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From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>
Cc: Xishi Qiu <qiuxishi@huawei.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"Luck, Tony" <tony.luck@intel.com>,
	Hanjun Guo <guohanjun@huawei.com>, Xiexiuqi <xiexiuqi@huawei.com>,
	leon@leon.nu, Kamezawa Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Naoya Horiguchi <n-horiguchi@ah.jp.nec.com>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>, Linux MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC v2 PATCH 0/8] mm: mirrored memory support for page buddy allocations
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:46:54 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150630104654.GA24932@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150630094149.GA6812@suse.de>


* Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de> wrote:

> [...]
> 
> Basically, overall I feel this series is the wrong approach but not knowing who 
> the users are making is much harder to judge. I strongly suspect that if 
> mirrored memory is to be properly used then it needs to be available before the 
> page allocator is even active. Once active, there needs to be controlled access 
> for allocation requests that are really critical to mirror and not just all 
> kernel allocations. None of that would use a MIGRATE_TYPE approach. It would be 
> alterations to the bootmem allocator and access to an explicit reserve that is 
> not accounted for as "free memory" and accessed via an explicit GFP flag.

So I think the main goal is to avoid kernel crashes when a #MC memory fault 
arrives on a piece of memory that is owned by the kernel.

In that sense 'protecting' all kernel allocations is natural: we don't know how to 
recover from faults that affect kernel memory.

We do know how to recover from faults that affect user-space memory alone.

So if a mechanism is in place that prioritizes 3 groups of allocators:

  - non-recoverable memory (kernel allocations mostly)

  - high priority user memory (critical apps that must never fail)

  - recoverable user memory (non-dirty caches that can simply be dropped,
    non-critical apps, etc.)

then we can make use of this hardware feature. I suspect this series tries to move 
in that direction.

Thanks,

	Ingo

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WARNING: multiple messages have this Message-ID (diff)
From: Ingo Molnar <mingo@kernel.org>
To: Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de>
Cc: Xishi Qiu <qiuxishi@huawei.com>,
	Andrew Morton <akpm@linux-foundation.org>,
	"H. Peter Anvin" <hpa@zytor.com>,
	"Luck, Tony" <tony.luck@intel.com>,
	Hanjun Guo <guohanjun@huawei.com>, Xiexiuqi <xiexiuqi@huawei.com>,
	leon@leon.nu, Kamezawa Hiroyuki <kamezawa.hiroyu@jp.fujitsu.com>,
	Dave Hansen <dave.hansen@intel.com>,
	Naoya Horiguchi <n-horiguchi@ah.jp.nec.com>,
	Vlastimil Babka <vbabka@suse.cz>, Linux MM <linux-mm@kvack.org>,
	LKML <linux-kernel@vger.kernel.org>
Subject: Re: [RFC v2 PATCH 0/8] mm: mirrored memory support for page buddy allocations
Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2015 12:46:54 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <20150630104654.GA24932@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20150630094149.GA6812@suse.de>


* Mel Gorman <mgorman@suse.de> wrote:

> [...]
> 
> Basically, overall I feel this series is the wrong approach but not knowing who 
> the users are making is much harder to judge. I strongly suspect that if 
> mirrored memory is to be properly used then it needs to be available before the 
> page allocator is even active. Once active, there needs to be controlled access 
> for allocation requests that are really critical to mirror and not just all 
> kernel allocations. None of that would use a MIGRATE_TYPE approach. It would be 
> alterations to the bootmem allocator and access to an explicit reserve that is 
> not accounted for as "free memory" and accessed via an explicit GFP flag.

So I think the main goal is to avoid kernel crashes when a #MC memory fault 
arrives on a piece of memory that is owned by the kernel.

In that sense 'protecting' all kernel allocations is natural: we don't know how to 
recover from faults that affect kernel memory.

We do know how to recover from faults that affect user-space memory alone.

So if a mechanism is in place that prioritizes 3 groups of allocators:

  - non-recoverable memory (kernel allocations mostly)

  - high priority user memory (critical apps that must never fail)

  - recoverable user memory (non-dirty caches that can simply be dropped,
    non-critical apps, etc.)

then we can make use of this hardware feature. I suspect this series tries to move 
in that direction.

Thanks,

	Ingo

  reply	other threads:[~2015-06-30 10:47 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 58+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-06-27  2:19 [RFC v2 PATCH 0/8] mm: mirrored memory support for page buddy allocations Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:19 ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:23 ` [RFC v2 PATCH 1/8] mm: add a new config to manage the code Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:23   ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-29  6:50   ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-29  6:50     ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-30  2:52     ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-30  2:52       ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:24 ` [RFC v2 PATCH 2/8] mm: introduce MIGRATE_MIRROR to manage the mirrored pages Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:24   ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-29  7:32   ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-29  7:32     ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-30  2:45     ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-30  2:45       ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-30  7:53       ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-30  7:53         ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-30  9:22         ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-30  9:22           ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:24 ` [RFC v2 PATCH 3/8] mm: find mirrored memory in memblock Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:24   ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:25 ` [RFC v2 PATCH 4/8] mm: add mirrored memory to buddy system Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:25   ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-29  7:39   ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-29  7:39     ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-27  2:26 ` [RFC v2 PATCH 5/8] mm: introduce a new zone_stat_item NR_FREE_MIRROR_PAGES Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:26   ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:27 ` [RFC v2 PATCH 6/8] mm: add free mirrored pages info Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:27   ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:27 ` [RFC v2 PATCH 7/8] mm: add the buddy system interface Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:27   ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-29 23:11   ` Luck, Tony
2015-06-29 23:11     ` Luck, Tony
2015-06-30  1:01     ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-30  1:01       ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-30  1:31       ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-30  1:31         ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-30  2:01         ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-30  2:01           ` Kamezawa Hiroyuki
2015-06-27  2:28 ` [RFC v2 PATCH 8/8] mm: add the PCP interface Xishi Qiu
2015-06-27  2:28   ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-29 15:19 ` [RFC v2 PATCH 0/8] mm: mirrored memory support for page buddy allocations Dave Hansen
2015-06-29 15:19   ` Dave Hansen
2015-06-30  1:26   ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-30  1:26     ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-30  1:52     ` Dave Hansen
2015-06-30  1:52       ` Dave Hansen
2015-06-30  2:48       ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-30  2:48         ` Xishi Qiu
2015-06-30  9:41 ` Mel Gorman
2015-06-30  9:41   ` Mel Gorman
2015-06-30 10:46   ` Ingo Molnar [this message]
2015-06-30 10:46     ` Ingo Molnar
2015-06-30 11:53     ` Mel Gorman
2015-06-30 11:53       ` Mel Gorman
2015-06-30 18:12       ` Luck, Tony
2015-06-30 18:12         ` Luck, Tony
2015-07-13  4:56       ` Xishi Qiu
2015-07-13  4:56         ` Xishi Qiu

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