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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Alex Shi <alex.shi@linaro.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Fengguang Wu <fengguang.wu@intel.com>,
	H Peter Anvin <hpa@zytor.com>, Linux-X86 <x86@kernel.org>,
	Linux-MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/4] Fix ebizzy performance regression due to X86 TLB range flush v2
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 14:44:49 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131216134449.GA3034@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20131216125923.GS11295@suse.de>


* Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de> wrote:

> > Whatever we did right in v3.4 we want to do in v3.13 as well - or 
> > at least understand it.
> 
> Also agreed. I started a bisection before answering this mail. It 
> would be cooler and potentially faster to figure it out from direct 
> analysis but bisection is reliable and less guesswork.

Trying to guess can potentially last a _lot_ longer than a generic, 
no-assumptions bisection ...

The symptoms could point to anything: scheduler, locking details, some 
stupid little change in a wakeup sequence somewhere, etc.

It might even be a non-deterministic effect of some timing change 
causing the workload 'just' to avoid a common point of preemption and 
not scheduling as much - and become more unfair and thus certain 
threads lasting longer to finish.

Does the benchmark execute a fixed amount of transactions per thread? 

That might artificially increase the numeric regression: with more 
threads it 'magnifies' any unfairness effects because slower threads 
will become slower, faster threads will become faster, as the thread 
count increases.

[ That in itself is somewhat artificial, because real workloads tend 
  to balance between threads dynamically and don't insist on keeping 
  the fastest threads idle near the end of a run. It does not
  invalidate the complaint about the unfairness itself, obviously. ]

	Ingo

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>
Cc: Linus Torvalds <torvalds@linux-foundation.org>,
	Alex Shi <alex.shi@linaro.org>,
	Thomas Gleixner <tglx@linutronix.de>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	Fengguang Wu <fengguang.wu@intel.com>,
	H Peter Anvin <hpa@zytor.com>, Linux-X86 <x86@kernel.org>,
	Linux-MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>,
	Peter Zijlstra <a.p.zijlstra@chello.nl>
Subject: Re: [PATCH 0/4] Fix ebizzy performance regression due to X86 TLB range flush v2
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2013 14:44:49 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20131216134449.GA3034@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20131216125923.GS11295@suse.de>


* Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de> wrote:

> > Whatever we did right in v3.4 we want to do in v3.13 as well - or 
> > at least understand it.
> 
> Also agreed. I started a bisection before answering this mail. It 
> would be cooler and potentially faster to figure it out from direct 
> analysis but bisection is reliable and less guesswork.

Trying to guess can potentially last a _lot_ longer than a generic, 
no-assumptions bisection ...

The symptoms could point to anything: scheduler, locking details, some 
stupid little change in a wakeup sequence somewhere, etc.

It might even be a non-deterministic effect of some timing change 
causing the workload 'just' to avoid a common point of preemption and 
not scheduling as much - and become more unfair and thus certain 
threads lasting longer to finish.

Does the benchmark execute a fixed amount of transactions per thread? 

That might artificially increase the numeric regression: with more 
threads it 'magnifies' any unfairness effects because slower threads 
will become slower, faster threads will become faster, as the thread 
count increases.

[ That in itself is somewhat artificial, because real workloads tend 
  to balance between threads dynamically and don't insist on keeping 
  the fastest threads idle near the end of a run. It does not
  invalidate the complaint about the unfairness itself, obviously. ]

	Ingo

  reply	other threads:[~2013-12-16 13:44 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 71+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2013-12-13 20:01 [PATCH 0/4] Fix ebizzy performance regression due to X86 TLB range flush v2 Mel Gorman
2013-12-13 20:01 ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-13 20:01 ` [PATCH 1/4] x86: mm: Clean up inconsistencies when flushing TLB ranges Mel Gorman
2013-12-13 20:01   ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-13 20:01 ` [PATCH 2/4] x86: mm: Account for TLB flushes only when debugging Mel Gorman
2013-12-13 20:01   ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-13 20:01 ` [PATCH 3/4] x86: mm: Change tlb_flushall_shift for IvyBridge Mel Gorman
2013-12-13 20:01   ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-13 20:01 ` [PATCH 4/4] x86: mm: Eliminate redundant page table walk during TLB range flushing Mel Gorman
2013-12-13 20:01   ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-13 21:16 ` [PATCH 0/4] Fix ebizzy performance regression due to X86 TLB range flush v2 Linus Torvalds
2013-12-13 21:16   ` Linus Torvalds
2013-12-13 22:38   ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-12-13 22:38     ` H. Peter Anvin
2013-12-16 10:39     ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-16 10:39       ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-16 17:17       ` Linus Torvalds
2013-12-16 17:17         ` Linus Torvalds
2013-12-17  9:55         ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-17  9:55           ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-15 15:55   ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-15 15:55     ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-15 16:17     ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-15 16:17       ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-15 18:34     ` Linus Torvalds
2013-12-15 18:34       ` Linus Torvalds
2013-12-16 11:16       ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-16 11:16         ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-16 10:24     ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-16 10:24       ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-16 12:59       ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-16 12:59         ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-16 13:44         ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2013-12-16 13:44           ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-17  9:21           ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-17  9:21             ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-17  9:26             ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-12-17  9:26               ` Peter Zijlstra
2013-12-17 11:00             ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-17 11:00               ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-17 14:32               ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-17 14:32                 ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-17 14:42                 ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-17 14:42                   ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-17 17:54                   ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-17 17:54                     ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-18 10:24                     ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-18 10:24                       ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-19 14:24               ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-19 14:24                 ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-19 16:49                 ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-19 16:49                   ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-20 11:13                   ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-20 11:13                     ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-20 11:18                     ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-20 11:18                       ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-20 12:00                       ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-20 12:00                         ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-20 12:20                         ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-20 12:20                           ` Ingo Molnar
2013-12-20 13:55                           ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-20 13:55                             ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-18 10:32             ` [tip:sched/core] sched: Assign correct scheduling domain to ' sd_llc' tip-bot for Mel Gorman
2013-12-18  7:28 ` [PATCH 0/4] Fix ebizzy performance regression due to X86 TLB range flush v2 Fengguang Wu
2013-12-18  7:28   ` Fengguang Wu
2013-12-19 14:34   ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-19 14:34     ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-20 15:51     ` Fengguang Wu
2013-12-20 16:44       ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-20 16:44         ` Mel Gorman
2013-12-21 15:49         ` Fengguang Wu

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