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From: Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb@suse.de>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC] Multi-path IO in 2.5/2.6 ?
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:52:32 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20020911195232.GH1212@marowsky-bree.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200209111937.g8BJbfQ02442@localhost.localdomain>

On 2002-09-11T14:37:40,
   James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@steeleye.com> said:

> I think I see driverfs as the solution here.  Topology is deduced by
> examining certain device and HBA parameters.  As long as these parameters
> can be exposed as nodes in the device directory for driverfs, a user level
> daemon map the topology and connect the paths at the top.  It should even be
> possible to weight the constructed multi-paths.

Perfect, I agree, should've thought of it. As long as this is simple enough
that it can be done in initrd (if / is on a multipath device...).

The required weighting has already been implemented in the LVM1 patch by IBM.
While it appeared overkill to me for "simple" cases, I think it is suited to
expressing proximity.

> This solution appeals because the kernel doesn't have to dictate policy, 

Right.

> I've been think about this separately.  FC in particular needs some type of
> event notification API (something like "I've just seen this disk" or "my
> loop just went down").  I'd like to leverage a mid-layer api into hot plug
> for some of this, but I don't have the details worked out.

This isn't just FC, but also dasd on S/390. Potentially also network block
devices, which can notice a link down.

> The probing issue is an interesting one.  At least SCSI has the ability to 
> probe with no IO (something like a TEST UNIT READY) and I assume other block 
> devices have something similar.  Would it make sense to tie this to a single 
> well known ioctl so that you can probe any device that supports it without 
> having to send real I/O?

Not sufficient. The test is policy, so the above applies here too ;-) 

In the case of talking to a dual headed RAID box for example, TEST UNIT READY
might return OK, but the controller might refuse actual IO, or the path may be
somehow damaged in a way which is only detected by doing some "large" IO. Now,
this might be total overkill for other scenarios.

I vote for exposing the path via driverfs (which, I think, is already
concensus so the multipath group, topology etc can be used) and allowing
user-space to reenable them after doing whatever probing deemed necessary.

What are your ideas on the potential timeframe?



Sincerely,
    Lars Marowsky-Brée <lmb@suse.de>

-- 
Immortality is an adequate definition of high availability for me.
	--- Gregory F. Pfister

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Lars Marowsky-Bree <lmb@suse.de>
To: linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-scsi@vger.kernel.org
Subject: Re: [RFC] Multi-path IO in 2.5/2.6 ?
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 21:52:32 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20020911195232.GH1212@marowsky-bree.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <200209111937.g8BJbfQ02442@localhost.localdomain>

On 2002-09-11T14:37:40,
   James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@steeleye.com> said:

> I think I see driverfs as the solution here.  Topology is deduced by
> examining certain device and HBA parameters.  As long as these parameters
> can be exposed as nodes in the device directory for driverfs, a user level
> daemon map the topology and connect the paths at the top.  It should even be
> possible to weight the constructed multi-paths.

Perfect, I agree, should've thought of it. As long as this is simple enough
that it can be done in initrd (if / is on a multipath device...).

The required weighting has already been implemented in the LVM1 patch by IBM.
While it appeared overkill to me for "simple" cases, I think it is suited to
expressing proximity.

> This solution appeals because the kernel doesn't have to dictate policy, 

Right.

> I've been think about this separately.  FC in particular needs some type of
> event notification API (something like "I've just seen this disk" or "my
> loop just went down").  I'd like to leverage a mid-layer api into hot plug
> for some of this, but I don't have the details worked out.

This isn't just FC, but also dasd on S/390. Potentially also network block
devices, which can notice a link down.

> The probing issue is an interesting one.  At least SCSI has the ability to 
> probe with no IO (something like a TEST UNIT READY) and I assume other block 
> devices have something similar.  Would it make sense to tie this to a single 
> well known ioctl so that you can probe any device that supports it without 
> having to send real I/O?

