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From: "Eric S. Raymond" <esr@thyrsus.com>
To: Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>
Cc: David Woodhouse <dwmw2@infradead.org>,
	Keith Owens <kaos@ocs.com.au>,
	kbuild-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	torvalds@transmeta.com
Subject: Re: [kbuild-devel] Converting the 2.5 kernel to kbuild 2.5
Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 07:21:22 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20011204072122.A11746@thyrsus.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20011204065212.A10990@thyrsus.com> <E16BEat-0001w7-00@the-village.bc.nu>
In-Reply-To: <E16BEat-0001w7-00@the-village.bc.nu>; from alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk on Tue, Dec 04, 2001 at 12:22:39PM +0000

Alan Cox <alan@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk>:
> > Unfortunately, the syntax of CML1 is rebarbative, and its imperative 
> > semantics cannot be mechanically translated to CML2's declarative 
> > semantics by any means I'm aware of.
> 
> The dependancy tree from CML1 is not that hard to obtain. It's not quite
> complete or correct though

That's right -- and the devil would be in the incomplete/incorrect
details. Areas of special pain: (1) cross-directory constraints, (2)
derivations, (3) multiple port tree apexes.  These are all areas where
CML1 has design flaws that human coders get around by applying
higher-level knowledge of a kind a mechanical translator couldn't
have.

This is, alas, one of those cases where the first 90% of the problem looks 
easy and the last 10% turns ought to be nigh-impossible -- and the
first 90% is useless without the last 10%.
-- 
		<a href="http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>

"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look
upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest."
        -- Mohandas Ghandhi, An Autobiography, pg 446

