All of lore.kernel.org
 help / color / mirror / Atom feed
From: Aurelien Jarno <aurelien@aurel32.net>
To: Markus Armbruster <armbru@redhat.com>
Cc: "Daniel P. Berrange" <berrange@redhat.com>,
	kvm <kvm@vger.kernel.org>, "Scott Moser" <smoser@ubuntu.com>,
	"Jan Kiszka" <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>,
	"Marcelo Tosatti" <mtosatti@redhat.com>,
	"Michael Tokarev" <mjt@tls.msk.ru>,
	qemu-devel <qemu-devel@nongnu.org>,
	"Bruce Rogers" <brogers@suse.com>, "Avi Kivity" <avi@redhat.com>,
	"Anthony Liguori" <anthony@codemonkey.ws>,
	"Cole Robinson" <crobinso@redhat.com>,
	"Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	"Andreas Färber" <afaerber@suse.de>
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH] kvm: Set default accelerator to "kvm" if the host supports it
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 10:15:02 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20121002081502.GI4623@ohm.aurel32.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87zk4571vf.fsf@blackfin.pond.sub.org>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 09:46:12AM +0200, Markus Armbruster wrote:
> "Daniel P. Berrange" <berrange@redhat.com> writes:
> 
> > On Mon, Oct 01, 2012 at 06:43:00PM +0200, Andreas Färber wrote:
> >> Hello Jan,
> >> 
> >> Am 01.10.2012 16:34, schrieb Jan Kiszka:
> >> > If we built a target for a host that supports KVM in principle, set the
> >> > default accelerator to KVM as well. This also means the start of QEMU
> >> > will fail to start if KVM support turns out to be unavailable at
> >> > runtime.
> >> 
> >> From a distro point of view this of course means that we will build
> >> against KVM and that the new KVM default will start to fail for users on
> >> very old hardware. Can't we do a runtime check to select the default?
> >
> > NB, this is *not* only about old hardware. There are plenty of users who
> > use QEMU inside VMs. One very common usage I know of is image building
> > tools which are run inside Amazon VMs, using libguestfs & QEMU.
> >
> > IMHO, default to KVM, fallback to TCG is the most friendly default
> > behaviour.
> 
> Friendly perhaps, generating an infinite series of questions "why is my
> guest slow as molasses?" certainly.
> 
> And for each instance of the question, there's an unknown number of
> users who give QEMU a quick try, screw up KVM unknowingly, observe the
> glacial speed, and conclude it's crap.
> 

That's why it should not fallback silently to TCG, but warn the user
about that.

On the other hand, on a machine without KVM support (which might just be
because of local policy admin policy which doesn't provide access the 
/dev/kvm, nested virtualization, etc.), if QEMU fails to start (while
previous versions were working), the user can conclude that QEMU is
crap.

-- 
Aurelien Jarno                          GPG: 1024D/F1BCDB73
aurelien@aurel32.net                 http://www.aurel32.net

WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Aurelien Jarno <aurelien@aurel32.net>
To: Markus Armbruster <armbru@redhat.com>
Cc: kvm <kvm@vger.kernel.org>, "Scott Moser" <smoser@ubuntu.com>,
	"Jan Kiszka" <jan.kiszka@siemens.com>,
	"Marcelo Tosatti" <mtosatti@redhat.com>,
	"Michael Tokarev" <mjt@tls.msk.ru>,
	qemu-devel <qemu-devel@nongnu.org>,
	"Bruce Rogers" <brogers@suse.com>, "Avi Kivity" <avi@redhat.com>,
	"Anthony Liguori" <anthony@codemonkey.ws>,
	"Cole Robinson" <crobinso@redhat.com>,
	"Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
	"Andreas Färber" <afaerber@suse.de>
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH] kvm: Set default accelerator to "kvm" if the host supports it
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2012 10:15:02 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20121002081502.GI4623@ohm.aurel32.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87zk4571vf.fsf@blackfin.pond.sub.org>

On Tue, Oct 02, 2012 at 09:46:12AM +0200, Markus Armbruster wrote:
> "Daniel P. Berrange" <berrange@redhat.com> writes:
> 
> > On Mon, Oct 01, 2012 at 06:43:00PM +0200, Andreas Färber wrote:
> >> Hello Jan,
> >> 
> >> Am 01.10.2012 16:34, schrieb Jan Kiszka:
> >> > If we built a target for a host that supports KVM in principle, set the
> >> > default accelerator to KVM as well. This also means the start of QEMU
> >> > will fail to start if KVM support turns out to be unavailable at
> >> > runtime.
> >> 
> >> From a distro point of view this of course means that we will build
> >> against KVM and that the new KVM default will start to fail for users on
> >> very old hardware. Can't we do a runtime check to select the default?
> >
> > NB, this is *not* only about old hardware. There are plenty of users who
> > use QEMU inside VMs. One very common usage I know of is image building
> > tools which are run inside Amazon VMs, using libguestfs & QEMU.
> >
> > IMHO, default to KVM, fallback to TCG is the most friendly default
> > behaviour.
> 
> Friendly perhaps, generating an infinite series of questions "why is my
> guest slow as molasses?" certainly.
> 
> And for each instance of the question, there's an unknown number of
> users who give QEMU a quick try, screw up KVM unknowingly, observe the
> glacial speed, and conclude it's crap.
> 

That's why it should not fallback silently to TCG, but warn the user
about that.