Not sufficient. The test is policy, so the above applies here too ;-) 

In the case of talking to a dual headed RAID box for example, TEST UNIT READY
might return OK, but the controller might refuse actual IO, or the path may be
somehow damaged in a way which is only detected by doing some "large" IO. Now,
this might be total overkill for other scenarios.

I vote for exposing the path via driverfs (which, I think, is already
concensus so the multipath group, topology etc can be used) and allowing
user-space to reenable them after doing whatever probing deemed necessary.

What are your ideas on the potential timeframe?



Sincerely,
    Lars Marowsky-Brée <lmb@suse.de>

-- 
Immortality is an adequate definition of high availability for me.
	--- Gregory F. Pfister


  reply	other threads:[~2002-09-11 19:52 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 294+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2002-09-09 14:57 [RFC] Multi-path IO in 2.5/2.6 ? James Bottomley
2002-09-09 16:56 ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-09 17:34   ` James Bottomley
2002-09-09 18:40     ` Mike Anderson
2002-09-10 13:02       ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2002-09-10 16:03         ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-10 16:03           ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-10 16:27         ` Mike Anderson
2002-09-10  0:08     ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-10  7:55       ` Jeremy Higdon
2002-09-10 13:04         ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2002-09-10 16:20           ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-10 16:20             ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-10 13:16       ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2002-09-10 19:26         ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-11 14:20           ` James Bottomley
2002-09-11 19:17             ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2002-09-11 19:17               ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2002-09-11 19:37               ` James Bottomley
2002-09-11 19:52                 ` Lars Marowsky-Bree [this message]
2002-09-11 19:52                   ` Lars Marowsky-Bree
2002-09-12  1:15                   ` Bernd Eckenfels
2002-09-11 21:38                 ` Oliver Xymoron
2002-09-11 20:30             ` Doug Ledford
2002-09-11 21:17               ` Mike Anderson
2002-09-10 17:21       ` Patrick Mochel
2002-09-10 17:21         ` Patrick Mochel
2002-09-10 18:42         ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-10 19:00           ` Patrick Mochel
2002-09-10 19:00             ` Patrick Mochel
2002-09-10 19:37             ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-11  0:21 ` Neil Brown
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2002-11-21 15:16 [PATCH] turn scsi_allocate_device into readable code Christoph Hellwig
2002-11-21 15:36 ` Doug Ledford
2002-11-21 15:39   ` J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-21 15:49     ` Doug Ledford
2002-11-21 16:12       ` J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-21 17:08         ` [PATCH] current scsi-misc-2.5 include files Patrick Mansfield
2002-11-16 19:40 [PATCH] removel useless mod use count manipulation Christoph Hellwig
2002-11-17  2:59 ` Doug Ledford
2002-11-17 17:31   ` J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-17 18:14     ` Doug Ledford
2002-11-17 12:40 ` Douglas Gilbert
2002-11-17 12:48   ` Christoph Hellwig
2002-11-17 13:38     ` Douglas Gilbert
2002-11-15 20:34 [RFC][PATCH] move dma_mask into struct device J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-16  0:19 ` Mike Anderson
2002-11-16 14:48   ` J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-16 20:33 ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-11-17 15:07   ` J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-06 22:18 [PATCH] add request prep functions to SCSI J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-06 23:16 ` Doug Ledford
