From: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@web.de>
To: Michael Tokarev <mjt@tls.msk.ru>
Cc: kvm <kvm@vger.kernel.org>, "Scott Moser" <smoser@ubuntu.com>,
"Marcelo Tosatti" <mtosatti@redhat.com>,
"Markus Armbruster" <armbru@redhat.com>,
qemu-devel <qemu-devel@nongnu.org>, "Avi Kivity" <avi@redhat.com>,
"Anthony Liguori" <anthony@codemonkey.ws>,
"Cole Robinson" <crobinso@redhat.com>,
"Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
"Bruce Rogers" <brogers@suse.com>,
"Andreas Färber" <afaerber@suse.de>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] kvm: Set default accelerator to "kvm" if the host supports it
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:05:42 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <506BFFE6.8070701@web.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <506BE222.6070508@msgid.tls.msk.ru>
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On 2012-10-03 08:58, Michael Tokarev wrote:
> On 02.10.2012 11:46, Markus Armbruster wrote:
>> "Daniel P. Berrange" <berrange@redhat.com> writes:
>
>>> IMHO, default to KVM, fallback to TCG is the most friendly default
>>> behaviour.
>>
>> Friendly perhaps, generating an infinite series of questions "why is my
>> guest slow as molasses?" certainly.
>
> With a warning about "switching to slow emulation mode because .."
> printed at startup that becomes a non-issue, because there's no
> reason to ask more questions about why it is slow - it already
> said why. Yes some may try to ask what to do, which is different.
>
> Every howto nowadays mentions kvm modules and /dev/kvm device
> permissions.
>
>> And for each instance of the question, there's an unknown number of
>> users who give QEMU a quick try, screw up KVM unknowingly, observe the
>> glacial speed, and conclude it's crap.
>
> This is, again, I think, unfair. With the warning message it becomes
> more or less obvious.
>
> If you're talking about users who run it with -daemonize argument -
> this is a) stupid to do when TRYING it out, so it's not a big deal
> to lose another stupid user, and b) qemu should init everything
> first and throw all warnings and fatal errors before daemonizing,
> if this is not the case it should be fixed in the code.
>
> And if you're talking about management software (libvirt and others),
> it controls all the required privileges already and explicitly
> requests acceleration and other stuff.
>
> So the best thing to do is what Daniel, Aurelien, Paolo and others
> are suggested: accel=kvm:tcg with a warning.
Well, we had a lot of problems with such a fallback in the past, but I
think we had no proper warnings back then.
I'm not fully believing in users will always realize the console
message. I would therefore suggest to change the window title of QEMU as
well if we fail to initialize some accelerator. Something like "QEMU
without KVM" (could be "QEMU without $FAILED_ACCEL" in the end, i.e. not
just for KVM). If that makes sense for everyone, I'll hack the required
patches.
Jan
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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Jan Kiszka <jan.kiszka@web.de>
To: Michael Tokarev <mjt@tls.msk.ru>
Cc: kvm <kvm@vger.kernel.org>, "Scott Moser" <smoser@ubuntu.com>,
"Marcelo Tosatti" <mtosatti@redhat.com>,
"Markus Armbruster" <armbru@redhat.com>,
qemu-devel <qemu-devel@nongnu.org>, "Avi Kivity" <avi@redhat.com>,
"Anthony Liguori" <anthony@codemonkey.ws>,
"Cole Robinson" <crobinso@redhat.com>,
"Paolo Bonzini" <pbonzini@redhat.com>,
"Bruce Rogers" <brogers@suse.com>,
"Andreas Färber" <afaerber@suse.de>
Subject: Re: [Qemu-devel] [PATCH] kvm: Set default accelerator to "kvm" if the host supports it
Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:05:42 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <506BFFE6.8070701@web.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <506BE222.6070508@msgid.tls.msk.ru>
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2164 bytes --]
On 2012-10-03 08:58, Michael Tokarev wrote:
> On 02.10.2012 11:46, Markus Armbruster wrote:
>> "Daniel P. Berrange" <berrange@redhat.com> writes:
>
>>> IMHO, default to KVM, fallback to TCG is the most friendly default
>>> behaviour.
>>
>> Friendly perhaps, generating an infinite series of questions "why is my
>> guest slow as molasses?" certainly.
>
> With a warning about "switching to slow emulation mode because .."
> printed at startup that becomes a non-issue, because there's no
> reason to ask more questions about why it is slow - it already
> said why. Yes some may try to ask what to do, which is different.
>
> Every howto nowadays mentions kvm modules and /dev/kvm device
> permissions.
>
>> And for each instance of the question, there's an unknown number of
>> users who give QEMU a quick try, screw up KVM unknowingly, observe the
>> glacial speed, and conclude it's crap.
>
> This is, again, I think, unfair. With the warning message it becomes
> more or less obvious.
>
> If you're talking about users who run it with -daemonize argument -
> this is a) stupid to do when TRYING it out, so it's not a big deal
> to lose another stupid user, and b) qemu should init everything
> first and throw all warnings and fatal errors before daemonizing,
> if this is not the case it should be fixed in the code.
