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From: Andrea Arcangeli <andrea@qumranet.com>
To: Christoph Lameter <clameter@sgi.com>
Cc: Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	steiner@sgi.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Avi Kivity <avi@qumranet.com>,
	kvm-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, daniel.blueman@quadrics.com,
	Robin Holt <holt@sgi.com>, Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>
Subject: Re: [kvm-devel] [patch 2/6] mmu_notifier: Callbacks to invalidate address ranges
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:34:34 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080131003434.GE7185@v2.random> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0801301555550.1722@schroedinger.engr.sgi.com>

On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 04:01:31PM -0800, Christoph Lameter wrote:
> How we offload that? Before the scan of the rmaps we do not have the 
> mmstruct. So we'd need another notifier_rmap_callback.

My assumption is that that "int lock" exists just because
unmap_mapping_range_vma exists. If I'm right then my suggestion was to
move the invalidate_range after dropping the i_mmap_lock and not to
invoke it inside zap_page_range.

> The obvious solution does not scale. You will have a callback for every 

Scale is the wrong word. The PT lock will prevent any other cpu to
trash on the mmu_lock, so it's a fixed cost for each pte_clear with no
scalability risk, nor any complexity issue. Certainly we could average
certain fixed costs over more than one pte_clear to boost performance,
and that's good idea. Not really a short term concern, we need to swap
reliably first ;).

> page and there may be a million of those if you have a 4GB process.

That can be optimized adding a __ptep_clear_flush and an
invalidate_pages (let's call it pages to better show it's an
'clustered' version of invalidate_page, to avoid the confusion with
_range_before/after that does an entirely different thing). Also for
_range I tend to like before/after, as a means to say before the
pte_clear and after the pte_clear but any other meaning is ok with me.

We add invalidate_page and invalidate_pages
immediately. invalidate_pages may never be called initially by the
linux VM, we can start calling it later as we replace ptep_clear_flush
with __ptep_clear_flush (or local_ptep_clear_flush).

I don't see any problem with this approach and it looks quite clean to
me and it leaves you full room for experimenting in practice with
range_before/after while knowing those range_before/after won't
require many changes.

And for things like the age_page it will never happen that you could
call the respective ptep_clear_flush_young w/o mmu notifier age_page
after it, so you won't ever risk having to add an age_pages or a
__ptep_clear_flush_young.

> We need to have a coherent notifier solution that works for multiple 
> scenarios. I think a working invalidate_range would also be required for 
> KVM. KVM and GRUB are very similar so they should be able to use the same 
> mechanisms and we need to properly document how that mechanism is safe. 
> Either both take a page refcount or none.

There's no reason why KVM should take any risk of corrupting memory
due to a single missing mmu notifier, with not taking the
refcount. get_user_pages will take it for us, so we have to pay the
atomic-op anyway. It sure worth doing the atomic_dec inside the mmu
notifier, and not immediately like this:

	  get_user_pages(pages)
	  __free_page(pages[0])

The idea is that what works for GRU, works for KVM too. So we do a
single invalidate_page and clustered invalidate_pages, we add that,
and then we make sure all places are covered so GRU will not
kernel-crash, and KVM won't risk to run oom or to generate _userland_
corruption.

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Andrea Arcangeli <andrea-atKUWr5tajBWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
To: Christoph Lameter <clameter-sJ/iWh9BUns@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Nick Piggin <npiggin-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra
	<a.p.zijlstra-/NLkJaSkS4VmR6Xm/wNWPw@public.gmane.org>,
	kvm-devel-5NWGOfrQmneRv+LV9MX5uipxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt
	<benh-XVmvHMARGAS8U2dJNN8I7kB+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>,
	steiner-sJ/iWh9BUns@public.gmane.org,
	linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
	Avi Kivity <avi-atKUWr5tajBWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>,
	linux-mm-Bw31MaZKKs3YtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org,
	daniel.blueman-xqY44rlHlBpWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org,
	Robin Holt <holt-sJ/iWh9BUns@public.gmane.org>,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh-DTz5qymZ9yRBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [patch 2/6] mmu_notifier: Callbacks to invalidate	address ranges
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:34:34 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080131003434.GE7185@v2.random> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0801301555550.1722-RYO/mD75kfhx2SFC9UQUAuF7EQX82lMiAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org>

On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 04:01:31PM -0800, Christoph Lameter wrote:
> How we offload that? Before the scan of the rmaps we do not have the 
> mmstruct. So we'd need another notifier_rmap_callback.

