Re(3): Making this list more readable

Re(3): Making this list more readable

[Carol Anne Ogdin]

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Thanks, Athan...

I try to get it in digest so I can read it all at once at the end of the 
day.  When I was getting it message-by-message, I was finding messages 
getting lost in my voracious spam-killing mode.  I'm trying to learn 
iptables by watching how you experts help other folks' questions.

Question:  Would anybody be interested in a more user-friendly web-based 
solution for this list, so people could go back and read old threads 
instead of posing the same questions over 'n' over again?  I've got a free 
one available to me, if you'd like to try it.

--Carol Anne 
Carol Anne Ogdin
http://www.net-working.com
530/295-3657
Deep Woods Technology, Inc.
http://www.deepwoods.com
CAOgdin@deepwoods.com
Leveraging technology to restore the soul of the organization





Athan <netfilter@miggy.org>
01/08/2003 05:27 PM

 
        To:     Ian Batterbee <ian.batterbee@aut.ac.nz>
        cc:     netfilter@lists.netfilter.org, Athan <netfilter@miggy.org>, Carol Anne 
Ogdin <caogdin@deepwoods.com>
        Subject:        Re: Subject: Re: Making this list more readable





On Thu, Jan 09, 2003 at 12:37:32PM +1300, Ian Batterbee wrote:
> I see the problem as well.. I think it's caused by the fact that many of 

> the individual messages in the  are content-transfer-encoding: 
> quoted-printable, but the digest has no content-transfer-encoding in the 

> header, so the quoted-printable data inside the messages included in the 

> digest is treated as plain text and incorrectly formatted.
> 
> If we know that ALL messages contained in the digest are 
> quoted-printable, then it would just be a matter of changing the 
> content-type of the digest, but I've noticed the problem doesn't occur 
> on all messages.. some are fine.. so...  I guess people's mailers are 
> simply posting as quoted-printable, and the digest process is just 
> including the message body as-is

  Having checked and found this list is run with mailman, and then
checked the options for a list I have admin access to the solution is to
just make the digests 'plain' rather than 'mime'.  I presume the former
means you get one big file in mbox style, which may cause some people
problems too I guess.  This list is mailman 2.0.11, the one I checked is
2.0.12, so there's not going to be any extra options in this list's
config for it.

  Of course you could just read it in normal mode rather than digest ;).

-Ath
-- 
- Athanasius = Athanasius(at)miggy.org / http://www.miggy.org/
                  Finger athan(at)fysh.org for PGP key
                    "And it's me who is my enemy. Me who beats me up.
Me who makes the monsters. Me who strips my confidence." Paula Cole - ME



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Re: Making this list more readable

[Joel Newkirk]

On Wednesday 08 January 2003 09:02 pm, Carol Anne Ogdin wrote:
> Thanks, Athan...
>
> I try to get it in digest so I can read it all at once at the end of
> the day.  When I was getting it message-by-message, I was finding
> messages getting lost in my voracious spam-killing mode.  I'm trying

I get it msg-by-msg, and filter on "kashyyyk" to dump it all in a folder 
by itself.  (kashyyyk.netfilter.org is originating server, Kashyyyk 
being Chewbacca's homeworld in Star Wars)  Twenty or so filters, six 
mailing lists, 10 email folders, 15 people with special handling (IE 
forward to my mobile) and spam filters that catch about 85% of my 300 or 
so per month.  (All of those, until yesterday, come to the old email 
address I've had for about 7 years)  My email volume is quite low 
compared to a few years ago, but at about 100 msgs a day it would still 
be unbearable without automated presorting.

> to learn iptables by watching how you experts help other folks'
> questions.
>
> Question:  Would anybody be interested in a more user-friendly
> web-based solution for this list, so people could go back and read old
> threads instead of posing the same questions over 'n' over again? 
> I've got a free one available to me, if you'd like to try it.

For anyone interested, I received my first piece of spam yesterday 
addressed to netfilter@newkirk.us. (Nigerian 419 Fraud, of all things! 
Already forwarded to US Secret Service 419.fcd@usss.treas.gov 
subject=NoLoss  They like collecting those things :^)  Since I only use 
that addy on this list and derivative conversations, there's only two 
possibly ways it could have happened.  Either a subscriber harvested 
addy's or forwarded a message to someone who did, or (far more likely) 
someone harvested from the list archives.  WHY oh WHY aren't email 
addresses mangled or obscured on the publicly accessible archives?  This 
seems a fairly basic precaution given the exponential growth of 'the 
spam problem' lately.  Yes, Yes, I know all about filtering spam, but 
why invite it to begin with?  "google netfilter@newkirk.us" finds about 
130 hits, divided among securepoint.com, netfilter.org and spinics.net - 
all publicly accessible archives of the list.  No other hits, just 
archives.

Back to your question, the archive at msgs.securepoint.com/netfilter/ 
offers search capability, but apparently only keeps current and previous 
month postings around.  I think (at least I hope :^) that the majority 
of the "already asked a dozen times" questions come from people who are 
either not on the list, or recently joined.  Likely the only way search 
facility would be useful to them (and reduce repeat questions) is if it 
is in their faces _before_ they are in a position to actually post.  IE, 
if netfilter.org presented a search option right on the same page as the 
submission and subscription info.  If you set up a search it might help 
/us/ out, but I suspect that it wouldn't head off too many repeats.

> --Carol Anne
> Carol Anne Ogdin
> http://www.net-working.com
> 530/295-3657
> Deep Woods Technology, Inc.
> http://www.deepwoods.com
> CAOgdin@deepwoods.com
> Leveraging technology to restore the soul of the organization

j

ps - I really hope that if someone harvests THIS message they extract the 
email address in that middle paragraph and start spamming it.  Should 
set some interesting reactions in motion... :^)

Making this list more readable

[Carol Anne Ogdin]

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Is there any way to change the listserv so it doesn't convert control 
characters (e.g., tabs, quotes and spaces at ends of lines) to '=xx' form 
of hex characters.  It's hard to read.  (I read the digest, so perhaps the 
problem lies there, and not in the main listserv?)

Does your listserv software have a conversion table you can set that will 
make things more readable?

Thanks

--Carol Anne

Examples include these from a recent digest:

> F1=3D"eth0"
> IF2=3D"eth1"   (what's the "=3D" mean?)

and


with the cisco's firewall enabled.  If this fails, I suspect the 
cisco's=20
configuration is blocking outbound replies, so you'd have to dig there.=20

(What to the trailing "=20" sequences add?  They appear to be spaces in 
the original message.)

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Re: Making this list more readable

[Athan]

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On Wed, Jan 08, 2003 at 08:59:16AM -0800, Carol Anne Ogdin wrote:
>    Is there any way to change the listserv so it doesn't convert control
>    characters (e.g., tabs, quotes and spaces at ends of lines) to '=xx'
>    form of hex characters.  It's hard to read.  (I read the digest, so
>    perhaps the problem lies there, and not in the main listserv?)
>    Does your listserv software have a conversion table you can set that
>    will make things more readable?

  I don't see this, and I'm getting the list direct.  The =XX thing is
"Quoted Printable" encoding.  Probably an option on the listserv to turn
it on/off for the digest.

-Ath
-- 
- Athanasius = Athanasius(at)miggy.org / http://www.miggy.org/
                  Finger athan(at)fysh.org for PGP key
	   "And it's me who is my enemy. Me who beats me up.
Me who makes the monsters. Me who strips my confidence." Paula Cole - ME

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