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From: David Brownell <david-b@pacbell.net>
To: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@osdl.org>
Cc: linux-pm@lists.osdl.org, Pavel Machek <pavel@ucw.cz>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2006 14:21:20 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200606211421.20402.david-b@pacbell.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0606202109410.5498@g5.osdl.org>

On Tuesday 20 June 2006 9:22 pm, Linus Torvalds wrote:
> 
> 
> Let's cut right to the chase:
>  - I think "image save" is snapshotting
>  - I think snapshotting is well-defined (and possibly useful) without any 
>    suspend activity what-so-ever.
>  - I think that anybody who confuses and mixes the two is (a) missing the 
>    real potential of snapshotting, but even more importantly (b) making it 
>    much more complex by having the wrong mental model.

Preaching to the choir here.  Snapshotting gets interest on the low end
as a way to accelerate system startup, and on the high end as a way to
enable checkpoint+failover as a high-availability tool.  (Don't restart
that month-long simulation run the day before completion; just restore
the last checkpoint before the backhoe powered down that part of the city.)

So a snapshot mechanism that decouples from swsusp would be a Good Thing.

- Dave


> Mental models are supremely important. Often you can say that they don't 
> actually matter, because the end result should be the same, but the fact 
> is, they have a huge impact on _how_ people think, and on how you get to 
> the end result. 

