From: Borislav Petkov <bp-Gina5bIWoIWzQB+pC5nmwQ@public.gmane.org>
To: Matt Fleming <matt-HNK1S37rvNbeXh+fF434Mdi2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
Cc: Dave Young <dyoung-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
X86 ML <x86-DgEjT+Ai2ygdnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org>,
LKML <linux-kernel-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org>,
Borislav Petkov <bp-l3A5Bk7waGM@public.gmane.org>,
Matthew Garrett <mjg59-1xO5oi07KQx4cg9Nei1l7Q@public.gmane.org>,
"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
James Bottomley
<James.Bottomley-d9PhHud1JfjCXq6kfMZ53/egYHeGw8Jk@public.gmane.org>,
Vivek Goyal <vgoyal-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>,
linux-efi-u79uwXL29TY76Z2rM5mHXA@public.gmane.org,
fwts-devel-nLRlyDuq1AZFpShjVBNYrg@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [PATCH 12/12] EFI: Runtime services virtual mapping
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 12:30:55 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131012103054.GA13739@pd.tnic> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20131012101308.GI12321-HNK1S37rvNbeXh+fF434Mdi2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 11:13:08AM +0100, Matt Fleming wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Oct, at 03:54:44PM, Dave Young wrote:
> > Boris:
> >
> > For the boot service region overlapping problem I have another idea,
> > how about modify your mapping code to always mapping the RUNTIME region
> > (non boot service region) firstly from the efi_va, then mapping other
> > regions in order, in this way kexec 2nd kernel will be happy because
> > it does not call SetVirtualAddressMap and it does not need the boot
> > service area at all.
>
> Coalescing the runtime regions together implies that the second kernel
> would care about the fragmentation caused by unmapping the boot service
> regions - it shouldn't. We've sliced up a considerable chunk of kernel
> virtual address space (64G) and fragmentation shouldn't be an issue
> right now.
>
> Even if we run out of address space in the future due to fragmentation,
> and end up needing to coalesce runtime regions, this would be
> transparent to the kexec kernel because it's passed the memmap entries
> through setup_data.
>
> Though we are defining an ABI around the EFI address range
> (0xffffffef00000000 - 0xffffffff00000000), such that it needs to be the
> same between kernels, we must not make the layout of regions within that
> range part of the ABI. We need the freedom to change the layout in the
> future.
Basically, to sum up what Matt so eloquently explained, we will be
passing all the runtime regions *but* *not* the boot regions (because
the kexec kernel doesn't need them anyway) through setup_data to the
kexec kernel.
I.e., boot services regions is a dont-care for kexec.
And it is very important to restate that we want to reserve ourselves
the most flexible way of passing regions to the kexec kernel in case we
want to change the mapping algorithm in the future. Therefore, kexec
should simply not know anything about the VA layout of the EFI regions
but will get them spelled out through the boot header's setup_data.
This is the picture so far, AFAICT. Matt, please make a lot of noise if
I've misrepresented anything.
Thanks.
--
Regards/Gruss,
Boris.
Sent from a fat crate under my desk. Formatting is fine.
--
WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Borislav Petkov <bp@alien8.de>
To: Matt Fleming <matt@console-pimps.org>
Cc: Dave Young <dyoung@redhat.com>, X86 ML <x86@kernel.org>,
LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>, Borislav Petkov <bp@suse.de>,
Matthew Garrett <mjg59@srcf.ucam.org>,
"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
James Bottomley <James.Bottomley@HansenPartnership.com>,
Vivek Goyal <vgoyal@redhat.com>,
linux-efi@vger.kernel.org, fwts-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
Subject: Re: [PATCH 12/12] EFI: Runtime services virtual mapping
Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 12:30:55 +0200 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131012103054.GA13739@pd.tnic> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20131012101308.GI12321@console-pimps.org>
On Sat, Oct 12, 2013 at 11:13:08AM +0100, Matt Fleming wrote:
> On Sat, 12 Oct, at 03:54:44PM, Dave Young wrote:
> > Boris:
> >
> > For the boot service region overlapping problem I have another idea,
> > how about modify your mapping code to always mapping the RUNTIME region
> > (non boot service region) firstly from the efi_va, then mapping other
> > regions in order, in this way kexec 2nd kernel will be happy because
> > it does not call SetVirtualAddressMap and it does not need the boot
> > service area at all.
