beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Robert P. J. Day]

  given that (on my fedora 12 system, anyway), the gnome-games package
has been unbuildable for weeks now, i finally threw in the towel,
removed the reference to it from the beagleboard task, and can now
build beagleboard-demo-image.

  that package was the final obstacle to getting a BB-demo-image
build.  other packages that were failing -- e2fsprogs, mplayer --
have recently been fixed, leaving gnome-games as the sole remaining
cause of build grief.

  a suggestion -- until the issue with gnome-games is resolved, why
not just remove its inclusion from the bb-demo-image task?  i'm being
quite serious -- it's obviously not a critical package, and if it's
the only thing keeping people from building and testing the OE dev
branch for the beagleboard, take it out so folks can get back to
testing.

  it seems counter-productive to allow a single games package to put
the brakes on an entire build.

rday
--

========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day                               Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

            Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry.

Web page:                                          http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter:                                       http://twitter.com/rpjday
========================================================================

Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Martin Jansa]

On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 11:47:06AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>   it seems counter-productive to allow a single games package to put
> the brakes on an entire build.

Maybe you want to build with -k?

If there is some build problem in games package, then it should be
fixed, not silenced by whole task removal.

Regards,

-- 
uin:136542059                jid:Martin.Jansa@gmail.com
Jansa Martin                 sip:jamasip@voip.wengo.fr 
JaMa                         

Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010, Martin Jansa wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 11:47:06AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> >   it seems counter-productive to allow a single games package to put
> > the brakes on an entire build.
>
> Maybe you want to build with -k?
>
> If there is some build problem in games package, then it should be
> fixed, not silenced by whole task removal.

  i've reported the breakage related to gnome-games before:

http://www.mail-archive.com/openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org/msg02124.html

note in that posting that philip balister appears to confirm the
problem, and there's a reference to someone else who is working with
an update that might solve the problem.

  that was a *month* ago, and things are still broken.  if there's a
fix, then it should be applied.  if there isn't, then the reference to
gnome-games should be removed.  allowing a single broken package
that's been broken for over a month to be the single obstacle to a
successful build would seem to be entirely counter-productive.

rday
--

========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day                               Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

            Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry.

Web page:                                          http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter:                                       http://twitter.com/rpjday
========================================================================

Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Paul Menzel]

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Am Sonntag, den 17.01.2010, 12:06 -0500 schrieb Robert P. J. Day:
> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010, Martin Jansa wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 17, 2010 at 11:47:06AM -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > >   it seems counter-productive to allow a single games package to put
> > > the brakes on an entire build.
> >
> > Maybe you want to build with -k?
> >
> > If there is some build problem in games package, then it should be
> > fixed, not silenced by whole task removal.
> 
>   i've reported the breakage related to gnome-games before:
> 
> http://www.mail-archive.com/openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org/msg02124.html
> 
> note in that posting that philip balister appears to confirm the
> problem, and there's a reference to someone else who is working with
> an update that might solve the problem.
> 
>   that was a *month* ago, and things are still broken.  if there's a
> fix, then it should be applied.  if there isn't, then the reference to
> gnome-games should be removed.  allowing a single broken package
> that's been broken for over a month to be the single obstacle to a
> successful build would seem to be entirely counter-productive.

As written, I think you should enter this in the bugtracker where it
will not get forgotten. You can also publish your diff to make it easier
for others.

And lastly people can always use the online rootfs builder [1]. 


[1] http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/online-rootfs-builder-moved-ångström-domain

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Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Paul Menzel]

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Am Sonntag, den 17.01.2010, 11:47 -0500 schrieb Robert P. J. Day:

[…]

>   a suggestion -- until the issue with gnome-games is resolved, why
> not just remove its inclusion from the bb-demo-image task?  i'm being
> quite serious -- it's obviously not a critical package, and if it's
> the only thing keeping people from building and testing the OE dev
> branch for the beagleboard, take it out so folks can get back to
> testing.

[…]

In my opinion that would not be the right way to tackle this issue.