  parent reply	other threads:[~2006-06-21 21:21 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 348+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2006-06-13 21:30 [PATCH 0/2] suspend-to-ram debugging patches Linus Torvalds
2006-06-13 21:35 ` [PATCH 1/2] Add some basic resume trace facilities Linus Torvalds
2006-06-13 22:10   ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-13 22:50     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-14 10:25   ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-13 21:40 ` [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume Linus Torvalds
2006-06-13 23:20   ` David Brownell
2006-06-13 23:46     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-14  0:00       ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-14  0:06         ` Randy.Dunlap
2006-06-14  0:18         ` Greg KH
2006-06-14  0:29           ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-14  0:34         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-14  0:29       ` David Brownell
2006-06-14 10:28     ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-14 11:15       ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-14 15:28       ` David Brownell
2006-06-14 10:34   ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-14 15:21     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-14 17:52       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-14 18:09         ` Dave Jones
2006-06-14 18:29           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-14 19:13             ` Peter Jones
2006-06-14 19:17               ` Dave Jones
2006-06-14 21:40         ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-14 22:03           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-14 22:12             ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-14 22:26               ` Peter Jones
2006-06-14 22:38                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-14 22:44                   ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-14 22:59                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-14 23:57                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15  0:07                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15  1:54                           ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-15  2:48                             ` David Brownell
2006-06-15  8:39                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 14:56                                 ` Alan Stern
2006-06-15 16:14                                   ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 16:26                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 18:24                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 19:35                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 20:03                                           ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 20:28                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 20:43                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 21:04                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 21:27                                                   ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 22:31                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 23:01                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16  4:15                                                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16 13:26                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16 23:05                                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-15 16:43                                 ` David Brownell
2006-06-15 16:52                                   ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16  6:02                                     ` David Brownell
2006-06-15 16:17                           ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 16:53                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 16:59                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 17:41                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 17:51                                   ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16  1:09                                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-15 17:04                               ` Alan Stern
2006-06-15 22:17                               ` Paul Mackerras
2006-06-15 22:24                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16  1:17                                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16  1:15                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16  2:28                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-16  2:50                                   ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-16  3:22                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-16  3:36                                       ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-16 14:03                                   ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16 15:53                                     ` Alan Stern
2006-06-15  1:46                         ` David Brownell
2006-06-15  6:00                           ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-15 16:22                             ` David Brownell
2006-06-15  8:41                           ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 16:57                             ` David Brownell
2006-06-15 18:03                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 18:31                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 19:19                                   ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 19:40                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 20:30                                       ` Alan Stern
2006-06-15 20:56                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 21:10                                           ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 22:01                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 22:20                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 22:41                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-16 13:29                                                   ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 22:21                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15 22:44                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15 21:27                                           ` Alan Stern
2006-06-15 22:18                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-16 12:49                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16 13:22                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16  1:31                                           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16  2:53                                             ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-16  3:16                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-16  4:04                                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16  1:26                                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16  2:36                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-16  3:37                                           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16  4:37                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-16  6:02                                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16 13:56                                           ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16  1:21                                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16  2:29                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-16  3:33                                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16  4:35                                       ` David Brownell
2006-06-16  5:23                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-16  6:18                                           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16 13:42                                           ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16 16:48                                           ` David Brownell
2006-06-16 13:58                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16 14:04                                 ` David Brownell
2006-06-16 18:31                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-16 18:45                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-16 23:04                                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-18 17:16                                         ` David Brownell
2006-06-16 21:28                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-18 17:09                                       ` David Brownell
2006-06-18 17:16                                     ` David Brownell
2006-06-18 17:48                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-18 18:18                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-19  0:34                                           ` David Brownell
2006-06-20  2:15                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-20 22:47                                           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-19  3:54                                         ` David Brownell
2006-06-20 22:06                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-21 21:17                                             ` David Brownell
2006-06-20 22:44                                         ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-21  0:49                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-21  1:10                                             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-21  2:40                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-21  2:57                                                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-21  3:23                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-21  3:59                                                     ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-21  4:22                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-21  4:36                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-21  5:04                                                           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-21 15:15                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-21 15:33                                                               ` Alan Stern
2006-06-21 16:03                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-21 16:35                                                                   ` Alan Stern
2006-06-21 17:04                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-21 18:53                                                                       ` Alan Stern
2006-06-21 20:49                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22  2:16                                                                           ` David Brownell
2006-06-22  1:04                                                                         ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22  1:01                                                                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22  2:22                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22  2:47                                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22  3:21                                                                             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22  3:18                                                                           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22  4:08                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22  4:58                                                                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22 16:10                                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22 18:30                                                                                   ` David Brownell
2006-06-22 19:23                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22 22:43                                                                                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-23 18:06                                                                                       ` David Brownell
2006-06-23 19:23                                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-23 23:32                                                                                           ` Adam Belay
2006-06-23 23:44                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-24  0:10                                                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-24  0:39                                                                                                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-24  3:30                                                                                                 ` David Brownell
2006-06-24  4:10                                                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-24  0:22                                                                                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-24  0:29                                                                                                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-24  1:00                                                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-24  2:42                                                                                               ` Adam Belay
2006-06-24  3:12                                                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-24  4:04                                                                                                   ` David Brownell
2006-06-24  4:35                                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-25  8:23                                                                                                     ` Adam Belay
2006-06-25 17:15                                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-26 23:30                                                                                                       ` Greg KH
2006-06-24  4:07                                                                                                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-24 11:16                                                                                                     ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-24 16:24                                                                                                     ` Alan Stern
2006-06-24 22:28                                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-24 22:41                                                                                                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-25  1:30                                                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-25  2:16                                                                                                           ` Alan Stern
2006-06-25  2:32                                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-25 16:35                                                                                                               ` Alan Stern
2006-06-25  2:02                                                                                                         ` Alan Stern
2006-06-25 23:56                                                                                                         ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-26 23:31                                                                                                         ` Greg KH
2006-06-24 22:39                                                                                                     ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-29  0:37                                                                                                     ` Greg KH
2006-06-29  0:48                                                                                                       ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-29  3:09                                                                                                         ` Greg KH
2006-06-29  3:24                                                                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-29  4:21                                                                                                             ` Greg KH
2006-06-29  6:26                                                                                                               ` Greg KH
2006-06-29 22:58                                                                                                                 ` Greg KH
2006-06-29  9:50                                                                                                             ` Pavel Machek
2006-07-06 22:27                                                                                                             ` David Brownell
2006-07-06 22:31                                                                                                               ` Greg KH
2006-07-08 17:45                                                                                                                 ` PM_TRACE causing FSCK David Brownell
2006-07-06 23:27                                                                                                               ` [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume Dave Jones
2006-07-06 23:43                                                                                                                 ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-06 23:59                                                                                                                   ` Dave Jones