My assumption is that that "int lock" exists just because
unmap_mapping_range_vma exists. If I'm right then my suggestion was to
move the invalidate_range after dropping the i_mmap_lock and not to
invoke it inside zap_page_range.

> The obvious solution does not scale. You will have a callback for every 

Scale is the wrong word. The PT lock will prevent any other cpu to
trash on the mmu_lock, so it's a fixed cost for each pte_clear with no
scalability risk, nor any complexity issue. Certainly we could average
certain fixed costs over more than one pte_clear to boost performance,
and that's good idea. Not really a short term concern, we need to swap
reliably first ;).

> page and there may be a million of those if you have a 4GB process.

That can be optimized adding a __ptep_clear_flush and an
invalidate_pages (let's call it pages to better show it's an
'clustered' version of invalidate_page, to avoid the confusion with
_range_before/after that does an entirely different thing). Also for
_range I tend to like before/after, as a means to say before the
pte_clear and after the pte_clear but any other meaning is ok with me.

We add invalidate_page and invalidate_pages
immediately. invalidate_pages may never be called initially by the
linux VM, we can start calling it later as we replace ptep_clear_flush
with __ptep_clear_flush (or local_ptep_clear_flush).

I don't see any problem with this approach and it looks quite clean to
me and it leaves you full room for experimenting in practice with
range_before/after while knowing those range_before/after won't
require many changes.

And for things like the age_page it will never happen that you could
call the respective ptep_clear_flush_young w/o mmu notifier age_page
after it, so you won't ever risk having to add an age_pages or a
__ptep_clear_flush_young.

> We need to have a coherent notifier solution that works for multiple 
> scenarios. I think a working invalidate_range would also be required for 
> KVM. KVM and GRUB are very similar so they should be able to use the same 
> mechanisms and we need to properly document how that mechanism is safe. 
> Either both take a page refcount or none.

There's no reason why KVM should take any risk of corrupting memory
due to a single missing mmu notifier, with not taking the
refcount. get_user_pages will take it for us, so we have to pay the
atomic-op anyway. It sure worth doing the atomic_dec inside the mmu
notifier, and not immediately like this:

	  get_user_pages(pages)
	  __free_page(pages[0])

The idea is that what works for GRU, works for KVM too. So we do a
single invalidate_page and clustered invalidate_pages, we add that,
and then we make sure all places are covered so GRU will not
kernel-crash, and KVM won't risk to run oom or to generate _userland_
corruption.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Andrea Arcangeli <andrea@qumranet.com>
To: Christoph Lameter <clameter@sgi.com>
Cc: Nick Piggin <npiggin@suse.de>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>,
	linux-mm@kvack.org,
	Benjamin Herrenschmidt <benh@kernel.crashing.org>,
	steiner@sgi.com, linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org,
	Avi Kivity <avi@qumranet.com>,
	kvm-devel@lists.sourceforge.net, daniel.blueman@quadrics.com,
	Robin Holt <holt@sgi.com>, Hugh Dickins <hugh@veritas.com>
Subject: Re: [kvm-devel] [patch 2/6] mmu_notifier: Callbacks to invalidate address ranges
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 01:34:34 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20080131003434.GE7185@v2.random> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0801301555550.1722@schroedinger.engr.sgi.com>

On Wed, Jan 30, 2008 at 04:01:31PM -0800, Christoph Lameter wrote:
> How we offload that? Before the scan of the rmaps we do not have the 
> mmstruct. So we'd need another notifier_rmap_callback.

My assumption is that that "int lock" exists just because
unmap_mapping_range_vma exists. If I'm right then my suggestion was to
move the invalidate_range after dropping the i_mmap_lock and not to
invoke it inside zap_page_range.