Just enter a new bug report in OE’s bugtracker [1], attach a diff people
can apply *locally* to remove the dependency on `gnome-games`, reference
the report in a reply to this thread and close the report when the issue
is fixed.


Thanks,

Paul


[1] http://bugs.openembedded.net/

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Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Koen Kooi]

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On 17-01-10 17:47, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> 
>   given that (on my fedora 12 system, anyway), the gnome-games package
> has been unbuildable for weeks now, i finally threw in the towel,
> removed the reference to it from the beagleboard task, and can now
> build beagleboard-demo-image.
> 
>   that package was the final obstacle to getting a BB-demo-image
> build.  other packages that were failing -- e2fsprogs, mplayer --
> have recently been fixed, leaving gnome-games as the sole remaining
> cause of build grief.
> 
>   a suggestion -- until the issue with gnome-games is resolved, why
> not just remove its inclusion from the bb-demo-image task?  i'm being
> quite serious -- it's obviously not a critical package, and if it's
> the only thing keeping people from building and testing the OE dev
> branch for the beagleboard, take it out so folks can get back to
> testing.
> 
>   it seems counter-productive to allow a single games package to put
> the brakes on an entire build.

And I have yet to reproduce a single build failure with that recipe, and
I build beagleboard-demo-image daily.

It seems counter-productive remove everything that might fail for a
handfull of people. I remember busybox triggering an OOM on Philip's
build machine not too long ago :)

regards,

Koen
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Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[John Willis]

> >   that package was the final obstacle to getting a BB-demo-image
> > build.  other packages that were failing -- e2fsprogs, mplayer --
> > have recently been fixed, leaving gnome-games as the sole remaining
> > cause of build grief.
> >
> >   a suggestion -- until the issue with gnome-games is resolved, why
> > not just remove its inclusion from the bb-demo-image task?  i'm being
> > quite serious -- it's obviously not a critical package, and if it's
> > the only thing keeping people from building and testing the OE dev
> > branch for the beagleboard, take it out so folks can get back to
> > testing.

Just to chip in on this,

I build 3 or 4 images daily that feature gnome-games (inc. bb-demo) on
several build hosts (ok, none are Fedora based, mostly DEB based setups). 

Can't say I have had any build issues with gnome-games on any of those
setups (gnome-system-tools is my nemesis today and that's no in bb-demo
;-)).

I personally don't favour taking packages out of an image if there are build
issues on a small subset of systems. I think Phil (or someone else) suggest
you consider contributing your build logs to OESTATS/TinderBox
(http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/How_do_I_send_automatic_success_and_
failure_reports) at least with that setup you leave a reference the failing
logs in bug reports/mails so people can have a look into all the gory
details :).

Cheers,

John

Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010, John Willis wrote:

> I personally don't favour taking packages out of an image if there
> are build issues on a small subset of systems. I think Phil (or
> someone else) suggest you consider contributing your build logs to
> OESTATS/TinderBox
> (http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/How_do_I_send_automatic_success_and_
> failure_reports) at least with that setup you leave a reference the
> failing logs in bug reports/mails so people can have a look into all
> the gory details :).

  in fact, on friday, i posted to this list that gnome-games was
broken under my environment, and also left a link to the full log file
contents here:

  http://pastebin.com/mcaa647b

so anyone was free to see that.  and so far (unless i'm mistaken), in
the midst of all the feedback, the one thing i haven't read is anyone
saying, "hmmmm, you're right, there seems to be a problem."

  for over a month now, i've reported this, i've described my build
environment in detail, and i've made the contents of the build log
file publicly available.  at this point, i've given up on this package
and removed it from my bb-demo-image build because i just don't care
about it anymore.  if it ever gets fixed, by all means, let me know.
but please stop whining that i just haven't jumped through enough
hoops to suit some people.

rday
--


========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day                               Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

            Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry.