2002-11-06 23:43   ` J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-07 21:45 ` Mike Anderson
2002-11-06  4:24 [PATCH] fix 2.5 scsi queue depth setting Patrick Mansfield
2002-11-06  4:35 ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-11-06 17:15 ` J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-06 17:47 ` J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-06 18:24   ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-11-06 18:32     ` J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-06 18:39       ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-11-06 18:50         ` J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-06 19:50           ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-11-06 20:45     ` Doug Ledford
2002-11-06 21:19       ` J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-06 20:50 ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-21 19:34 [PATCH] get rid of ->finish method for highlevel drivers Christoph Hellwig
2002-10-21 23:58 ` James Bottomley
2002-10-22 15:48   ` James Bottomley
2002-10-22 18:43     ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-22 23:17       ` Mike Anderson
2002-10-22 23:30         ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-23 14:16           ` James Bottomley
2002-10-23 15:13             ` Christoph Hellwig
2002-10-24  1:36               ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-24 23:20               ` Willem Riede
2002-10-24 23:36                 ` Christoph Hellwig
2002-10-25  0:02                   ` Willem Riede
2002-10-22  7:30 ` Mike Anderson
2002-10-22 11:14   ` Christoph Hellwig
2002-10-15 18:55 [patch 2.5] ips queue depths Jeffery, David
2002-10-15 19:30 ` Dave Hansen
2002-10-15 19:47 ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-15 20:04   ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-15 20:52     ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-15 23:30       ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-15 23:56         ` Luben Tuikov
2002-10-16  2:32         ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-16 19:04           ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-16 20:15             ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-17  0:39             ` Luben Tuikov
2002-10-17 17:01               ` Mike Anderson
2002-10-17 21:13                 ` Luben Tuikov
2002-10-15 20:10   ` Mike Anderson
2002-10-15 20:24     ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-15 20:38     ` James Bottomley
2002-10-15 22:10       ` Mike Anderson
2002-10-16  1:04         ` James Bottomley
2002-10-15 20:24   ` Mike Anderson
2002-10-15 22:46     ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-15 20:26   ` Luben Tuikov
2002-10-15 21:27     ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-16  0:43       ` Luben Tuikov
2002-10-21  7:28   ` Mike Anderson
2002-10-21 16:16     ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-21 16:29       ` James Bottomley
     [not found] <patmans@us.ibm.com>
2002-10-15 16:55 ` [RFC PATCH] consolidate SCSI-2 command lun setting Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-15 20:29   ` James Bottomley
2002-10-15 22:00     ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-30 16:58 ` [PATCH] 2.5 current bk fix setting scsi queue depths Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-30 17:17   ` James Bottomley
2002-10-30 18:05     ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-31  0:44       ` James Bottomley
2002-10-10 15:01 [PATCH] scsi host cleanup 3/3 (driver changes) Stephen Cameron
2002-10-10 16:46 ` Mike Anderson
2002-10-10 16:59   ` James Bottomley
2002-10-10 20:05     ` Mike Anderson
     [not found] <dledford@redhat.com>
2002-10-02  0:28 ` PATCH: scsi device queue depth adjustability patch Doug Ledford
2002-10-02  1:16   ` Alan Cox
2002-10-02  1:41     ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-02 13:44       ` Alan Cox