2006-07-07  4:48                                                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-07  8:35                                                                                                                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-07-06 23:51                                                                                                                 ` David Brownell
2006-07-09 23:28                                                                                                               ` David Brownell
2006-07-10  7:53                                                                                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-07-25 18:17                                                                                                               ` bus.suspend_prepare() David Brownell
2006-07-25 18:29                                                                                                                 ` bus.suspend_prepare() Linus Torvalds
2006-07-25 19:17                                                                                                                   ` bus.suspend_prepare() David Brownell
2006-07-25 22:24                                                                                                                     ` bus.suspend_prepare() Nigel Cunningham
2006-07-26 10:12                                                                                                                       ` bus.suspend_prepare() Pavel Machek
2006-07-26 10:11                                                                                                                     ` bus.suspend_prepare() Pavel Machek
2006-06-24  4:52                                                                                                   ` [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-24  5:18                                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-24  6:30                                                                                                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-24 17:06                                                                                                         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-06-27  6:08                                                                                                         ` Adam Belay
2006-06-27  6:18                                                                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-27  6:58                                                                                                             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-27 18:50                                                                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-27 22:09                                                                                                                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-27  7:07                                                                                                             ` Adam Belay
2006-06-27 15:33                                                                                                             ` Alan Stern
2006-06-28  0:16                                                                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-05 18:40                                                                                                             ` David Brownell
2006-07-05 20:12                                                                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-07-05 23:03                                                                                                                 ` David Brownell
2006-07-06  1:15                                                                                                                   ` Pavel Machek
2006-07-06  1:52                                                                                                                     ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-07-06  7:15                                                                                                                       ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-07-06 13:22                                                                                                                         ` memcpy() in swsusp (was: Re: [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume) Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-07-06 14:19                                                                                                                           ` David Brownell
2006-07-06 14:26                                                                                                                             ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-07-06 20:35                                                                                                                               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-07-06 23:36                                                                                                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-07-06 20:44                                                                                                                               ` David Brownell
2006-07-06 20:55                                                                                                                                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-07-06 21:01                                                                                                                                 ` Dave Jones
2006-07-06 21:07                                                                                                                                   ` David Brownell
2006-07-06 21:18                                                                                                                                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-07-06 22:06                                                                                                                                       ` Dave Jones
2006-07-07  8:20                                                                                                                                         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-06-24  6:41                                                                                                       ` [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-24 11:58                                                                                                         ` Nigel Cunningham
2006-06-24 21:20                                                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-25  1:10                                                                                                         ` David Brownell
2006-06-28 22:13                                                                                                         ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-24  3:33                                                                                               ` David Brownell
2006-06-23 23:53                                                                                           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-24  3:28                                                                                             ` David Brownell
2006-06-24 21:33                                                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-25  1:00                                                                                                 ` David Brownell
2006-06-24  3:28                                                                                           ` David Brownell
2006-06-24 11:57                                                                                           ` Jim Gettys
2006-06-25 23:03                                                                                             ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-25 23:18                                                                                               ` Jim Gettys
2006-07-03 21:32                                                                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-26  0:16                                                                                               ` David Brownell
2006-06-28 22:16                                                                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-28 23:38                                                                                                   ` David Brownell
2006-06-22 22:21                                                                                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22 22:31                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22 23:11                                                                                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22 23:19                                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22 23:21                                                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22 23:31                                                                                           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22 23:41                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-23  0:01                                                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-23  0:14                                                                                                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-23  0:05                                                                                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-23  0:08                                                                                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-23 16:26                                                                                             ` David Brownell
2006-06-23 20:36                                                                                               ` Adam Belay
2006-06-23 21:48                                                                                                 ` cpufreq-related updates [WAS: Fix console handling during suspend/resume] David Brownell
2006-06-23 22:10                                                                                                   ` Greg KH
2006-06-23 23:54                                                                                                     ` David Brownell
2006-06-23 22:53                                                                                                   ` Adam Belay
2006-06-22 23:31                                                                                           ` [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume Pavel Machek
2006-06-22 23:42                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22 23:51                                                                                               ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-23 18:15                                                                                                 ` David Brownell
2006-06-24 21:35                                                                                                   ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-24 22:00                                                                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-25  0:57                                                                                                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-25  1:05                                                                                                         ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-25  1:12                                                                                                           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-25  1:34                                                                                                             ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-25  2:21                                                                                                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-25 23:09                                                                                                           ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-22 23:53                                                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22 23:56                                                                                                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-23 16:37                                                                                         ` David Brownell
2006-06-22 23:13                                                                                       ` suspend debuggability [was Re: [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume] Pavel Machek
2006-06-22  5:52                                                                             ` [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume David Brownell
2006-06-22  6:28                                                                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22 16:43                                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22 18:19                                                                                 ` David Brownell
2006-06-23 17:18                                                                       ` David Brownell
2006-06-23 17:43                                                                       ` David Brownell
2006-06-23 18:18                                                                       ` wakeup events [WAS: Re*N Fix console handling] David Brownell
2006-06-21 21:13                                                                   ` [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume David Brownell
2006-06-22  0:42                                                                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-21 22:54                                                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22  0:15                                                               ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22  2:21                                                                 ` David Brownell
2006-06-22  3:23                                                                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22  5:36                                                                     ` David Brownell
2006-06-22 16:17                                                                     ` Alan Stern
2006-06-22 18:27                                                                       ` David Brownell
2006-06-22 20:31                                                                         ` Alan Stern
2006-06-22 23:48                                                                           ` David Brownell
2006-06-23  2:41                                                                             ` Alan Stern
2006-06-23 16:43                                                                               ` David Brownell
2006-06-23 18:32                                                                             ` Alan Stern
2006-06-24  3:39                                                                               ` David Brownell
2006-06-24 16:19                                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2006-06-25  2:20                                                                                 ` Alan Stern
2006-06-22 22:30                                                                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-23  2:35                                                                         ` Alan Stern
2006-06-21 21:22                                                           ` David Brownell
2006-06-21  4:45                                                         ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-21 15:08                                                           ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-21 22:51                                                             ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22  0:48                                                               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-21 21:21                                                         ` David Brownell [this message]
2006-06-21 21:18                                                 ` David Brownell
2006-06-22  1:08                                                   ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-22  1:24                                                     ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-22  1:33                                                       ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-14 23:02                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-06-14 23:32                       ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15  9:39                         ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2006-06-16  0:47                           ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16  1:03                 ` Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-14 22:37               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15  0:00                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-15  0:12                   ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15  9:11                     ` suspend-devices-not-cpu [was Re: [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume] Pavel Machek
2006-06-15  0:39                 ` [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume Adam Belay
2006-06-15  0:40                   ` Greg KH
2006-06-15  1:50                     ` Adam Belay
2006-06-15  0:01               ` Linus Torvalds
2006-06-15  8:23                 ` Pavel Machek
2006-06-16  1:02         ` suspend/resume issue (Was: [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume) Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16  8:01   ` [PATCH 2/2] Fix console handling during suspend/resume Benjamin Herrenschmidt
2006-06-16  0:45 ` [PATCH 0/2] suspend-to-ram debugging patches Benjamin Herrenschmidt

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