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From: Matt Mackall <mpm@selenic.com>
To: Christoph Lameter <clameter@sgi.com>
Cc: Daniel Phillips <phillips@phunq.net>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Daniel Phillips <phillips@google.com>,
	Pekka Enberg <penberg@cs.helsinki.fi>,
	Lee Schermerhorn <Lee.Schermerhorn@hp.com>,
	Steve Dickson <SteveD@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 02/10] mm: system wide ALLOC_NO_WATERMARK
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 15:12:57 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070806201257.GG11115@waste.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0708061150270.7603@schroedinger.engr.sgi.com>

On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 11:51:45AM -0700, Christoph Lameter wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> 
> > On Monday 06 August 2007 11:42, Christoph Lameter wrote:
> > > On Mon, 6 Aug 2007, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> > > > Currently your system likely would have died here, so ending up
> > > > with a reserve page temporarily on the wrong node is already an
> > > > improvement.
> > >
> > > The system would have died? Why?
> > 
> > Because a block device may have deadlocked here, leaving the system 
> > unable to clean dirty memory, or unable to load executables over the 
> > network for example.
> 
> So this is a locking problem that has not been taken care of?

No.

It's very simple:

1) memory becomes full
2) we try to free memory by paging or swapping
3) I/O requires a memory allocation which fails because memory is full
4) box dies because it's unable to dig itself out of OOM

Most I/O paths can deal with this by having a mempool for their I/O
needs. For network I/O, this turns out to be prohibitively hard due to
the complexity of the stack.

-- 
Mathematics is the supreme nostalgia of our time.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Matt Mackall <mpm@selenic.com>
To: Christoph Lameter <clameter@sgi.com>
Cc: Daniel Phillips <phillips@phunq.net>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org, linux-mm@kvack.org,
	David Miller <davem@davemloft.net>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Daniel Phillips <phillips@google.com>,
	Pekka Enberg <penberg@cs.helsinki.fi>,
	Lee Schermerhorn <Lee.Schermerhorn@hp.com>,
	Steve Dickson <SteveD@redhat.com>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 02/10] mm: system wide ALLOC_NO_WATERMARK
Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2007 15:12:57 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20070806201257.GG11115@waste.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0708061150270.7603@schroedinger.engr.sgi.com>

On Mon, Aug 06, 2007 at 11:51:45AM -0700, Christoph Lameter wrote:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> 
> > On Monday 06 August 2007 11:42, Christoph Lameter wrote:
> > > On Mon, 6 Aug 2007, Daniel Phillips wrote:
> > > > Currently your system likely would have died here, so ending up
> > > > with a reserve page temporarily on the wrong node is already an
> > > > improvement.
> > >
> > > The system would have died? Why?
> > 
> > Because a block device may have deadlocked here, leaving the system 
> > unable to clean dirty memory, or unable to load executables over the 
> > network for example.
> 
> So this is a locking problem that has not been taken care of?

No.

It's very simple:

1) memory becomes full
2) we try to free memory by paging or swapping
3) I/O requires a memory allocation which fails because memory is full
4) box dies because it's unable to dig itself out of OOM

Most I/O paths can deal with this by having a mempool for their I/O
needs. For network I/O, this turns out to be prohibitively hard due to
the complexity of the stack.

-- 
Mathematics is the supreme nostalgia of our time.