On the other hand, on a machine without KVM support (which might just be
because of local policy admin policy which doesn't provide access the 
/dev/kvm, nested virtualization, etc.), if QEMU fails to start (while
previous versions were working), the user can conclude that QEMU is
crap.

-- 
Aurelien Jarno                          GPG: 1024D/F1BCDB73
aurelien@aurel32.net                 http://www.aurel32.net

  reply	other threads:[~2012-10-02  9:41 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 97+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-09-30 19:11 qemu-kvm: remove "boot=on|off" drive parameter compatibility Marcelo Tosatti
2012-10-01  1:02 ` Amos Kong
2012-10-01  8:05 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01  9:31   ` Marcelo Tosatti
2012-10-01 10:21     ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:03       ` Marcelo Tosatti
2012-10-01 13:14         ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:19       ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 13:19         ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 13:26         ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:26           ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-03  9:55           ` Gleb Natapov
2012-10-03  9:55             ` Gleb Natapov
2012-10-03 10:06             ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-03 10:06               ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-03 10:11               ` Gleb Natapov
2012-10-03 10:11                 ` Gleb Natapov
2012-10-03 10:57             ` Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-03 10:57               ` [Qemu-devel] " Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-03 13:19               ` Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-03 13:19                 ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-03 13:27                 ` Gleb Natapov
2012-10-03 13:27                   ` [Qemu-devel] " Gleb Natapov
2012-10-04 10:48                 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-04 10:48                   ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-04 12:10                   ` Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-04 12:10                     ` [Qemu-devel] " Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-04 12:27                     ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-04 12:27                       ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-04 17:21                       ` Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-04 17:21                         ` [Qemu-devel] " Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-04 17:24                         ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-04 17:24                           ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:31         ` Marcelo Tosatti
2012-10-01 13:31           ` [Qemu-devel] " Marcelo Tosatti
2012-10-01 13:36           ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:36             ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:44             ` Michael Tokarev
2012-10-01 13:44               ` [Qemu-devel] " Michael Tokarev
2012-10-01 13:48               ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:48                 ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:38         ` Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 13:38           ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 13:46           ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:46             ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 14:04           ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 14:04             ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 14:34             ` [PATCH] kvm: Set default accelerator to "kvm" if the host supports it Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 14:34               ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 16:20               ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 16:20                 ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 16:56                 ` Aurelien Jarno
2012-10-01 16:56                   ` [Qemu-devel] " Aurelien Jarno
2012-10-03  9:02                 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-03  9:02                   ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-03 20:01                 ` Blue Swirl
2012-10-03 20:01                   ` [Qemu-devel] " Blue Swirl
2012-10-03 20:26                   ` Peter Maydell
2012-10-03 20:26                     ` Peter Maydell
2012-10-05  1:15                     ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-05  1:15                       ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-05  2:17                       ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-05  2:17                         ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2012-10-05  2:24                         ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-05  2:24                           ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-05  8:15                           ` Peter Maydell
2012-10-05  8:15                             ` Peter Maydell
2012-10-08 14:03                           ` Andreas Färber
2012-10-08 14:03                             ` Andreas Färber
2012-10-08 14:08                             ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-08 14:08                               ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-01 16:43               ` Andreas Färber
2012-10-01 16:43                 ` Andreas Färber
2012-10-01 16:47                 ` Daniel P. Berrange
2012-10-01 16:47                   ` Daniel P. Berrange
2012-10-01 19:03                   ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 19:03                     ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 19:25                     ` Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 19:25                       ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 20:07                       ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 20:07                         ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-02  7:46                   ` Markus Armbruster
2012-10-02  7:46                     ` [Qemu-devel] " Markus Armbruster
2012-10-02  8:15                     ` Aurelien Jarno [this message]
2012-10-02  8:15                       ` Aurelien Jarno
2012-10-03  6:58                     ` Michael Tokarev
2012-10-03  6:58                       ` Michael Tokarev
2012-10-03  9:05                       ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-03  9:05                         ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 14:07         ` qemu-kvm: remove "boot=on|off" drive parameter compatibility Alexander Graf
2012-10-01 14:07           ` [Qemu-devel] " Alexander Graf
2012-10-01 14:20           ` Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 14:20             ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 15:39         ` Bruce Rogers
2012-10-01 15:39           ` Bruce Rogers
2012-10-02  8:14         ` Daniel P. Berrange
2012-10-02  8:14           ` [Qemu-devel] " Daniel P. Berrange

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=20121002081502.GI4623@ohm.aurel32.net \
    --to=aurelien@aurel32.net \
    --cc=afaerber@suse.de \
    --cc=anthony@codemonkey.ws \
    --cc=armbru@redhat.com \
    --cc=avi@redhat.com \
    --cc=berrange@redhat.com \
    --cc=brogers@suse.com \
    --cc=crobinso@redhat.com \
    --cc=jan.kiszka@siemens.com \
    --cc=kvm@vger.kernel.org \
    --cc=mjt@tls.msk.ru \
    --cc=mtosatti@redhat.com \
    --cc=pbonzini@redhat.com \
    --cc=qemu-devel@nongnu.org \
    --cc=smoser@ubuntu.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
This is an external index of several public inboxes,
see mirroring instructions on how to clone and mirror
all data and code used by this external index.