________
> > Bluez-devel mailing list
> > Bluez-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluez-devel
> >
>
> |	Peter Wippich 			Voice: +49 30 46776411		|
> |	G&W Instruments GmbH		fax:   +49 30 46776419		|
> |	Gustav-Meyer-Allee 25, Geb. 12	Email: pewi@gw-instruments.de	|
> |	D-13355 Berlin  / Germany					|
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------
> SF email is sponsored by - The IT Product Guide
> Read honest & candid reviews on hundreds of IT Products from real users.
> Discover which products truly live up to the hype. Start reading now.
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> _______________________________________________
> Bluez-devel mailing list
> Bluez-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bluez-devel
>




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