2002-10-02 21:41   ` James Bottomley
2002-10-02 22:18     ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-02 23:19       ` James Bottomley
2002-10-03 12:46       ` James Bottomley
2002-10-03 16:35         ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-04  1:40         ` Jeremy Higdon
2002-10-03 14:25   ` James Bottomley
2002-10-03 16:41     ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-03 17:00       ` James Bottomley
2002-10-16 21:35 ` scsi_scan.c question Doug Ledford
2002-10-16 21:41   ` James Bottomley
2002-10-17  0:18     ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-16 21:57   ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-18 15:57     ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-11-18  0:27 ` aic7xxx_biosparam Doug Ledford
2002-11-18  0:36   ` aic7xxx_biosparam J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-18  2:46     ` aic7xxx_biosparam Doug Ledford
2002-11-18  3:20       ` aic7xxx_biosparam J.E.J. Bottomley
2002-11-18  3:26         ` aic7xxx_biosparam Doug Ledford
2002-11-18  0:43   ` aic7xxx_biosparam Andries Brouwer
2002-11-18  2:47     ` aic7xxx_biosparam Doug Ledford
2002-11-18  0:57   ` aic7xxx_biosparam Alan Cox
2002-11-18  2:34     ` aic7xxx_biosparam Doug Ledford
2002-12-21  1:22 ` scsi_scan changes Doug Ledford
2002-12-21  1:27   ` James Bottomley
2008-10-31  1:02 ` RFC - device names and mdadm with some reference to udev greg
2008-10-31  9:18   ` Neil Brown
2008-11-02 13:52     ` Luca Berra
2002-09-30 21:06 [PATCH] first cut at fixing unable to requeue with no outstanding commands James Bottomley
2002-09-30 23:28 ` Mike Anderson
2002-10-01  0:38   ` James Bottomley
2002-10-01 15:01     ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-10-01 15:14       ` James Bottomley
2002-10-01 16:23         ` Mike Anderson
2002-10-01 16:30           ` James Bottomley
2002-10-01 20:18         ` Inhibit auto-attach of scsi disks ? Scott Merritt
2002-10-02  0:46           ` Alan Cox
2002-10-02  1:49             ` Scott Merritt
2002-10-02  1:58               ` Doug Ledford
2002-10-02  2:45                 ` Scott Merritt
2002-10-02 13:40               ` Alan Cox
2002-09-24 11:35 SCSI woes (followup) Russell King
2002-09-24 13:46 ` James Bottomley
2002-09-24 13:58   ` Russell King
2002-09-24 14:29     ` James Bottomley
2002-09-24 18:16       ` Luben Tuikov
2002-09-24 18:18     ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-24 19:01       ` Russell King
2002-09-24 19:08       ` Mike Anderson
2002-09-24 19:21         ` Russell King
2002-09-24 19:32       ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-24 20:00         ` Russell King
2002-09-24 22:23           ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-24 23:04             ` Russell King
2002-09-24 22:39         ` Russell King
2002-09-24 23:14           ` James Bottomley
2002-09-24 23:26             ` Mike Anderson
2002-09-24 23:31               ` James Bottomley
2002-09-24 23:56                 ` Mike Anderson
2002-09-24 23:33               ` Russell King
2002-09-25  0:47                 ` Mike Anderson
2002-09-25  8:45                   ` Russell King
2002-09-25  2:18                 ` Doug Ledford
2002-09-25 14:41               ` Russell King
2002-09-24 23:33           ` Mike Anderson
2002-09-24 23:45             ` Russell King
2002-09-25  0:08           ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-25  8:41             ` Russell King
2002-09-25 17:22               ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-25 12:46             ` Russell King
2002-09-24 17:57   ` Luben Tuikov
2002-09-24 18:39     ` Mike Anderson
2002-09-24 18:49       ` Luben Tuikov
2002-09-10 16:34 [RFC] Multi-path IO in 2.5/2.6 ? Cameron, Steve
2002-09-10 18:48 ` Alan Cox
2002-09-10 14:43 Cameron, Steve
2002-09-10 15:05 ` Alan Cox
2002-09-10 14:06 Cameron, Steve
2002-09-10 14:25 ` Alan Cox
2002-09-09 17:58 Ulrich Weigand
2002-09-09 10:49 Lars Marowsky-Bree
2002-09-09 12:23 ` Alan Cox
2002-09-10 10:30 ` Heinz J . Mauelshagen
