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From: Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
Cc: Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	"Dike, Jeffrey G" <jeffrey.g.dike@intel.com>,
	"Yu, Wilfred" <wilfred.yu@intel.com>,
	"Kleen, Andi" <andi.kleen@intel.com>,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh.dickins@tiscali.co.uk>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Christoph Lameter <cl@linux-foundation.org>,
	KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] respect the referenced bit of KVM guest pages?
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:28:22 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090816032822.GB6888@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4A7AD79E.4020604@redhat.com>

On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 09:16:14PM +0800, Rik van Riel wrote:
> Wu Fengguang wrote:
> 
> > I guess both schemes have unacceptable flaws.
> > 
> > For JVM/BIGMEM workload, most pages would be found referenced _all the time_.
> > So the KEEP_MOST scheme could increase reclaim overheads by N=250 times;
> > while the DROP_CONTINUOUS scheme is effectively zero cost.
> 
> The higher overhead may not be an issue on smaller systems,
> or inside smaller cgroups inside large systems, when doing
> cgroup reclaim.

Right.

> > However, the DROP_CONTINUOUS scheme does bring more _indeterminacy_.
> > It can behave vastly different on single active task and multi ones.
> > It is short sighted and can be cheated by bursty activities.
> 
> The split LRU VM tries to avoid the bursty page aging as
> much as possible, by doing background deactivating of
> anonymous pages whenever we reclaim page cache pages and
> the number of anonymous pages in the zone (or cgroup) is
> low.

Right, but I meant busty page allocations and accesses on them, which
can make a large continuous segment of referenced pages in LRU list,
say 50MB.  They may or may not be valuable as a whole, however a local
algorithm may keep the first 4MB and drop the remaining 46MB.

Thanks,
Fengguang

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Wu Fengguang <fengguang.wu@intel.com>
To: Rik van Riel <riel@redhat.com>
Cc: Avi Kivity <avi@redhat.com>,
	Andrea Arcangeli <aarcange@redhat.com>,
	"Dike, Jeffrey G" <jeffrey.g.dike@intel.com>,
	"Yu, Wilfred" <wilfred.yu@intel.com>,
	"Kleen, Andi" <andi.kleen@intel.com>,
	Hugh Dickins <hugh.dickins@tiscali.co.uk>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Christoph Lameter <cl@linux-foundation.org>,
	KOSAKI Motohiro <kosaki.motohiro@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Mel Gorman <mel@csn.ul.ie>, LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	linux-mm <linux-mm@kvack.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC] respect the referenced bit of KVM guest pages?
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 2009 11:28:22 +0800	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20090816032822.GB6888@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <4A7AD79E.4020604@redhat.com>

On Thu, Aug 06, 2009 at 09:16:14PM +0800, Rik van Riel wrote:
> Wu Fengguang wrote:
> 
> > I guess both schemes have unacceptable flaws.
> > 
> > For JVM/BIGMEM workload, most pages would be found referenced _all the time_.
> > So the KEEP_MOST scheme could increase reclaim overheads by N=250 times;
> > while the DROP_CONTINUOUS scheme is effectively zero cost.
> 
> The higher overhead may not be an issue on smaller systems,
> or inside smaller cgroups inside large systems, when doing
> cgroup reclaim.

Right.

> > However, the DROP_CONTINUOUS scheme does bring more _indeterminacy_.
> > It can behave vastly different on single active task and multi ones.
> > It is short sighted and can be cheated by bursty activities.
> 
> The split LRU VM tries to avoid the bursty page aging as
> much as possible, by doing background deactivating of
> anonymous pages whenever we reclaim page cache pages and
> the number of anonymous pages in the zone (or cgroup) is
> low.

Right, but I meant busty page allocations and accesses on them, which
can make a large continuous segment of referenced pages in LRU list,
say 50MB.  They may or may not be valuable as a whole, however a local
algorithm may keep the first 4MB and drop the remaining 46MB.