  reply	other threads:[~2001-12-04 14:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 135+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2001-12-03  1:06 Converting the 2.5 kernel to kbuild 2.5 Keith Owens
2001-12-03  1:19 ` [kbuild-devel] " Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-03  2:03   ` Keith Owens
2001-12-04  0:22     ` Dave Jones
2001-12-04  0:52       ` Keith Owens
2001-12-04 11:04 ` David Woodhouse
2001-12-04 11:52   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 12:22     ` Alan Cox
2001-12-04 12:21       ` Eric S. Raymond [this message]
2001-12-05 11:15         ` Horst von Brand
2001-12-04 12:19   ` Alan Cox
2001-12-04 12:11 ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-12-04 12:28   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 12:39     ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-12-04 12:48       ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 13:00         ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-12-04 13:16           ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 13:29             ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-12-04 15:40               ` Tom Rini
2001-12-04 16:11               ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 16:33               ` Matthias Andree
2001-12-04 17:03                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 17:38                   ` Giacomo Catenazzi
2001-12-04 17:36                     ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 19:03                       ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-04 19:04                         ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 17:43                   ` Dave Jones
2001-12-04 19:48                     ` David Weinehall
2001-12-04 19:53                       ` Dave Jones
2001-12-04 20:03                         ` David Weinehall
2001-12-04 19:57                     ` Mike Castle
2001-12-04 19:59                     ` Edward Muller
2001-12-04 20:11                       ` Dave Jones
2001-12-04 20:20                       ` Alan Cox
2001-12-04 21:03                         ` Edward Muller
2001-12-04 22:10                         ` Trevor Smith
2001-12-04 22:26                           ` Alan Cox
2001-12-04 20:20                     ` Richard B. Johnson
2001-12-05  3:14                       ` John Cowan
2001-12-05  4:36                         ` Mike Fedyk
2001-12-05 14:54                       ` Rob Landley
2001-12-05 14:51                     ` Rob Landley
2001-12-06  0:37                       ` Dave Jones
2001-12-06 16:49                       ` Rik van Riel
2001-12-06  9:57                         ` Rob Landley
2001-12-06 16:59                         ` John Stoffel
2001-12-06 17:25                           ` Alan Cox
2001-12-06 10:03                             ` Rob Landley
2001-12-07  0:06                               ` Keith Owens
2001-12-07  0:57                               ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-06 20:24                                 ` [kbuild-devel] Converting the 2.4 " Rob Landley
2001-12-07  1:44                                 ` [kbuild-devel] Converting the 2.5 " Tom Rini
2001-12-06 18:30                             ` John Stoffel
2001-12-06 18:51                               ` Horst von Brand
2001-12-06 18:59                                 ` David Weinehall
2001-12-06 19:14                                 ` Matthias Andree
2001-12-06 22:17                                 ` John Cowan
2001-12-07 14:44                                   ` Horst von Brand
2001-12-07 15:56                                     ` John Alvord
2001-12-10  9:55                                     ` Matthias Andree
2001-12-07 18:12                                   ` Kai Henningsen
2001-12-07  0:58                                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-06 18:07                           ` Martin Dalecki
2001-12-06 18:22                             ` David Weinehall
2001-12-06 19:10                         ` Matthias Andree
2001-12-04 17:44                   ` Alan Cox
2001-12-05  1:59                     ` Cameron Simpson
2001-12-05  8:29                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-05 10:17                         ` CML2 with python1 Jan Harkes
2001-12-12  7:17                           ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-14 12:50                             ` Pavel Machek
2001-12-04 17:15                 ` [kbuild-devel] Converting the 2.5 kernel to kbuild 2.5 Alan Cox
2001-12-04 17:19                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 17:30                     ` Martin Dalecki
2001-12-04 17:43                       ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-12-04 17:42                     ` Alan Cox
2001-12-04 17:38                       ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 18:01                         ` Alan Cox
2001-12-04 18:47                           ` Robert Love
2001-12-04 19:28                         ` Bernhard Rosenkraenzer
2001-12-04 17:20                   ` Matthias Andree
2001-12-04 17:27                   ` Martin Dalecki
2001-12-04 18:13                     ` Tom Rini
2001-12-04 18:26                       ` Alan Cox
2001-12-04 18:27                         ` Tom Rini
2001-12-04 19:19                           ` Stefan Smietanowski
2001-12-04 19:24                             ` Tom Rini
2001-12-05 11:06                       ` Martin Dalecki
2001-12-04 16:41               ` David Woodhouse
2001-12-04 16:52                 ` Giacomo Catenazzi
2001-12-04 17:06                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 17:15                   ` David Woodhouse
2001-12-04 17:50                   ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-05  1:17                     ` Daniel Phillips
2001-12-04 17:02                 ` David Woodhouse
2001-12-04 17:07                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 17:08                 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 17:19                 ` David Woodhouse
2001-12-04 17:34                   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 16:31   ` John Stoffel
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2001-12-04 17:08 RaúlNúñez de Arenas Coronado
2001-12-04 18:17 ` Jakob Kemi
2001-12-04 18:22 ` Tom Rini
2001-12-04 18:36   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-05  2:30   ` Greg Banks
2001-12-05 10:02     ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 18:46 ` David Weinehall
2001-12-04 18:43   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 19:27     ` David Weinehall
2001-12-05  1:17 ` Matthias Andree
2001-12-07  5:22 ` Stevie O
2001-12-04 17:11 Wayne.Brown
2001-12-04 17:44 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 17:46 ` Giacomo Catenazzi
2001-12-04 18:21   ` Alan Cox
2001-12-04 18:24     ` Tom Rini
2001-12-04 23:00     ` Keith Owens
2001-12-04 23:05       ` David Weinehall
2001-12-04 23:21         ` Keith Owens
2001-12-04 17:18 Michael Elizabeth Chastain
2001-12-04 17:30 ` Christoph Hellwig
2001-12-05  3:21   ` Mike Fedyk
2001-12-04 18:30 RaúlNúñez de Arenas Coronado
2001-12-04 18:41 ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 19:50 ` Edward Muller
2001-12-04 20:07   ` Robert Love
2001-12-04 21:23     ` Edward Muller
2001-12-05  1:26 ` Matthias Andree
2001-12-05 16:14 ` Rob Landley
2001-12-06  0:37   ` Eric S. Raymond
2001-12-04 18:38 Wayne.Brown
2001-12-04 18:50 RaúlNúñez de Arenas Coronado
2001-12-04 18:50 ` Tom Rini
2001-12-05  1:29 ` Matthias Andree
2001-12-04 19:06 RaúlNúñez de Arenas Coronado

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