Web page:                                          http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter:                                       http://twitter.com/rpjday
========================================================================

Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Paul Menzel]

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Am Sonntag, den 17.01.2010, 15:20 -0500 schrieb Robert P. J. Day:
> On Sun, 17 Jan 2010, John Willis wrote:
> 
> > I personally don't favour taking packages out of an image if there
> > are build issues on a small subset of systems. I think Phil (or
> > someone else) suggest you consider contributing your build logs to
> > OESTATS/TinderBox
> > (http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/How_do_I_send_automatic_success_and_
> > failure_reports) at least with that setup you leave a reference the
> > failing logs in bug reports/mails so people can have a look into all
> > the gory details :).
> 
>   in fact, on friday, i posted to this list that gnome-games was
> broken under my environment, and also left a link to the full log file
> contents here:
> 
>   http://pastebin.com/mcaa647b
> 
> so anyone was free to see that.  and so far (unless i'm mistaken), in
> the midst of all the feedback, the one thing i haven't read is anyone
> saying, "hmmmm, you're right, there seems to be a problem."

As far as I know, nobody wrote that you made all this up.

>   for over a month now, i've reported this, i've described my build
> environment in detail, and i've made the contents of the build log
> file publicly available.  at this point, i've given up on this package
> and removed it from my bb-demo-image build because i just don't care
> about it anymore.  if it ever gets fixed, by all means, let me know.
> but please stop whining that i just haven't jumped through enough
> hoops to suit some people.

Sorry Robert, I disagree. Of course I also sent my logs to the list and
I was lucky that someone helped me. But unfortunately it looks like we
are not knowledgeable/smart enough to be able to fix things by
ourselves. No single person on this list owes us something and has to
help us, since they do it out of kindness/free will to help us. We can
always contact a business and pay them get our stuff fixed. Then we can
demand that these payed people fix the problem.

If we do not spent any money, we can only try to ease the live of the
developers as much as possible in using their tools or gather and
condense/edit the available information in such a way, that the
developers do not waste their time doing trivial things.

The developers did not set up a bugtracker without a reason and because
we depend on them we should do as they say. If we want to or not.


Thanks,

Paul

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Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010, Koen Kooi wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 17-01-10 17:47, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> >
> >   given that (on my fedora 12 system, anyway), the gnome-games
> > package has been unbuildable for weeks now, i finally threw in the
> > towel, removed the reference to it from the beagleboard task, and
> > can now build beagleboard-demo-image.
> >
> >   that package was the final obstacle to getting a BB-demo-image
> > build.  other packages that were failing -- e2fsprogs, mplayer --
> > have recently been fixed, leaving gnome-games as the sole
> > remaining cause of build grief.
> >
> >   a suggestion -- until the issue with gnome-games is resolved,
> > why not just remove its inclusion from the bb-demo-image task?
> > i'm being quite serious -- it's obviously not a critical package,
> > and if it's the only thing keeping people from building and
> > testing the OE dev branch for the beagleboard, take it out so
> > folks can get back to testing.
> >
> >   it seems counter-productive to allow a single games package to
> > put the brakes on an entire build.
>
> And I have yet to reproduce a single build failure with that recipe,
> and I build beagleboard-demo-image daily.

  if you're not building under fedora 12, then your lack of build
failure means squat.  when i've reported build problems here, i've
always been clear what exact environment i've been building under.
and i would like to point out that two previous package build errors
i've reported -- mplayer and e2fsprogs -- did in fact need tweaking to
get back to building under f12.  so i'm not making any of this up.

> It seems counter-productive remove everything that might fail for a
> handfull of people. I remember busybox triggering an OOM on Philip's
> build machine not too long ago :)

  please don't misrepresent me, koen.  i'm not suggesting removing
"everything that might fail for a handfull of people."  i'm suggesting
that since that one package -- gnome-games -- has been unbuildable for
well over a month on a fedora 12 system, and since others have
acknowledged that build error:

http://www.mail-archive.com/openembedded-devel@lists.openembedded.org/msg02124.html

and since that package *remains* broken, either someone should finally
fix it, or it should be removed from the build.  pick one.