Thanks,
Fengguang

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  reply	other threads:[~2009-08-16  3:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 243+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2009-08-05  2:40 [RFC] respect the referenced bit of KVM guest pages? Wu Fengguang
2009-08-05  2:40 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-05  4:15 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-05  4:15   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-05  4:41   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-05  4:41     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-05  7:58 ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-05  7:58   ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-05  8:17   ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-05  8:17     ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-05 14:33     ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 14:33       ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 15:37       ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-05 15:37         ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-05 14:15   ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 14:15     ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 15:12     ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-05 15:12       ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-05 15:15       ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 15:15         ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 15:25         ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-05 15:25           ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-05 16:35           ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-05 16:35             ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-05 16:31     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-05 16:31       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-05 17:25       ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 17:25         ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 15:45   ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-05 15:45     ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-05 16:05   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-05 16:05     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-05 16:12     ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-05 16:12       ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-05 16:19       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-05 16:19         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-05 15:58 ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-05 15:58   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-05 17:20   ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 17:20     ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 17:42   ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 17:42     ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-06 10:15     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-06 10:15       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-06 10:08   ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-06 10:08     ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-06 10:18     ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06 10:18       ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06 10:20       ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-06 10:20         ` Andrea Arcangeli
2009-08-06 10:59         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-06 10:59           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-06 11:44           ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06 11:44             ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06 13:06             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-06 13:06               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-06 13:16               ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-06 13:16                 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-16  3:28                 ` Wu Fengguang [this message]
2009-08-16  3:28                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16  3:56                   ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-16  3:56                     ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-16  4:43                     ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-16  4:43                       ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-16  4:55                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16  4:55                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16  5:59                       ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-16  5:59                         ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-17 19:47                       ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-17 19:47                         ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-21 18:24                         ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-21 18:24                           ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-31 19:43                           ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-31 19:43                             ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-31 19:52                             ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-31 19:52                               ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-31 20:06                               ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-31 20:06                                 ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-31 20:09                                 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-31 20:09                                   ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-31 20:11                                   ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-31 20:11                                     ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-31 20:42                                     ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-31 20:42                                       ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-06 13:46               ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06 13:46                 ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06 21:09               ` Jeff Dike
2009-08-06 21:09                 ` Jeff Dike
2009-08-16  3:18                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16  3:18                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16  3:53                   ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-16  3:53                     ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-16  5:15                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16  5:15                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16 11:29                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16 11:29                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-17 14:33                         ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-17 14:33                           ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-18  2:34                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-18  2:34                             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-18  4:17                             ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-18  4:17                               ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-18  9:31                               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-18  9:31                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-18  9:52                                 ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-18  9:52                                   ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-18 10:00                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-18 10:00                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-18 11:00                                     ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-18 11:00                                       ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-18 11:11                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-18 11:11                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-18 14:03                                         ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-18 14:03                                           ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-18 16:27                                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-18 16:27                                           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-18 15:57                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-18 15:57                           ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-19 12:01                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-19 12:01                             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-19 12:05                             ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-19 12:05                               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-19 12:10                               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-19 12:10                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-19 12:25                                 ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-19 12:25                                   ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-19 13:19                                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-19 13:19                                     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-19 13:28                                     ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-19 13:28                                       ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-21 11:17                                       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-21 11:17                                         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-19 13:24                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-19 13:24                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-19 13:38                                     ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-19 13:38                                       ` Minchan Kim
2009-08-19 14:00                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-19 14:00                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-06 13:13             ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-06 13:13               ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-06 13:49               ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06 13:49                 ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-07  3:11               ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-07  3:11                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-07  7:54                 ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-07  7:54                   ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-07  8:24                   ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-08-07  8:24                     ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-08-06 13:11           ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-06 13:11             ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-06 13:08     ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-06 13:08       ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-07  3:17       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-07  3:17         ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-12  7:48         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-12 14:31           ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-12 14:31             ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-13  1:03             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-13  1:03               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-13 15:46               ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-13 15:46                 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-13 16:12                 ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-13 16:12                   ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-13 16:26                   ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-13 16:26                     ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-13 19:12                     ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-13 19:12                       ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-13 21:16                       ` Johannes Weiner
2009-08-13 21:16                         ` Johannes Weiner
2009-08-14  7:16                         ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-14  7:16                           ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-14  9:10                           ` Johannes Weiner
2009-08-14  9:10                             ` Johannes Weiner
2009-08-14  9:51                             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-14  9:51                               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-14 13:19                               ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-14 13:19                                 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-15  5:45                                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-15  5:45                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16  5:09                                   ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-16  5:09                                     ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-16  5:41                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16  5:41                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16  5:50                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-16  5:50                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-18 15:57                                     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-18 15:57                                       ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-17 18:04                                   ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-17 18:04                                     ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-18  2:26                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-18  2:26                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-09-02 19:30                                       ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-09-02 19:30                                         ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-09-03  2:04                                         ` Wu Fengguang
2009-09-03  2:04                                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-09-04 20:06                                           ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-09-04 20:06                                             ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-09-04 20:57                                             ` Rik van Riel
2009-09-04 20:57                                               ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-18 15:57                                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-18 15:57                                     ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-19 12:08                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-19 12:08                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-19 13:40                                     ` [RFC] memcg: move definitions to .h and inline some functions Wu Fengguang
2009-08-19 13:40                                       ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-19 14:18                                       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-08-19 14:18                                         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-08-19 14:27                                         ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-19 14:27                                           ` Balbir Singh
2009-08-20  1:34                                           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-20  1:34                                             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-14 21:42                               ` [RFC] respect the referenced bit of KVM guest pages? Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-14 21:42                                 ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-14 22:37                                 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-14 22:37                                   ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-15  5:32                                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-15  5:32                                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-09-13 16:23                                 ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-09-13 16:23                                   ` KOSAKI Motohiro
2009-08-05 17:53 ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 17:53   ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 19:00   ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-05 19:00     ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-05 19:07     ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 19:07       ` Rik van Riel
2009-08-05 19:18       ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-05 19:18         ` Dike, Jeffrey G
2009-08-06  9:22         ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06  9:22           ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06  9:25           ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-06  9:25             ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-06  9:35             ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06  9:35               ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06  9:35               ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-06  9:35                 ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-06  9:59                 ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06  9:59                   ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06  9:59                   ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-06  9:59                     ` Wu Fengguang
2009-08-06 10:14                     ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-06 10:14                       ` Avi Kivity
2009-08-07  1:25                       ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki
2009-08-07  1:25                         ` KAMEZAWA Hiroyuki

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