>
> And if you're talking about management software (libvirt and others),
> it controls all the required privileges already and explicitly
> requests acceleration and other stuff.
>
> So the best thing to do is what Daniel, Aurelien, Paolo and others
> are suggested: accel=kvm:tcg with a warning.
Well, we had a lot of problems with such a fallback in the past, but I
think we had no proper warnings back then.
I'm not fully believing in users will always realize the console
message. I would therefore suggest to change the window title of QEMU as
well if we fail to initialize some accelerator. Something like "QEMU
without KVM" (could be "QEMU without $FAILED_ACCEL" in the end, i.e. not
just for KVM). If that makes sense for everyone, I'll hack the required
patches.
Jan
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2012-10-03 9:05 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 97+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2012-09-30 19:11 qemu-kvm: remove "boot=on|off" drive parameter compatibility Marcelo Tosatti
2012-10-01 1:02 ` Amos Kong
2012-10-01 8:05 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 9:31 ` Marcelo Tosatti
2012-10-01 10:21 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:03 ` Marcelo Tosatti
2012-10-01 13:14 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:19 ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 13:19 ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 13:26 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:26 ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-03 9:55 ` Gleb Natapov
2012-10-03 9:55 ` Gleb Natapov
2012-10-03 10:06 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-03 10:06 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-03 10:11 ` Gleb Natapov
2012-10-03 10:11 ` Gleb Natapov
2012-10-03 10:57 ` Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-03 10:57 ` [Qemu-devel] " Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-03 13:19 ` Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-03 13:19 ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-03 13:27 ` Gleb Natapov
2012-10-03 13:27 ` [Qemu-devel] " Gleb Natapov
2012-10-04 10:48 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-04 10:48 ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-04 12:10 ` Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-04 12:10 ` [Qemu-devel] " Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-04 12:27 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-04 12:27 ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-04 17:21 ` Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-04 17:21 ` [Qemu-devel] " Lucas Meneghel Rodrigues
2012-10-04 17:24 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-04 17:24 ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:31 ` Marcelo Tosatti
2012-10-01 13:31 ` [Qemu-devel] " Marcelo Tosatti
2012-10-01 13:36 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:36 ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:44 ` Michael Tokarev
2012-10-01 13:44 ` [Qemu-devel] " Michael Tokarev
2012-10-01 13:48 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:48 ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:38 ` Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 13:38 ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 13:46 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 13:46 ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 14:04 ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 14:04 ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 14:34 ` [PATCH] kvm: Set default accelerator to "kvm" if the host supports it Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 14:34 ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 16:20 ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 16:20 ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 16:56 ` Aurelien Jarno
2012-10-01 16:56 ` [Qemu-devel] " Aurelien Jarno
2012-10-03 9:02 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-03 9:02 ` [Qemu-devel] " Jan Kiszka
2012-10-03 20:01 ` Blue Swirl
2012-10-03 20:01 ` [Qemu-devel] " Blue Swirl
2012-10-03 20:26 ` Peter Maydell
2012-10-03 20:26 ` Peter Maydell
2012-10-05 1:15 ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-05 1:15 ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-05 2:17 ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-05 2:17 ` [Qemu-devel] " Anthony Liguori
2012-10-05 2:24 ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-05 2:24 ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-05 8:15 ` Peter Maydell
2012-10-05 8:15 ` Peter Maydell
2012-10-08 14:03 ` Andreas Färber
2012-10-08 14:03 ` Andreas Färber
2012-10-08 14:08 ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-08 14:08 ` Alexander Graf
2012-10-01 16:43 ` Andreas Färber
2012-10-01 16:43 ` Andreas Färber
2012-10-01 16:47 ` Daniel P. Berrange
2012-10-01 16:47 ` Daniel P. Berrange
2012-10-01 19:03 ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 19:03 ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 19:25 ` Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 19:25 ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 20:07 ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-01 20:07 ` Anthony Liguori
2012-10-02 7:46 ` Markus Armbruster
2012-10-02 7:46 ` [Qemu-devel] " Markus Armbruster
2012-10-02 8:15 ` Aurelien Jarno
2012-10-02 8:15 ` Aurelien Jarno
2012-10-03 6:58 ` Michael Tokarev
2012-10-03 6:58 ` Michael Tokarev
2012-10-03 9:05 ` Jan Kiszka [this message]
2012-10-03 9:05 ` Jan Kiszka
2012-10-01 14:07 ` qemu-kvm: remove "boot=on|off" drive parameter compatibility Alexander Graf
2012-10-01 14:07 ` [Qemu-devel] " Alexander Graf
2012-10-01 14:20 ` Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 14:20 ` [Qemu-devel] " Paolo Bonzini
2012-10-01 15:39 ` Bruce Rogers
2012-10-01 15:39 ` Bruce Rogers
2012-10-02 8:14 ` Daniel P. Berrange
2012-10-02 8:14 ` [Qemu-devel] " Daniel P. Berrange
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