  keep in mind, we're talking about the development branch here, which
numerous people love to point out is bound to have occasional
breakage.  no one disputes that fact of life.  but the whole *point*
of a dev branch is to allow users to live on the edge, and test that
branch, and supply feedback.  if one can't even *build* the dev
branch, you are wasting all that potential user-contributed testing.

  as it stands now, anyone who runs fedora 12 has been unable to build
a BB-demo-image for weeks now, and you've lost all that potential
testing.  and no, i *don't* care to hear from people who are happy to
tell me that it builds just fine on their debian or ubuntu or gentoo
system.  that's not relevant.  i've reported this breakage before and
nothing has been done.  at some point, in order to make the
development branch worth wasting any time on, either the breakage
should be fixed or the offending package *must* be removed to allow
testers to resume testing so you can start getting useful feedback
again.  it really is as simple as that.

rday
--

========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day                               Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

            Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry.

Web page:                                          http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter:                                       http://twitter.com/rpjday
========================================================================

Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Rolf Leggewie]

Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>   as it stands now, anyone who runs fedora 12 has been unable to build
> a BB-demo-image for weeks now, and you've lost all that potential
> testing.  and no, i *don't* care to hear from people who are happy to
> tell me that it builds just fine on their debian or ubuntu or gentoo

If I were you, I would have done two things in that situation

1) investigate why Fedora fails and possibly shoot fedora a bug ticket
2) switch distro ;-)  (virtulbox exists if everything else fails)

But again, this being your nature apparently, you love that
head-against-wall feeling.

I mean, seriously, what do you expect?  Do you even have an idea how
long other people wait to get their stuff fixed?

Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Rolf Leggewie]

John Willis wrote:
> I think Phil (or someone else) suggest
> you consider contributing your build logs to OESTATS/TinderBox
> (http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/How_do_I_send_automatic_success_and_
> failure_reports) at least with that setup you leave a reference the failing
> logs in bug reports/mails so people can have a look into all the gory
> details :).

But this is Robert who seems to be allergic to taking sensible
suggestions but prefers head-through-the-wall approach.

- doesn't use git -log
- doesn't use tinderbox
- doesn't use the bug tracker

Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Sun, 17 Jan 2010, Rolf Leggewie wrote:

> John Willis wrote:
> > I think Phil (or someone else) suggest
> > you consider contributing your build logs to OESTATS/TinderBox
> > (http://wiki.openembedded.net/index.php/How_do_I_send_automatic_success_and_
> > failure_reports) at least with that setup you leave a reference the failing
> > logs in bug reports/mails so people can have a look into all the gory
> > details :).
>
> But this is Robert who seems to be allergic to taking sensible
> suggestions but prefers head-through-the-wall approach.
>
> - doesn't use git -log
> - doesn't use tinderbox
> - doesn't use the bug tracker

  since you apparently weren't paying attention, let me refresh your
memory that i pointed out the breakage problem with gnome-games a
month ago, at which point the breakage was *confirmed* by someone
else, and there was a suggestion that a newer version was already
being queued to deal with it.  at that point, i think i'm within my
rights to assume that a fix is in the works and i just have to be
patient.

  a month later, nothing's happened.

rday
--


========================================================================
Robert P. J. Day                               Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

            Linux Consulting, Training and Kernel Pedantry.

Web page:                                          http://crashcourse.ca
Twitter:                                       http://twitter.com/rpjday
========================================================================

Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Rolf Leggewie]

Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>   since you apparently weren't paying attention

alright.  Bye bye, then.

I never thought I'd need to use the killfile on this list...

Re: beagleboard-demo-image, and the evil that is "gnome-games"

[Paul Menzel]

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Am Sonntag, den 17.01.2010, 21:15 +0100 schrieb Rolf Leggewie:
> Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> >   since you apparently weren't paying attention
> 
> alright.  Bye bye, then.
> 
> I never thought I'd need to use the killfile on this list...

Well I guess your replies to Robert were not the nicest either. I hope,
everyone will calm down. Especially on such a “stupid” topic.


Thanks,

Paul

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