>
> Coalescing the runtime regions together implies that the second kernel
> would care about the fragmentation caused by unmapping the boot service
> regions - it shouldn't. We've sliced up a considerable chunk of kernel
> virtual address space (64G) and fragmentation shouldn't be an issue
> right now.
>
> Even if we run out of address space in the future due to fragmentation,
> and end up needing to coalesce runtime regions, this would be
> transparent to the kexec kernel because it's passed the memmap entries
> through setup_data.
>
> Though we are defining an ABI around the EFI address range
> (0xffffffef00000000 - 0xffffffff00000000), such that it needs to be the
> same between kernels, we must not make the layout of regions within that
> range part of the ABI. We need the freedom to change the layout in the
> future.
Basically, to sum up what Matt so eloquently explained, we will be
passing all the runtime regions *but* *not* the boot regions (because
the kexec kernel doesn't need them anyway) through setup_data to the
kexec kernel.
I.e., boot services regions is a dont-care for kexec.
And it is very important to restate that we want to reserve ourselves
the most flexible way of passing regions to the kexec kernel in case we
want to change the mapping algorithm in the future. Therefore, kexec
should simply not know anything about the VA layout of the EFI regions
but will get them spelled out through the boot header's setup_data.
This is the picture so far, AFAICT. Matt, please make a lot of noise if
I've misrepresented anything.
Thanks.
--
Regards/Gruss,
Boris.
Sent from a fat crate under my desk. Formatting is fine.
--
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2013-10-12 10:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 182+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2013-09-19 14:54 [PATCH 00/11] EFI runtime services virtual mapping Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` [PATCH 03/11] x86, pageattr: Lookup address in an arbitrary PGD Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` [PATCH 04/11] x86, pageattr: Add a PGD pagetable populating function Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <1379602494-26684-1-git-send-email-bp-Gina5bIWoIWzQB+pC5nmwQ@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-19 14:54 ` [PATCH 01/11] efi: Simplify EFI_DEBUG Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` [PATCH 02/11] efi: Remove EFI_PAGE_SHIFT and EFI_PAGE_SIZE Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <1379602494-26684-3-git-send-email-bp-Gina5bIWoIWzQB+pC5nmwQ@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-20 10:42 ` Matt Fleming
2013-09-20 10:42 ` Matt Fleming
2013-09-21 15:21 ` Leif Lindholm
2013-09-21 15:41 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-21 15:50 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-21 16:01 ` Leif Lindholm
[not found] ` <20130921160121.GI2737-GZEopFhza0F985/tl1ce8aaDwS/vmuI7@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-21 16:03 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-21 16:03 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20130921154143.GC1587-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-21 15:59 ` Leif Lindholm
2013-09-21 15:59 ` Leif Lindholm
2013-09-19 14:54 ` [PATCH 05/11] x86, pageattr: Add a PUD pagetable populating function Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` [PATCH 09/11] x86, pageattr: Add last levels of error path Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-20 7:29 ` [PATCH 00/11] EFI runtime services virtual mapping Dave Young
2013-09-20 7:29 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20130920072904.GA21922-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-20 8:19 ` Dave Young
2013-09-20 8:19 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20130920081940.GC21922-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-20 9:33 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-20 9:33 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-20 10:07 ` Dave Young
2013-09-20 9:05 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-20 9:05 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20130920090544.GA9574-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-20 9:44 ` Matt Fleming
2013-09-20 9:44 ` Matt Fleming
2013-09-20 9:49 ` Matt Fleming
2013-09-20 9:49 ` Matt Fleming
[not found] ` <20130920094913.GG4785-HNK1S37rvNbeXh+fF434Mdi2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-20 10:02 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-20 10:02 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-20 11:51 ` Dave Young
2013-09-20 11:51 ` Dave Young
2013-09-20 12:29 ` Matt Fleming
2013-09-20 12:29 ` Matt Fleming
[not found] ` <20130920122915.GB21381-HNK1S37rvNbeXh+fF434Mdi2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-20 14:04 ` Dave Young
2013-09-20 14:04 ` Dave Young
2013-09-19 14:54 ` [PATCH 06/11] x86, pageattr: Add a PMD pagetable populating function Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` [PATCH 07/11] x86, pageattr: Add a PTE " Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` [PATCH 08/11] x86, pageattr: Add a PUD error unwinding path Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` [PATCH 10/11] x86, cpa: Map in an arbitrary pgd Borislav Petkov
