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From: Oliver Neukum <oliver@neukum.org>
To: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@sisk.pl>,
	ACPI Devel Maling List <linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	Alexey Starikovskiy <astarikovskiy@suse.de>,
	Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [linux-pm] [RFC][PATCH] PM: Introduce new top level suspend	and hibernation callbacks (rev. 2)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:24:17 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200803261524.18300.oliver@neukum.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0803261003540.4755-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org>

Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 15:10:01 schrieb Alan Stern:
> > > IMO you must always keep the ordering invariant. If a parent returns an error
> > > the PM core must not wake its children.
> 
> Don't think of it that way.  The PM core doesn't wake anything.  It
> merely notifies drivers that the system sleep is ending, so that the
> drivers can wake their devices.  It's up to the driver to detect
> whether the parent failed to resume, in which case the driver should
> take appropriate action.

How do you propose that every driver should check the power state
of its parent? Without locking the parent?

> The situation is no different from what happens when the user tries to 
> access a mounted USB disk drive after the USB cable has been unplugged.  
> The drivers take care of everything.

That completely throws away the reason to have a PM core. We've made
a guarantee to drivers that they wil not be woken unless their parents are
awake. In fact the semantics of the callbacks are defined in a way that
adding devices to a parent can be enabled. You cannot add children to a
dead parent. It's the very reason for this rewrite.

	Regards
		Oliver
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Oliver Neukum <oliver@neukum.org>
To: Alan Stern <stern@rowland.harvard.edu>
Cc: "Rafael J. Wysocki" <rjw@sisk.pl>,
	ACPI Devel Maling List <linux-acpi@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-pm@lists.linux-foundation.org,
	Alexey Starikovskiy <astarikovskiy@suse.de>,
	Johannes Berg <johannes@sipsolutions.net>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [linux-pm] [RFC][PATCH] PM: Introduce new top level suspend	and hibernation callbacks (rev. 2)
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 15:24:17 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <200803261524.18300.oliver@neukum.org> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44L0.0803261003540.4755-100000@iolanthe.rowland.org>

Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 15:10:01 schrieb Alan Stern:
> > > IMO you must always keep the ordering invariant. If a parent returns an error
> > > the PM core must not wake its children.
> 
> Don't think of it that way.  The PM core doesn't wake anything.  It
> merely notifies drivers that the system sleep is ending, so that the
> drivers can wake their devices.  It's up to the driver to detect
> whether the parent failed to resume, in which case the driver should
> take appropriate action.

How do you propose that every driver should check the power state
of its parent? Without locking the parent?

> The situation is no different from what happens when the user tries to 
> access a mounted USB disk drive after the USB cable has been unplugged.  
> The drivers take care of everything.

That completely throws away the reason to have a PM core. We've made
a guarantee to drivers that they wil not be woken unless their parents are
awake. In fact the semantics of the callbacks are defined in a way that
adding devices to a parent can be enabled. You cannot add children to a
dead parent. It's the very reason for this rewrite.

	Regards
		Oliver

  reply	other threads:[~2008-03-26 14:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 74+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-03-21  0:01 [RFC][PATCH] PM: Introduce new top level suspend and hibernation callbacks (rev. 2) Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-21  0:01 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-21  0:21 ` [linux-pm] " Johannes Berg
2008-03-21  0:26   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-21  0:26   ` [linux-pm] " Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-25  9:49   ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 13:06     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-25 13:15       ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 13:15         ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 14:19         ` Alan Stern
2008-03-25 14:19           ` Alan Stern
2008-03-25 14:24           ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 14:24           ` [linux-pm] " Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 14:24             ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 14:33             ` Alan Stern
2008-03-25 14:33             ` [linux-pm] " Alan Stern
2008-03-25 14:33               ` Alan Stern
2008-03-25 19:48               ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 19:48                 ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 20:41                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-25 20:41                 ` [linux-pm] " Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-25 20:41                   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-25 20:49                   ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 20:49                     ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 20:56                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-25 20:56                       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-26 14:10                       ` Alan Stern
2008-03-26 14:10                       ` [linux-pm] " Alan Stern
2008-03-26 14:10                         ` Alan Stern
2008-03-26 14:24                         ` Oliver Neukum [this message]
2008-03-26 14:24                           ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-26 14:40                           ` Alan Stern
2008-03-26 14:40                             ` Alan Stern
2008-03-26 15:42                             ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-26 15:42                               ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-26 16:36                               ` Alan Stern
2008-03-26 16:36                                 ` Alan Stern
2008-03-26 20:46                                 ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-26 20:46                                 ` [linux-pm] " Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-27  2:48                                   ` Alan Stern
2008-03-27  2:48                                   ` [linux-pm] " Alan Stern
2008-03-27  2:48                                     ` Alan Stern
2008-03-26 16:36                               ` Alan Stern
2008-03-26 15:42                             ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-26 14:40                           ` Alan Stern
2008-03-26 14:24                         ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 20:56                     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-25 20:49                   ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 19:48               ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 14:19         ` Alan Stern
2008-03-25 13:15       ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-25 13:06     ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-25  9:49   ` Oliver Neukum
2008-03-21  0:21 ` Johannes Berg
2008-03-21  1:21 ` Alan Stern
2008-03-21  2:14   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-21  2:53     ` Alan Stern
2008-03-21  2:53     ` Alan Stern
2008-03-22 22:17       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-22 23:28         ` Alan Stern
2008-03-22 23:28         ` Alan Stern
2008-03-22 23:44           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-22 23:44           ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-23  2:07             ` Alan Stern
2008-03-23 18:41               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-23 18:41               ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-23  2:07             ` Alan Stern
2008-03-22 22:17       ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-21  2:14   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-21  1:21 ` Alan Stern
2008-03-21  8:15 ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-03-21  8:15 ` Sam Ravnborg
2008-03-23 21:16   ` Rafael J. Wysocki
2008-03-23 21:16   ` Rafael J. Wysocki

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