> The obvious solution does not scale. You will have a callback for every 

Scale is the wrong word. The PT lock will prevent any other cpu to
trash on the mmu_lock, so it's a fixed cost for each pte_clear with no
scalability risk, nor any complexity issue. Certainly we could average
certain fixed costs over more than one pte_clear to boost performance,
and that's good idea. Not really a short term concern, we need to swap
reliably first ;).

> page and there may be a million of those if you have a 4GB process.

That can be optimized adding a __ptep_clear_flush and an
invalidate_pages (let's call it pages to better show it's an
'clustered' version of invalidate_page, to avoid the confusion with
_range_before/after that does an entirely different thing). Also for
_range I tend to like before/after, as a means to say before the
pte_clear and after the pte_clear but any other meaning is ok with me.

We add invalidate_page and invalidate_pages
immediately. invalidate_pages may never be called initially by the
linux VM, we can start calling it later as we replace ptep_clear_flush
with __ptep_clear_flush (or local_ptep_clear_flush).

I don't see any problem with this approach and it looks quite clean to
me and it leaves you full room for experimenting in practice with
range_before/after while knowing those range_before/after won't
require many changes.

And for things like the age_page it will never happen that you could
call the respective ptep_clear_flush_young w/o mmu notifier age_page
after it, so you won't ever risk having to add an age_pages or a
__ptep_clear_flush_young.

> We need to have a coherent notifier solution that works for multiple 
> scenarios. I think a working invalidate_range would also be required for 
> KVM. KVM and GRUB are very similar so they should be able to use the same 
> mechanisms and we need to properly document how that mechanism is safe. 
> Either both take a page refcount or none.

There's no reason why KVM should take any risk of corrupting memory
due to a single missing mmu notifier, with not taking the
refcount. get_user_pages will take it for us, so we have to pay the
atomic-op anyway. It sure worth doing the atomic_dec inside the mmu
notifier, and not immediately like this:

	  get_user_pages(pages)
	  __free_page(pages[0])

The idea is that what works for GRU, works for KVM too. So we do a
single invalidate_page and clustered invalidate_pages, we add that,
and then we make sure all places are covered so GRU will not
kernel-crash, and KVM won't risk to run oom or to generate _userland_
corruption.