2013-09-19 14:54 ` [PATCH 11/11] EFI: Runtime services virtual mapping Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <1379602494-26684-12-git-send-email-bp-Gina5bIWoIWzQB+pC5nmwQ@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-21 11:39 ` [PATCH -v2] " Borislav Petkov
2013-09-21 11:39 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20130921113929.GB1587-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-22 12:35 ` Dave Young
2013-09-22 12:35 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20130922123515.GA7476-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-22 13:37 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-22 13:37 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20130922133722.GC28718-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-22 14:00 ` Dave Young
2013-09-22 14:00 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20130922140038.GB7476-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-22 14:31 ` Dave Young
2013-09-22 14:31 ` Dave Young
2013-09-22 15:27 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-09-22 15:27 ` H. Peter Anvin
[not found] ` <1ba7eca6-419c-4181-9927-9ba0927a6abf-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-22 16:38 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-22 16:38 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-23 5:45 ` Dave Young
2013-09-23 5:45 ` Dave Young
2013-09-24 2:52 ` Dave Young
2013-09-24 2:52 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20130924025209.GA5561-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-24 3:06 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-09-24 3:06 ` H. Peter Anvin
[not found] ` <2d27a1bc-eabf-4d45-8303-27ae58511b11-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-24 4:57 ` Dave Young
2013-09-24 4:57 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20130924045705.GB5561-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-24 4:58 ` Dave Young
2013-09-24 4:58 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20130924045818.GC5561-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-24 5:23 ` Dave Young
2013-09-24 5:23 ` Dave Young
2013-09-24 8:57 ` Dave Young
2013-09-24 9:43 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-24 9:43 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <bd9528a453bce9b52ad4be75dcc0f034.squirrel-Fq0NhQX/+7ild1e1puMNDg@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-24 10:01 ` Dave Young
2013-09-24 10:01 ` Dave Young
2013-09-24 12:45 ` Dave Young
2013-09-24 12:45 ` Dave Young
2013-10-02 10:04 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-02 10:04 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131002100426.GB20568-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-02 15:43 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-10-02 15:43 ` H. Peter Anvin
[not found] ` <524C3F38.6050507-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-02 17:05 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-02 17:05 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131002170522.GA20647-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-02 17:32 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-10-02 17:32 ` H. Peter Anvin
[not found] ` <524C58A3.4090704-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-02 18:42 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-02 18:42 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131002184229.GE20568-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-02 18:46 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-10-02 18:46 ` H. Peter Anvin
[not found] ` <524C6A14.40905-YMNOUZJC4hwAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-04 9:42 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-04 9:42 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131004094247.GA6796-K5JNixvcfoxupOikMc4+xw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-04 14:43 ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-10-04 14:43 ` H. Peter Anvin
[not found] ` <89e0284e-89b5-42ad-8120-128ef1bf0152-2ueSQiBKiTY7tOexoI0I+QC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-04 14:50 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-04 14:50 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-23 8:45 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-23 8:45 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-25 9:24 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-25 9:24 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-23 5:47 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20130923054741.GC7007-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-23 6:29 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-09-23 6:29 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20130923062947.GA2527-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-09-23 7:08 ` Dave Young
2013-09-23 7:08 ` Dave Young
2013-10-08 16:45 ` [PATCH 00/11] EFI runtime " Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131008164551.GB16793-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-08 16:47 ` [PATCH 11/12] efi: Add an efi= kernel command line parameter Borislav Petkov
2013-10-08 16:47 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-28 11:02 ` Matt Fleming
2013-10-28 11:10 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-08 16:48 ` [PATCH 12/12] EFI: Runtime services virtual mapping Borislav Petkov
2013-10-08 16:48 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131008164831.GD16793-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-10 8:06 ` Dave Young