--
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  parent reply	other threads:[~2007-08-06 20:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 166+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2007-08-06 10:29 [PATCH 00/10] foundations for reserve-based allocation Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29 ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29 ` [PATCH 01/10] mm: gfp_to_alloc_flags() Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29 ` [PATCH 02/10] mm: system wide ALLOC_NO_WATERMARK Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 18:11   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 18:11     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 18:21     ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 18:21       ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 18:31       ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 18:31         ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 18:43         ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 18:43           ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 19:11         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 19:11           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 19:31           ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 19:31             ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 20:12             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 20:12               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 18:42       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 18:42         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 18:48         ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 18:48           ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 18:51           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 18:51             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 19:15             ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 19:15               ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 20:12             ` Matt Mackall [this message]
2007-08-06 20:12               ` Matt Mackall
2007-08-06 20:19               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 20:19                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 20:26                 ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 21:05                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 21:05                     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 22:59                     ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 22:59                       ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 23:14                       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 23:14                         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 23:49                         ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 23:49                           ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-07 22:18                           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-07 22:18                             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-08  7:24                             ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-08 18:06                               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-08 18:06                                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-08  7:37                             ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-08  7:37                               ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-08 18:09                               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-08 18:09                                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-09 18:41                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-09 18:41                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-09 18:49                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-09 18:49                                     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-10  0:17                                     ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-10  0:17                                       ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-10  1:48                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-10  1:48                                         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-10  3:34                                         ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-10  3:34                                           ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-10  3:48                                           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-10  3:48                                             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-10  8:15                                             ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-10  8:15                                               ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-10 17:46                                               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-10 17:46                                                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-10 23:25                                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-10 23:25                                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-13  6:55                                                 ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-13  6:55                                                   ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-13 23:04                                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-13 23:04                                                     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 20:27                 ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-06 20:27                   ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-06 23:16                   ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 23:16                     ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 22:47                 ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 22:47                   ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 10:29 ` [PATCH 03/10] mm: tag reseve pages Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 18:11   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 18:11     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 18:13     ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 18:13       ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 18:28     ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 18:28       ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 19:34     ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-06 19:34       ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-06 18:43       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 18:43         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 18:47         ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 18:47           ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 18:59           ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-06 18:59             ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-06 19:09             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 19:09               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 19:10             ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-06 19:10               ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-06 19:16               ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 19:16                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 19:38               ` Matt Mackall
2007-08-06 19:38                 ` Matt Mackall
2007-08-06 20:18               ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-06 20:18                 ` Andi Kleen
2007-08-06 10:29 ` [PATCH 04/10] mm: slub: add knowledge of reserve pages Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-08  0:13   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-08  0:13     ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-08  1:44     ` Matt Mackall
2007-08-08  1:44       ` Matt Mackall
2007-08-08 17:13       ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-08 17:13         ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-08 17:39         ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-08 17:39           ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-08 17:57           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-08 17:57             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-08 18:46             ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-08 18:46               ` Andrew Morton
2007-08-10  1:54               ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-10  1:54                 ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-10  2:01                 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-10  2:01                   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-20  7:38   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-20  7:43     ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-20  7:43       ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-20  9:12     ` Pekka J Enberg
2007-08-20  9:12       ` Pekka J Enberg
2007-08-20  9:17       ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-20  9:28         ` Pekka Enberg
2007-08-20  9:28           ` Pekka Enberg
2007-08-20 19:26           ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-20 19:26             ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-20 20:08             ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-20 20:08               ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29 ` [PATCH 05/10] mm: allow mempool to fall back to memalloc reserves Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29 ` [PATCH 06/10] mm: kmem_estimate_pages() Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29 ` [PATCH 07/10] mm: allow PF_MEMALLOC from softirq context Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29 ` [PATCH 08/10] mm: serialize access to min_free_kbytes Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29 ` [PATCH 09/10] mm: emergency pool Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29 ` [PATCH 10/10] mm: __GFP_MEMALLOC Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 10:29   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 17:35 ` [PATCH 00/10] foundations for reserve-based allocation Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 17:35   ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 18:17   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 18:17     ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 18:40     ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 18:40       ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 19:31     ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 19:31       ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 19:36       ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 19:36         ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 19:53         ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 19:53           ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-06 17:56 ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 17:56   ` Christoph Lameter
2007-08-06 18:33   ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 18:33     ` Peter Zijlstra
2007-08-06 20:23 ` Matt Mackall
2007-08-06 20:23   ` Matt Mackall
2007-08-07  0:09   ` Daniel Phillips
2007-08-07  0:09     ` Daniel Phillips

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