2002-09-03 14:35 aic7xxx sets CDR offline, how to reset? James Bottomley
2002-09-03 18:23 ` Doug Ledford
2002-09-03 19:09   ` James Bottomley
2002-09-03 20:59     ` Alan Cox
2002-09-03 20:59       ` Alan Cox
2002-09-03 21:32       ` James Bottomley
2002-09-03 21:54         ` Alan Cox
2002-09-03 22:50         ` Doug Ledford
2002-09-03 23:28           ` Alan Cox
2002-09-04  7:40           ` Jeremy Higdon
2002-09-04 16:24             ` James Bottomley
2002-09-04 17:13               ` Mike Anderson
2002-09-05  9:50               ` Jeremy Higdon
2002-09-04 16:13           ` James Bottomley
2002-09-04 16:50             ` Justin T. Gibbs
2002-09-05  9:39               ` Jeremy Higdon
2002-09-05 13:35                 ` Justin T. Gibbs
2002-09-05 23:56                   ` Jeremy Higdon
2002-09-06  0:13                     ` Justin T. Gibbs
2002-09-06  0:32                       ` Jeremy Higdon
2002-09-03 21:13     ` Doug Ledford
2002-09-03 21:48       ` James Bottomley
2002-09-03 22:42         ` Doug Ledford
2002-09-03 22:52           ` Doug Ledford
2002-09-03 23:29           ` Alan Cox
2002-09-04 21:16           ` Luben Tuikov
2002-09-04 10:37         ` Andries Brouwer
2002-09-04 10:48           ` Doug Ledford
2002-09-04 11:23           ` Alan Cox
2002-09-04 16:25             ` Rogier Wolff
2002-09-04 19:34               ` Thunder from the hill
2002-09-04 19:34                 ` Thunder from the hill
2002-09-03 21:24     ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-09-03 22:02       ` James Bottomley
2002-09-03 23:26         ` Alan Cox
2002-08-26 16:29 [RFC]: 64 bit LUN/Tags, dummy device in host_queue, host_lock <-> LLDD reentrancy Aron Zeh
2002-08-26 16:48 ` James Bottomley
2002-08-26 17:27   ` Mike Anderson
2002-08-26 19:00     ` James Bottomley
2002-08-26 20:57       ` Mike Anderson
2002-08-26 21:10         ` James Bottomley
2002-08-26 22:38           ` Mike Anderson
2002-08-26 22:56             ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-08-26 23:10             ` Doug Ledford
2002-08-28 14:38             ` James Bottomley
2002-08-26 21:15         ` Mike Anderson
2002-08-12 23:38 [PATCH] 2.5.31 scsi_error.c cleanup Mike Anderson
2002-08-22 14:05 ` James Bottomley
2002-08-22 16:34   ` Mike Anderson
2002-08-22 17:11     ` James Bottomley
2002-08-22 20:10       ` Mike Anderson
2002-08-05 23:53 When must the io_request_lock be held? Jamie Wellnitz
2002-08-06 17:58 ` Mukul Kotwani
2002-08-07 14:48 ` Doug Ledford
2002-08-07 15:26   ` James Bottomley
2002-08-07 16:18     ` Doug Ledford
2002-08-07 16:48       ` James Bottomley
2002-08-07 18:06         ` Mike Anderson
2002-08-07 23:17           ` James Bottomley
2002-08-08 19:28         ` Luben Tuikov
2002-08-07 16:55       ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-06-11  2:46 Proposed changes to generic blk tag for use in SCSI (1/3) James Bottomley
2002-06-11  5:50 ` Jens Axboe
2002-06-11 14:29   ` James Bottomley
2002-06-11 14:45     ` Jens Axboe
2002-06-11 16:39       ` James Bottomley
2002-06-13 21:01 ` Doug Ledford
2002-06-13 21:26   ` James Bottomley
2002-06-13 21:26   ` James Bottomley
2002-06-13 21:50     ` Doug Ledford
2002-06-13 22:09       ` James Bottomley
2002-04-08 15:18 [RFC] Persistent naming of scsi devices sullivan
2002-04-08 15:04 ` Christoph Hellwig
2002-04-08 15:59   ` Matthew Jacob
2002-04-08 16:34   ` James Bottomley
2002-04-08 18:27     ` Patrick Mansfield
2002-04-08 19:17       ` James Bottomley
2002-04-09  0:22         ` Douglas Gilbert
2002-04-09 14:35           ` sullivan
2002-04-09 14:55         ` sullivan
2002-04-08 17:51   ` Oliver Neukum
2002-04-08 18:01     ` Christoph Hellwig
2002-04-08 18:18     ` Matthew Jacob
2002-04-08 18:28       ` James Bottomley
2002-04-08 18:34         ` Matthew Jacob
2002-04-08 19:07           ` James Bottomley
2002-04-08 20:41             ` Matthew Jacob
2002-04-08 18:45   ` Tigran Aivazian
2002-04-08 20:18 ` Eddie Williams
2002-04-09  0:48 ` Kurt Garloff

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