2013-10-10 8:06 ` Dave Young
2013-10-10 8:14 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20131010081434.GB3692-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-10 8:58 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-10 8:58 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131010085827.GA9929-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-10 12:34 ` Matt Fleming
2013-10-10 12:34 ` Matt Fleming
[not found] ` <20131010123453.GA12321-HNK1S37rvNbeXh+fF434Mdi2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-11 6:24 ` Dave Young
2013-10-11 6:24 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20131011062437.GA14115-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-11 7:41 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-11 7:41 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131011074144.GA18719-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-12 7:54 ` Dave Young
2013-10-12 7:54 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20131012075443.GD7550-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-12 10:13 ` Matt Fleming
2013-10-12 10:13 ` Matt Fleming
[not found] ` <20131012101308.GI12321-HNK1S37rvNbeXh+fF434Mdi2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-12 10:30 ` Borislav Petkov [this message]
2013-10-12 10:30 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131012103054.GA13739-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-13 3:11 ` Dave Young
2013-10-13 3:11 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20131013031126.GB1914-4/PLUo9XfK+sDdueE5tM26fLeoKvNuZc@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-13 9:25 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-13 9:25 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131013092521.GA22866-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-14 15:58 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-14 15:58 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131014155851.GJ4009-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-21 12:47 ` Dave Young
2013-10-21 12:47 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20131021124739.GA4515-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-21 13:37 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-21 13:37 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131021133741.GA5716-K5JNixvcfoxupOikMc4+xw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-21 15:04 ` Dave Young
2013-10-21 15:04 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20131021150426.GB4515-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-22 11:18 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-22 11:18 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131022111857.GA10660-K5JNixvcfoxupOikMc4+xw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-23 2:17 ` Dave Young
2013-10-23 2:17 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20131023021730.GE4594-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-23 12:25 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-23 12:25 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131023122531.GA15848-K5JNixvcfoxupOikMc4+xw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-23 12:37 ` Matthew Garrett
2013-10-23 12:37 ` Matthew Garrett
2013-10-23 12:51 ` Dave Young
2013-10-23 12:51 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20131023125131.GA5552-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-23 13:11 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-23 13:11 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-26 15:50 ` Matt Fleming
2013-10-26 15:50 ` Matt Fleming
2013-10-13 3:06 ` Dave Young
2013-10-11 10:27 ` Matt Fleming
2013-10-11 10:27 ` Matt Fleming
[not found] ` <20131011102706.GE12321-HNK1S37rvNbeXh+fF434Mdi2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-11 13:42 ` Dave Young
2013-10-11 13:42 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <643121905.4545046.1381498954428.JavaMail.root-H+wXaHxf7aLQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-12 2:14 ` Dave Young
2013-10-12 2:14 ` Dave Young
2013-10-14 15:57 ` Peter Jones
2013-10-16 6:27 ` Dave Young
2013-10-28 11:22 ` Matt Fleming
2013-10-28 11:22 ` Matt Fleming
[not found] ` <20131028112246.GK1982-HNK1S37rvNbeXh+fF434Mdi2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-28 16:00 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-28 16:00 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-29 6:47 ` Dave Young
2013-10-29 6:47 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20131029064720.GA16009-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-29 9:40 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-29 9:40 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131029094033.GA10972-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-30 9:32 ` Dave Young
2013-10-30 9:32 ` Dave Young
[not found] ` <20131030093227.GA5791-je1gSBvt1TcFLmT5oZ11vB/sF2h8X+2i0E9HWUfgJXw@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-30 10:45 ` Borislav Petkov
2013-10-30 10:45 ` Borislav Petkov
[not found] ` <20131030104526.GA13290-fF5Pk5pvG8Y@public.gmane.org>
2013-10-31 7:07 ` Dave Young
2013-10-31 7:07 ` Dave Young
2013-10-14 13:04 ` [PATCH 00/11] EFI runtime " Matt Fleming
2013-10-14 13:04 ` Matt Fleming
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