--
To unsubscribe, send a message with 'unsubscribe linux-mm' in
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  reply	other threads:[~2008-01-31  0:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 197+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-01-28 20:28 [patch 0/6] [RFC] MMU Notifiers V2 Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28 ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28 ` [patch 1/6] mmu_notifier: Core code Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 22:06   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 22:06     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 22:06     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29  0:05   ` Robin Holt
2008-01-29  0:05     ` Robin Holt
2008-01-29  0:05     ` Robin Holt
2008-01-29  1:19     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29  1:19       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29  1:19       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 13:59   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 13:59     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 13:59     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 14:34     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 14:34       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 14:34       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 19:49     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 19:49       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 19:49       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 20:41       ` Avi Kivity
2008-01-29 20:41         ` Avi Kivity
2008-01-29 20:41         ` Avi Kivity
2008-01-29 16:07   ` Robin Holt
2008-01-29 16:07     ` Robin Holt
2008-01-29 16:07     ` Robin Holt
2008-02-05 18:05   ` Andy Whitcroft
2008-02-05 18:05     ` Andy Whitcroft
2008-02-05 18:05     ` Andy Whitcroft
2008-02-05 18:17     ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-02-05 18:17       ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-02-05 18:19     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-05 18:19       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-02-05 18:19       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28 ` [patch 2/6] mmu_notifier: Callbacks to invalidate address ranges Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 16:20   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 16:20     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 16:20     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 18:28     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 18:28       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 18:28       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 20:30       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 20:30         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 20:30         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 21:36         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 21:36           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 21:36           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 21:53           ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 21:53             ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 21:53             ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 22:35             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 22:35               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 22:35               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 22:55               ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 22:55                 ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 22:55                 ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 23:43                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 23:43                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 23:43                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30  0:34                   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30  0:34                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30  0:34                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 19:55     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 19:55       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 19:55       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 21:17       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 21:17         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 21:35         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 21:35           ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 21:35           ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 22:02           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 22:02             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 22:02             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 22:39             ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 22:39               ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 22:39               ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30  0:00               ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30  0:00                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30  0:00                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30  0:05                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30  0:05                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30  0:05                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30  0:22                   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30  0:22                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30  0:22                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30  0:59                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30  0:59                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30  0:59                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30  8:26                       ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-01-30  8:26                         ` Peter Zijlstra
2008-01-30  0:20                 ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30  0:20                   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30  0:20                   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30  0:28                   ` Jack Steiner
2008-01-30  0:28                     ` Jack Steiner
2008-01-30  0:28                     ` Jack Steiner
2008-01-30  0:35                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30  0:35                       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30  0:35                       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 13:37                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30 13:37                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30 13:37                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30 14:43                       ` Jack Steiner
2008-01-30 14:43                         ` Jack Steiner
2008-01-30 14:43                         ` Jack Steiner
2008-01-30 19:41                         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 19:41                           ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 19:41                           ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 20:29                           ` Jack Steiner
2008-01-30 20:29                             ` Jack Steiner
2008-01-30 20:29                             ` Jack Steiner
2008-01-30 20:55                             ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 20:55                               ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 20:55                               ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 16:11                 ` Robin Holt
2008-01-30 16:11                   ` Robin Holt
2008-01-30 16:11                   ` Robin Holt
2008-01-30 17:04                   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30 17:04                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30 17:04                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30 17:30                     ` Robin Holt
2008-01-30 17:30                       ` Robin Holt
2008-01-30 17:30                       ` Robin Holt
2008-01-30 18:25                       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30 18:25                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30 18:25                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30 19:50                         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 19:50                           ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 19:50                           ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 22:18                           ` Robin Holt
2008-01-30 22:18                             ` Robin Holt
2008-01-30 22:18                             ` Robin Holt
2008-01-30 23:52                           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30 23:52                             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-31  0:01                             ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  0:01                               ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  0:01                               ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  0:34                               ` Andrea Arcangeli [this message]
2008-01-31  0:34                                 ` [kvm-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-31  0:34                                 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-31  1:46                                 ` [kvm-devel] " Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  1:46                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  1:46                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  2:34                                   ` [kvm-devel] " Robin Holt
2008-01-31  2:34                                     ` Robin Holt
2008-01-31  2:34                                     ` Robin Holt
2008-01-31  2:37                                     ` [kvm-devel] " Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  2:37                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  2:37                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  2:56                                     ` [kvm-devel] mmu_notifier: invalidate_range_start with lock=1 Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  2:56                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  2:56                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31 10:52                                   ` [kvm-devel] [patch 2/6] mmu_notifier: Callbacks to invalidate address ranges Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-31 10:52                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-31 10:52                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-31  2:08                                 ` [kvm-devel] " Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  2:08                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  2:08                                   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  2:42                                   ` [kvm-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-31  2:42                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-31  2:42                                     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-31  2:51                                     ` [kvm-devel] " Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  2:51                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31  2:51                                       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-31 13:39                                       ` [kvm-devel] " Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-31 13:39                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-31 13:39                                         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-30 19:35                   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 19:35                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-30 19:35                     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28 ` [patch 3/6] mmu_notifier: invalidate_page callbacks for subsystems with rmap Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 16:28   ` Robin Holt
2008-01-29 16:28     ` Robin Holt
2008-01-28 20:28 ` [patch 4/6] MMU notifier: invalidate_page callbacks using Linux rmaps Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 14:03   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 14:03     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 14:03     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 14:24     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 14:24       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 14:24       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2008-01-29 19:51       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 19:51         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 19:51         ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28 ` [patch 5/6] mmu_notifier: Callbacks for xip_filemap.c Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28 ` [patch 6/6] mmu_notifier: Add invalidate_all() Christoph Lameter
2008-01-28 20:28   ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 16:31   ` Robin Holt
2008-01-29 16:31     ` Robin Holt
2008-01-29 20:02     ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 20:02       ` Christoph Lameter
2008-01-29 20:02       ` Christoph Lameter

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